Theories on this winter

C

Cirrus_Driver

Guest
DUst bowels of the past were NOT wide spread as rising temps are and droughts are NOW

farmers struggle to make crops grow now more than ever
we also have LESS farmland in the USA period
here in PA< as to just 30 yrs ago, we have less than 50% of the farm land we once had!

when your lively hood depends on NORMAL weather, and your NOT getting it, I think it effects you WAY more than guys that just post things that don't live by weather and what its NOT doing or doing TOO much of!

weather IMO again is still changing and NOT for the better or normal

billions of humans that produce heat, has to have some effect no?

Incorrect - Erroneous.
 
G

G

Guest
DUst bowels of the past were NOT wide spread as rising temps are and droughts are NOW

farmers struggle to make crops grow now more than ever
we also have LESS farmland in the USA period
here in PA< as to just 30 yrs ago, we have less than 50% of the farm land we once had!

when your lively hood depends on NORMAL weather, and your NOT getting it, I think it effects you WAY more than guys that just post things that don't live by weather and what its NOT doing or doing TOO much of!

weather IMO again is still changing and NOT for the better or normal

billions of humans that produce heat, has to have some effect no?

There are lots of things the matter with your argument. First of all the Dust Bowl era WAS a big event. It lasted for years and affected a very large portion of the midwestern part of the country. Yes, there is less farmland than there used to be. We don't need as much farmland because the whole farming THING has evolved into a much more efficient process than it used to be. No other country grows corn like we do. Much of it is exported. And we still have more corn than we know what to do with. I live in a farming community. My friends and relatives all farm. I own farmland and rent it out. I doubt if there is an ffffing thing you can educate me on farming. Sure the weather plays a role. So does ditching. So does fertilizer. So does seed. So does Monsanto. Let the weather change. Farmers will adapt.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
There are lots of things the matter with your argument. First of all the Dust Bowl era WAS a big event. It lasted for years and affected a very large portion of the midwestern part of the country. Yes, there is less farmland than there used to be. We don't need as much farmland because the whole farming THING has evolved into a much more efficient process than it used to be. No other country grows corn like we do. Much of it is exported. And we still have more corn than we know what to do with. I live in a farming community. My friends and relatives all farm. I own farmland and rent it out. I doubt if there is an ffffing thing you can educate me on farming. Sure the weather plays a role. So does ditching. So does fertilizer. So does seed. So does Monsanto. Let the weather change. Farmers will adapt.
never said the dust bowel wasn't a BIG event, or lasted a few yrs, I said it was a SMALL Event in the effects it happened in a small area, NOT world wide
as warming weather is now

as for farms , the reason there are SO few small farms has NOTHING to do with its due to larger farms are all that's needed, it due to a small time farmer cannot make a living unless there BIG
MOST all farms go under due to lack of ability to make a living and sell you development, as its a MUCH larger ONE time pay out, older generations of farmers worked there lives for land, and younger generations don't want to work as hard so SELL it and run with the cash they get!

YES farmers have gotten smarter thru tech to NOT WASTE as much, and again that's also due to HOW thin a line there is on making a profit and loosing your A$$

as for largest corn producing country , YES the USA is that, but China is right behind up, at only about 10-15 % less than us??, which is a SMALL different in that!
so, were NOT the largest by much!

do you know why the dust bowel stopped??
or better yet, do you KNOW That the dust bowel event was MAN made , and it was caused by MAN< NOT weather alone??
SO< maybe you need to re think your side, if you think that them dust bowels were just a natural cycle of things, as they were NOT

they were caused by MAN??
again, if this is correct, then it is a event, BIG to you, and proved to be MAN made, which backs up the " MAN effects weather?" side of things NO???
poke a hole in this FACT??
LOL
and mean this to be a LIGHT debate, no panties in a bunch here?
 

Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
If man is causing climate change, then that means man controls the weather. Except we all know man cannot control the weather.
 

dfattack

Well-known member
never said the dust bowel wasn't a big event, or lasted a few yrs, i said it was a small event in the effects it happened in a small area, not world wide
as warming weather is now

as for farms , the reason there are so few small farms has nothing to do with its due to larger farms are all that's needed, it due to a small time farmer cannot make a living unless there big
most all farms go under due to lack of ability to make a living and sell you development, as its a much larger one time pay out, older generations of farmers worked there lives for land, and younger generations don't want to work as hard so sell it and run with the cash they get!

Yes farmers have gotten smarter thru tech to not waste as much, and again that's also due to how thin a line there is on making a profit and loosing your a$$

as for largest corn producing country , yes the usa is that, but china is right behind up, at only about 10-15 % less than us??, which is a small different in that!
So, were not the largest by much!

Do you know why the dust bowel stopped??
Or better yet, do you know that the dust bowel event was man made , and it was caused by man< not weather alone??
So< maybe you need to re think your side, if you think that them dust bowels were just a natural cycle of things, as they were not

they were caused by man??
Again, if this is correct, then it is a event, big to you, and proved to be man made, which backs up the " man effects weather?" side of things no???
Poke a hole in this fact??
Lol
and mean this to be a light debate, no panties in a bunch here?

wow
 

mrbb

Well-known member
If man is causing climate change, then that means man controls the weather. Except we all know man cannot control the weather.

NO It just means MAN is altering the weather, and but doesn't mean it has control of it , two totally different things

and 100% YES< MAN has been able to MAKE rain in many cloud types too
but its NOT 100% yet
as again, it CAN alter it, but not in CONTROL of it
just facts boys and girls?
you can still believe what you like
 
C

Cirrus_Driver

Guest
mrbb, they are right....why bother. You've read too many stories with an obvious bias.
Time to get some new text books, and throw Al Gore in the burn pile.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
mrbb, they are right....why bother. You've read too many stories with an obvious bias.
Time to get some new text books, and throw Al Gore in the burn pile.

OR< Maybe you need to read some facts

as what have I said I am wrong about??
Dust bowels were in part caused by humans, and HOW they farmed that dry area

humans can alter weather(they can make rain at times, ever see a ski resort MAKE snow? LOL)

where am I wrong?
water tables in FRESH water end of things are at an all time LOW
oceans are at an all time HIGH
in records and data we have kept??

I see both sides of things, but I cannot deny the FACTS that things are changing
like it or not

call it climate change or global warming, again splitting hairs in the name you wish to use or not

its warmer, dryer than its been in 200+ yrs on average anymore?
all FACTS
 

xsledder

Active member
OR< Maybe you need to read some facts

as what have I said I am wrong about??
Dust bowels were in part caused by humans, and HOW they farmed that dry area

humans can alter weather(they can make rain at times, ever see a ski resort MAKE snow? LOL)

where am I wrong?
water tables in FRESH water end of things are at an all time LOW
oceans are at an all time HIGH
in records and data we have kept??

I see both sides of things, but I cannot deny the FACTS that things are changing
like it or not

call it climate change or global warming, again splitting hairs in the name you wish to use or not

its warmer, dryer than its been in 200+ yrs on average anymore?
all FACTS

I think you are confusing some facts. The farmers did not technically cause the drought that created the dust bowl. The drought was part of a cycle that naturally occurred in that area for many years. How the dust bowl was created was by the prefect timing of the drought and bad farming practices. Farmers did two things wrong during the dust bowl, first they tilled the fields and second they grow planets that was not native to the area and therefore not drought resistant. Now we have the NRCS (formally the SCS) because of the Dust Bowl.

As far as the fresh water tables shrinking, again it is not completely from a lack of rain. Current storm water practices have an impact on it too. In the past most areas had a lot more wetlands that recharged the water tables. Over the years we filled in those "swaps" and use storm sewers (and farmers have field tiles) to rapidly remove storm water from developed area. We are now paying the price for those bad practices. Currently, engineers are implementing Best Management Practices (BMP) to recharge the ground water tables.

How many field tiles do you have in your land to make more of it tillable? Will you be willing the remove those field tiles and allow the wetlands to return? Field tiles are another bad practice hurting the ground water table.

You need to consider that not everything is caused by "man-made climate change".

I find it interesting that glacial rebound is a possible theory for the Great Lakes losing water depth. Way to much going on with the planet to definitely say this is what is causing every thing.

(BTW, as an engineer I can take any fact and fit it into my nice neat little narrative.)
 

mrbb

Well-known member
I think you are confusing some facts. The farmers did not technically cause the drought that created the dust bowl. The drought was part of a cycle that naturally occurred in that area for many years. How the dust bowl was created was by the prefect timing of the drought and bad farming practices. Farmers did two things wrong during the dust bowl, first they tilled the fields and second they grow planets that was not native to the area and therefore not drought resistant. Now we have the NRCS (formally the SCS) because of the Dust Bowl.

As far as the fresh water tables shrinking, again it is not completely from a lack of rain. Current storm water practices have an impact on it too. In the past most areas had a lot more wetlands that recharged the water tables. Over the years we filled in those "swaps" and use storm sewers (and farmers have field tiles) to rapidly remove storm water from developed area. We are now paying the price for those bad practices. Currently, engineers are implementing Best Management Practices (BMP) to recharge the ground water tables.

How many field tiles do you have in your land to make more of it tillable? Will you be willing the remove those field tiles and allow the wetlands to return? Field tiles are another bad practice hurting the ground water table.

You need to consider that not everything is caused by "man-made climate change".

I find it interesting that glacial rebound is a possible theory for the Great Lakes losing water depth. Way to much going on with the planet to definitely say this is what is causing every thing.

(BTW, as an engineer I can take any fact and fit it into my nice neat little narrative.)
YES the timing and poor farming practice is what managed to the dust bowels
but again, everything your saying here defends ME, not against me

as if I read what your writing, your saying farming practice and humans have altered things that have caused water tabels to drop
SO in fact, humans are altering things
by your own words here

as for how many field tiles I have in my fields, I have ZERO
my land is sloped and surrounded on all 4 sides basically by wetlands, and a 6 acre pond on one side(not a square field, so several sides, has a 1/4 mile of a stream that borders it as well, and a native spring feed creek along it as well, its literally surrounded by water, and in heavy rains it floods in all low spots)
have irrigation on it as well, to HELP in dryer times now, something never really needed yrs back?

its a 100 yr old farm!


next as for water travels again
HUMAN growth and development as you stated has ALTERED how water builds and flows and is used, and used UP!

DAM"S NEEDED, to provide water for many area's are running OUT
look at the colorado river system! and those effected by it?

have humans been some what DUMB and building in places with almost NO water. YES< but again, that is 100% human caused situations
so,< again HUMANS< are effecting weather and water

just NO way around this
 

momoney2123

New member
OR< Maybe you need to read some facts

as what have I said I am wrong about??
Dust bowels were in part caused by humans, and HOW they farmed that dry area

humans can alter weather(they can make rain at times, ever see a ski resort MAKE snow? LOL)

where am I wrong?
water tables in FRESH water end of things are at an all time LOW
oceans are at an all time HIGH
in records and data we have kept??

I see both sides of things, but I cannot deny the FACTS that things are changing
like it or not

call it climate change or global warming, again splitting hairs in the name you wish to use or not

its warmer, dryer than its been in 200+ yrs on average anymore? all FACTS

Where in the heck are you finding accurate records that date back 200+ years?
 
G

G

Guest
O.K. mrbb, try this on. There is no question that man has done some stupid things to the environment. Ditches, dams, swamp draining - all things to try to control water. Many of these things happened long ago before you had to have a study on long term effects. WHAT IF the weather with all its ups and downs and natural cycles was the only constant? That's right - the weather has stayed the same but all of the stupid things man has done makes it LOOK like the weather is to blame. New Orleans was built below sea level!!! When was that ever a good idea?? Also momoney is right with his reference to 200 year old records. There are no accurate records. There were also no satelites to measure arctic ice mass or density. We are now living in an era of data overload. Everybody has a camera - there is nothing anywhere that goes unnoticed. If a mouse farts in Bangaladesh Jim Cantore on The Weather Channel will find out about it. Looking back on some of your posts it seems you are concerned about the farms and farming practices of old. Well guess what - farming has changed. The family farm is over and has been for quite some time. It is an economy of size thing. You can't have millions of dollars of equipment to farm 500 acres. Around here anything under 1000 acres is considered a hobby farm. Corporate farming is here and it is here to stay. And you should be happy for it. It means price stability and an assured supply.
 

xsledder

Active member
YES the timing and poor farming practice is what managed to the dust bowels
but again, everything your saying here defends ME, not against me

as if I read what your writing, your saying farming practice and humans have altered things that have caused water tabels to drop
SO in fact, humans are altering things
by your own words here

as for how many field tiles I have in my fields, I have ZERO
my land is sloped and surrounded on all 4 sides basically by wetlands, and a 6 acre pond on one side(not a square field, so several sides, has a 1/4 mile of a stream that borders it as well, and a native spring feed creek along it as well, its literally surrounded by water, and in heavy rains it floods in all low spots)
have irrigation on it as well, to HELP in dryer times now, something never really needed yrs back?

its a 100 yr old farm!


next as for water travels again
HUMAN growth and development as you stated has ALTERED how water builds and flows and is used, and used UP!

DAM"S NEEDED, to provide water for many area's are running OUT
look at the colorado river system! and those effected by it?

have humans been some what DUMB and building in places with almost NO water. YES< but again, that is 100% human caused situations
so,< again HUMANS< are effecting weather and water

just NO way around this

If you think my thread proves your point then you missed the real message, that other factors contribute to today's issues other than global warming, then so be it. My next questions to you is how are YOU going to change your life style to stop YOUR carbon emissions? How are YOU going to change the way you farm to eliminate carbon emissions from YOUR equipment?

If YOU are not going to change anything, and you take the position that other people need to change too, then you truly don't believe in man-made climate change.
 
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mrbb

Well-known member
If you think my thread proves your point then you missed the real message, that other factors contribute to today's issues other than global warming, then so be it. My next questions to you is how are YOU going to change your life style to stop YOUR carbon emissions? How are YOU going to change the way you farm to eliminate carbon emissions from YOUR equipment?

If YOU are not going to change anything, and you take the position that other people need to change too, then you truly don't believe in man-made climate change.

yes I agree 200 yrs back NO accurate records, used that number as JUST a POINT of sorts

since accurate records have been kept however its been a climb in temps on average around the world so??
forgive me for over listing a NUMBER here, I was wrong for doing so!

NEXT, as for my concerns if you think there about farming and HOW DO I< plan to change things
I never said I had any answers MY point has simply been, HUMANS ARE ALTERING WEATHER and in result its changing the tempos and seasons in the WORLD, in a negative way!
Folks DON"T like honest answers
an HONEST answer to some of these issue's is simply NOT having more and more humans!
some self control on humans side of things
there are literally WAY too many people in the world today having kids CAUSE THEY CAN< and not cause they planned them or can care for them and many that doesn't even WANT THEM

SO< how can humans help reverse MAYBE some things
Simple< LESS humans, less needs required of the PLANET to supply them with!

LESS footprint on tings NO?

you all want to says things like there is NOTHING going on but normal cycles of things, YET most of you also point oput things HUMANS have done to alter things

you cannot have BOTH
either we HUMANS ARE effecting weather and GLOBAL warming or CLIMATE CHANGE as some prefer to call it
or we are NOT
sorry, it works ONE way or the other

trying to defend that we HUMANS are NOT a BIG part of the problem, in both actions and AMOUNTS of us, is foolish

NO I don;'t have answers, or for sure don't have answers MOST would do, or accept


people IMO on average worry more about "ME"< and "ME NOW" and less about what happens down the road

throughout HISTORY< when humans are left to Control themselves they tend to fail to find self control!
and over use, abuse, and remove natural resource's to the point of almost extinction ,BEFORE someone steps in and says WAIT A MINUTE?

look at how many things we HUMANS have over used?
and why??
greed and demand, NO

all that, NOW and don't THINK maybe about LATER
 
C

Cirrus_Driver

Guest
If this were a TV, I'd switch the channel, because this program is one persons deluded, opinion based infomercial, nothing more, and I'm not buying.
Nobody can take 100 years of recorded weather history and fit it into millions of years of earth's existence, and generate a conclusive argument.
Climate change of TENTHS of a degree is insignificant over a 100 year time frame. Meaningless.
All other arguments about human impacts on climate change are null and void when you realize the database is not statistically significant enough in sample size to support any definitive conclusions.
Now I'm changing the channel.
 

shelby369

New member
If this were a TV, I'd switch the channel, because this program is one persons deluded, opinion based infomercial, nothing more, and I'm not buying.
Nobody can take 100 years of recorded weather history and fit it into millions of years of earth's existence, and generate a conclusive argument.
Climate change of TENTHS of a degree is insignificant over a 100 year time frame. Meaningless.
All other arguments about human impacts on climate change are null and void when you realize the database is not statistically significant enough in sample size to support any definitive conclusions.
Now I'm changing the channel.

Amen !!
 
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