Solenoid to starter cable wire

[firefighter1]

I have a 2012 Polaris Rush 600 for my son. It has electric start and seems to not want to start on a cold engine but will start after the engine has been running. Some of the things I have done so far, new battery last season and kept on tender all summer. I did remove it and take it in and load tested good. The battery reads on multimeter 12.8 Vdc and when running 14.4 yesterday. I also put in a new solenoid as they are cheap, during the summer I replaced the bendix as it was bad. I also ended up getting a new flex shaft as it was welded to the bendix. Starter was removed and bench tested good. What it does sometimes is the bendix engages the ring gear but does seem to spin it fast enough to start the sled. I stopped and talked to my local dealer yesterday and he suggested replacing the cables that run from the battery to solenoid and then from solenoid to the starter. He said Polaris used fairly small gage wire from the factory and it doesn’t transfer the current as efficiently. He said they did this a fair amount on Pro-ride chassis over the years to help with cold weather stating. Has anyone ever done this and do you think it helped? I have no volt loss going from the battery to the solenoid, I haven’t tested from the solenoid to starter yet but I will. Dealer said just pull the wire out which is very accessible and have a auto parts store make one with the thickest gage wire that will still fit inside the plastic sleeve the wire goes in. Sorry for the long post. I will say this is my first Polaris I have owned and they have a ways to go on their starter systems.

 

[euphoric1]

firefighter1, I had a 2002 600 Polaris touring, and I now have a 2017 eltigre 8000 and 2009 f8, I would highly doubt you need to increase the wire diameter, unless someone chimes in and says yes had to do the same, I think that may be a waste of your time and money, What kind of battery did you purchase? rather than using a tender just put full charge on battery when you put it away and do again when you take out of storage, disconnecting will prevent any parasitic draw the sled may have when it is sitting idle between seasons. Testing a battery with a volt meter only verifies the battery has voltage, a bad battery will still read good voltage, the most accurate test is knowing what the reserve capacity is of the battery, and being you have the problem when it is cold Id be willing to bet that even with a new battery, the battery may be your issue and by running the unit you are recharging the battery giving what it needs to restart when you shut it off, or you may have an excessive parasitic draw on the battery when the unit is not running, also make sure your grounds are good, not just at the battery terminal, the smallest amount of corrosion can cause all sorts of issues, as far as increasing cable size, I think the manufacturer would have done its homework and has the proper size cable on sled needed for starter operation. one last thing don't cheap out on batteries, best one out there for outdoor powersports in my opinion...Yuasa. A certain batteries pl** company has one claims to be made by them to their spec is 3 pounds lighter and I guarantee its not 3 pounds lighter on plastic, had to replace my battery on my eltigre last year for same reason, but batteries... you get what you pay for. I would check reserve capacity on battery, grounds and for excessive parasitic draw when sled is not running.

 

[firefighter1]

There are no draws on the battery sitting. I do you check reserve capacity? Grounds all check out good as far as I can tell. All wires are tight also, I have read that these sleds needed new batteries every season so it is possible battery is bad. I did buy a Yuasa battery and it is fully charged. I won’t spend too much more time on this issue as we can always pull start it the first start of the day. I will move him back to Skidoo next season or the one after, whenever I decide to get a new one. Thanks

 

[euphoric1]

There are no draws on the battery sitting. I do you check reserve capacity? Grounds all check out good as far as I can tell. All wires are tight also, I have read that these sleds needed new batteries every season so it is possible battery is bad. I did buy a Yuasa battery and it is fully charged. I won’t spend too much more time on this issue as we can always pull start it the first start of the day. I will move him back to Skidoo next season or the one after, whenever I decide to get a new one. Thanks

at my shop I have an OTC tester that either says battery pass or fail, and I also have a snap on tester that actually tells you the percentage of reserve/battery capacity, voltage and cca, what is interesting you can have a battery that has 12+ volts with volt meter, charge it with a battery charger test it and some testers will tell you that the battery passes, some testers don't know the difference between a surface charge and reserve, that is why I like the snap on tester as it will tell you exactly what is going on with battery, just had a battery off of an generator, the snap on tester said it had 12.6 volts 225 cca but only 1% capacity, never rely on a volt meter or simple load tester as neither one will tell you true integrity of battery, im sure the reason why it starts after running it is its using the surface charge being put into it while machine is running but battery cannot retain or hold charge, hope this helps you.

 

[firefighter1]

Thanks for your input, it probably is the battery and I can get a new one under warranty. What makes me mad is a battery should last more than 10 months especially if I pull it out of the sled and keep it on a tender all summer.

 

[tealracing16]

As weird as it sounds I had my atv battery on a tender during the winter (I use it to plow) and after a couple of months the battery was shot. Put a new one in (last January) never hooked up the tender and it's never been dead since. I know at work people will leave chargers on all the time and cook the snot out of them killing them. If your tender is constantly charging it will kill it. In my boat I have the same battery from 07 and all I do is charge it end of summer then unhook everything from it. Never had to charge it in the spring.

 

[euphoric1]

As weird as it sounds I had my atv battery on a tender during the winter (I use it to plow) and after a couple of months the battery was shot. Put a new one in (last January) never hooked up the tender and it's never been dead since. I know at work people will leave chargers on all the time and cook the snot out of them killing them. If your tender is constantly charging it will kill it. In my boat I have the same battery from 07 and all I do is charge it end of summer then unhook everything from it. Never had to charge it in the spring.

NOT a big fan of battery tenders either, completely agree...put full charge on battery before storing, disconnect cables,and then I usually give them a charge before putting them back into use after storage, when put mustang away, just disconnect battery same battery last 5 years and not stored where heated, have twin 1000 amp batteries in boat for last 5 years still good and do so on my sleds as well, had a battery fail last year in 17 eltigre but had 3 years on one in f1000, no tenders

 

[firefighter1]

Yeah maybe that’s it, I will have my son ride it a few times early here and see what happens otherwise I will get a new battery. I’ve never had an issue with the battery tender but this battery was hooked up to a new one I got and maybe it did fry it. Sitting in the sled the batteries at 12.8 and running it’s 14.4. I tried checking it while cranking and if I did it correct it’s about 9.6 to 10.3, it was bouncing around and not sure I did it right either.

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

I disagree on the batteries - they're essentially all the same, made by the same manufacturer with a different retail name. A spec is a spec, and all have diff ratings, that I'll give you. You can get a bad, brand new battery - rare, but it happens. My only experience with starting issues was on a 2008 IQ 600. I had the same thing, where sometimes the starter would engage, and other times it was dead. Battery went on charger between use and gave a full charge reading. Fortunately I had a pull start, so it wasn't more than an annoyance. Usually it started fine when warmed up, but I can't remember for sure.

Finally I took it to the dealer because it was still under warranty and it annoyed me. Dealer told me they filed down the terminal connections, and reattached what was a LOOSE connection to the battery. As I recall, I couldn't believe it, but never had a problem again. Pretty difficult to get a wrench on some of those battery connections with limited space.

 

[G]

I don't believe it is possible to 'fry' a battery using an actual Battery Tender brand charger. These have a computer that sense battery condition and charge accordingly. That is why they cost more than your run of the mill 'dumb' 2 amp trickle charger.
A battery in a snowmobile or a 4 wheeler takes quite a bit more abuse than a battery in your car or pick up. I ride my snowmobiles and 4 wheelers over rough terrain at speed. As far as suspensions although we have come a long ways snowmobiles and 4 wheelers still take a much bigger beating than vehicles that travel down smooth roads. Lead acid batteries have been of the same design for years. They simply do not hold up to repeated shocks. They basically fall apart inside. Then they are shot whether they are 10 months old or 3 years old. If I get two years on a snowmobile battery I am happy.
Gel Batteries were a thing a few years ago. Also I have tried dry cell batteries like they used in the early NASA years. Both cost more than lead acid batteries. Dry cells don't care about cold temps as much. Now we can buy powder batteries. Earth X will sell you a battery for your sled for about $250 bucks that only weighs about 4 lbs. The mountain guys like them. For most guys just go buy a $70 Yuasa every few years and shine up all your connections. Don't overthink things.

 

[old abe]

I don't believe it is possible to 'fry' a battery using an actual Battery Tender brand charger. These have a computer that sense battery condition and charge accordingly. That is why they cost more than your run of the mill 'dumb' 2 amp trickle charger.
A battery in a snowmobile or a 4 wheeler takes quite a bit more abuse than a battery in your car or pick up. I ride my snowmobiles and 4 wheelers over rough terrain at speed. As far as suspensions although we have come a long ways snowmobiles and 4 wheelers still take a much bigger beating than vehicles that travel down smooth roads. Lead acid batteries have been of the same design for years. They simply do not hold up to repeated shocks. They basically fall apart inside. Then they are shot whether they are 10 months old or 3 years old. If I get two years on a snowmobile battery I am happy.
Gel Batteries were a thing a few years ago. Also I have tried dry cell batteries like they used in the early NASA years. Both cost more than lead acid batteries. Dry cells don't care about cold temps as much. Now we can buy powder batteries. Earth X will sell you a battery for your sled for about $250 bucks that only weighs about 4 lbs. The mountain guys like them. For most guys just go buy a $70 Yuasa every few years and shine up all your connections. Don't overthink things.

X2

 

[stormrider3]

Try removing the belt on a cold engine, and see if it spins better, (starts) Might be the belt drag on the clutch.

 

[tealracing16]

Grub and old abe - I agree 100% with that so I bought a Bettery Tender brand one. The battery could've been on its last legs, the board on the charger could've been bad from the start etc. I thought I'd throw my 2 cents out about charging them before storage then unhooking them, never doing anything else. Everyone's choice.

 

[firefighter1]

Funny, I was watching a review from Snow Trax magazine on YouTube last night and when he went to start the Polaris which was a 2019 the starter made a grinding noise just like mine. The narrator stated that you would think by now they could make a starter than doesn’t sound like a bucket of bolts when starting. My point I guess is that it is normal for a Polaris to sound that way. I’m going to try a little throttle when I try to start it next, I have read that may help. I am going to test how much current is getting through to the starter next week. After that I’m done chasing it. Only a season or two left with this sled and I will sell it. Back to all Skidoo after that!

 

[toddspolaris]

If battery is ok , starter maybe getting weak, when the engine is cold it will turn over harder than a warm engine, seen it many of times

 

[firefighter1]

Battery was new last season and kept on a tender all offseason. I’m going to do some testing under load and see what I come up with. I can use the warranty and get a new battery which I think I’m going to do. I’m also going to put in a thicker gage wire from the solenoid to the starter to carry more current per the dealers recommendation. After that I’m going to call it good, if my son has to pull start the first start of the day so be it. On a side note I did buy a new starter and tried it with no change so I returned that, new solenoid since they are cheap. This whole process starter because I went to replace the starter bendix and then had to replace the flex shaft as well. In the end it has to be the battery that maybe is just bad. I will let everyone know how it turns out with the new battery and a thicker cable. My first Polaris has not been too bad but the starting system sucks in my opinion, like I said when I upgrade my sled I will sell this Polaris and put my son on my 2017 Skidoo Renegade.

 

[firefighter1]

I did some testing today and have some questions. My battery static tested 12.6 vdc, my big terminal on the solenoid from the battery tested the same which make sense. The other big one was 0 which it should be until the solenoid is energized. So when I energized it was 8.8 vdc which is too low by everything I have read to start, I also tested the starter from the solenoid and that was the same at 8.8 vdc. I ran out of time and did not test the battery under load which I will do tomorrow but I’m going to assume it is going to test bad which points me towards a bad battery. My question is this, when I test both small terminals on the solenoid they both have voltage which is the same as the battery. Isn’t on of those supposed to be a ground and shouldn’t the other read 0 until the key sends power? I admit I’m not exactly sure how this thing works, if one maybe becomes ground at the point the key is turned. I feel the battery is most of my problem but I also feel maybe my key switch or the wiring from the key isn’t working correctly either. Any knowledge on this subject would be good, I thought I understood but apparently I do not. Thanks

 

[euphoric1]

I did some testing today and have some questions. My battery static tested 12.6 vdc, my big terminal on the solenoid from the battery tested the same which make sense. The other big one was 0 which it should be until the solenoid is energized. So when I energized it was 8.8 vdc which is too low by everything I have read to start, I also tested the starter from the solenoid and that was the same at 8.8 vdc. I ran out of time and did not test the battery under load which I will do tomorrow but I’m going to assume it is going to test bad which points me towards a bad battery. My question is this, when I test both small terminals on the solenoid they both have voltage which is the same as the battery. Isn’t on of those supposed to be a ground and shouldn’t the other read 0 until the key sends power? I admit I’m not exactly sure how this thing works, if one maybe becomes ground at the point the key is turned. I feel the battery is most of my problem but I also feel maybe my key switch or the wiring from the key isn’t working correctly either. Any knowledge on this subject would be good, I thought I understood but apparently I do not. Thanks

firefighter1, yes you are correct if a solenoid has the 2 main posts, one from battery and one to starter and 2 posts with 2 smaller wires that means that the solenoid is not grounded through its mount and relies on completion of ground by the electrical circuit of the sled, I will admit I am not sure what circuits on the sled complete the ground but yes one should be hot and one should complete ground to make solenoid function correctly, in my industry that is usually a sign of the circuit trying to find or there is inadequate ground, you could determine which of the two wires should be the hot wire when key is in start position, disconnect the other one and just jumper that terminal to ground and see if your voltage changes at all, also did you buy an OEM solenoid or aftermarket, just be weary of some of the "cheap" aftermarket components especially electrical items, with that much of a static voltage drop, load test battery and as far as lack of ground at small terminal I would find out what components exactly between the key switch and solenoid there are that complete the ground because if you have voltage at both you either have an issue in that circuit or inadequate ground. Did you buy an OEM starter? in my business have tried aftermarket and steer way clear of them, not worth it. Another thing too if you are picking up voltage in a circuit where there should be ground, be careful because there may be voltage at other points that should be grounded and aren't going to be resilient to having voltage where it shouldn't be. one other thought, possibly a wire wore through or rubbing against frame somewhere? hope this helps and sorry I cant point a finger directly at your problem.

 

[firefighter1]

Thanks for the help, I believe I’m getting closer to figuring this out and finding the problem. I have someone who understands this stuff a little better than me and he is going to test some things as well. I really think it is a grounding issue at this point but where is the question. I think I did buy an aftermarket solenoid but I still have the OEM one as well and both test the same so I think I can rule that out. I also have reinstalled the factory starter which is still good and sent back the one I bought. This whole problem shouldn’t bother me so much since it is the sled my son rides but my ocd is getting the best of me, plus I will hopefully learn something new along the way. I did just change out his track and replaced all the bearing on the driveshaft and jackshaft but I don’t see how that would have any affect on it and it did this before as well. When I have more info I will report back with my findings and hopefully fix my issue and maybe help someone else.

 

[euphoric1]

Thanks for the help, I believe I’m getting closer to figuring this out and finding the problem. I have someone who understands this stuff a little better than me and he is going to test some things as well. I really think it is a grounding issue at this point but where is the question. I think I did buy an aftermarket solenoid but I still have the OEM one as well and both test the same so I think I can rule that out. I also have reinstalled the factory starter which is still good and sent back the one I bought. This whole problem shouldn’t bother me so much since it is the sled my son rides but my ocd is getting the best of me, plus I will hopefully learn something new along the way. I did just change out his track and replaced all the bearing on the driveshaft and jackshaft but I don’t see how that would have any affect on it and it did this before as well. When I have more info I will report back with my findings and hopefully fix my issue and maybe help someone else.

if you can get ahold of one a wire map may help greatly trying to track where you are not completing ground between the switch and the solenoid and with tracking and testing wires and circuits you need to, instead or driving yourself nuts. let me know what you find!