things not to say in a job review/raises

[indy_500]

I remember this being brought up a couple years ago guess I'll bring it up again as this is the boat I am in. I am a cnc machinist for those who don't know. a couple months ago I got moved to 2nd shift and to a much tougher machine. After a few weeks on it I already am starting to not feel challenged (as I was with my last after 3 months). I am absolutely killing the times in the last 2 weeks I've kept track and saved over 30 hours in only 2 weeks. I just had a review and it went well but I'm kind of frustrated that I make 25-35% less per hour than everyone else running a comparable machine. I have not scrapped a part in probably 6 months and add machine time times the hours I save the company in a year and its higher than what I make in a year. I feel I'm getting taken advantage of a little because of my age and such little experience (not even 9 months experience). I Feel discouraged to bust my @$$ to try to save the company all this time and not get rewarded for it. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[schnook]

In my experience it takes quite a bit of time to work your way up the pay scale in an enviroment like that. It is great you are succeeding at your jib and skill. Don't get discouraged you will get there. I have no idea how big the company you are working for, but they more than likely have a pay schedule they follow based on time of employment not how much you save the company. sometimes you start at the bottom and work your way up. jmo.

 

[Bradzoo]

Indy welcome to the real world!! All I can tell you is get all the experience and training you can, are you in an apprenticeship? Just because you are making less try not to get a negitive attitude keep doing your job and don't worry what everyone else is doing, after your next reveiw if not much changes quietly start looking for another job, the problem is you need to get years of experience in and you may have to move a few times to get this experience but then again if you move to many times that dosn't look good either.

Bradzoo

 

[dab102999]

After 20 years in the trade I will tell you the same thing I tell my son...this trade rarely has retirement in it anymore so find another place to go to...if they want to keep you they will compensate. The only way I see young guys getting up the pay scale any longer is to bounce around. I haven't seen or think I will see the younger crowd get to the $20 plus range any longer. Heck I see $25 guys accepting jobs for way less to stay in the trade. CNC is where it is at. CNC is no where close to the knowledge that it used to take to step down angles or rads...or use a crosslide. That knowledge is where the bigger money came from.

Good luck to you indy but you picked a hard trade to be in any longer.

 

[Hoosier]

I remember this being brought up a couple years ago guess I'll bring it up again as this is the boat I am in. I am a cnc machinist for those who don't know. a couple months ago I got moved to 2nd shift and to a much tougher machine. After a few weeks on it I already am starting to not feel challenged (as I was with my last after 3 months). I am absolutely killing the times in the last 2 weeks I've kept track and saved over 30 hours in only 2 weeks. I just had a review and it went well but I'm kind of frustrated that I make 25-35% less per hour than everyone else running a comparable machine. I have not scrapped a part in probably 6 months and add machine time times the hours I save the company in a year and its higher than what I make in a year. I feel I'm getting taken advantage of a little because of my age and such little experience (not even 9 months experience). I Feel discouraged to bust my @$$ to try to save the company all this time and not get rewarded for it. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Just my opinion and it's probably not worth much, but I think you're too motivated and talented to be doing a job like this for too long. You're obviously very successful in it since it sounds like you've mastered it after just 9 months. From your post, it sounds like the top of the wage scale is about 35% higher than where you are at. If you were able to reach this amount, would you be happy doing this for the next 5 or 10 years? What about once you add a mortgage payment to your monthly expenses?

Perhaps you are using this as a stepping stone to the next position or management or something like that, if so, then you sometimes just have to keep your nose down and keep doing quality work.

 

[snocrazy]

I have found the only way to get real raises is to shop around for a new employer every 2 years. This way you go with the experience and negotiate accordingly. Raises are usually a joke. I have threatened to quit a couple of times and have got higher raises.

They already have you. Why give you a bunch more $ when they can dangle the carrot and give you small raises.

 

[Admin]

A very wise man (my dad) once said to me when I was about the age of Indy: "You will never get paid what you think you are worth by working for someone else". With a few exceptions, I think this rings very true. I am not saying Indy or anyone else HAS to become self employed, or settle for a current job/employer/pay scale, just that unless you are self employed, you will need to learn to be comfortable with the above statement.

I had way too much German blood (mom's side) coursing through my veins, so I had to go the route of self-employment. Pluses and minuses to that too!

-John

 

[Deleted member 10829]

All good advice above, but if it were me, I would go in and talk with my supervisor about it and be completely honest about how you feel without being negative. Point out everything you have above and there's no doubt they are aware of what you have been accomplishing as well and won't want to lose you. You don't get ahead in life by sitting back and waiting for things to happen for you, you have to make them happen. After your meeting with your supervisor, you will get a good feeling about how much they want you there and can make your immediate future decisions based on that. If they agree and give your more money, stay. If they don't respond, start looking. I have no doubt you will succeed anywhere.

 

[Skylar]

I am sure they are taking the cost of paying for your schooling into consideration also Indy.

John, your dad was a very wise man, excellent statement. It also takes a certain kind of person to take the risk to be self employed . Kudos to those that are!

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Also, how do you know what others are making?

 

[Special K]

I agree with mspease. I have 18 years of experience in the staffing/placement industry. The one thing, and the most important in my opinion, is people neglect to have an open an honest dialogue with their manager. Try to understand how things work from THEIR point of view. Look at how raises are typically handled, how they are dispersed, and how often. When it's time for your review, try to get a VERY good understanding of your goals and objectives for the next year. Be open about your concerns, let your manager know you really would like to be making more, show him/her your cost saving activities, as well as other great things you've done. At least you can sleep at night knowing you had an open and honest discussion about your current situation, you get an idea of what the company has in store for you (what are their plans for you long term) and how to possibly get a raise for the next period.
Best results would be to get an adjustment in pay, keep your job, gain respect from your boss for approaching him in such an adult manner, and NOT have to quit.
Now I understand it doesn't always work this smoothly, but I have had people working for me who have come to me at the last minute, offer in hand, putting in their resignation, and all they had to do was come to me and explain how they were feeling. I could have helped them stay and be happy (personally and financially). If you go find something else, then walk into your bosses office, there is little he will be able to do at that point.
Hope this helps. I rambled, but interviewing/placement/career counseling has been my job for a LONG time. Good luck.

 

[whitedust]

Welcome to the real world & biz wage budgets. No biz is going to give a newbie a 35% increase.... not in budget not going to happen. Have you considered how your coworkers with many years on the job would feel if they heard you got an increase not inline with their scale of experience & high quality work record? As said be a solid performer, set a strong foundation in a good company then move on to a better opportunity when it makes sense to move on. If you next employer sees you as a jumper for more money they may not be interested in you & desire more stability in their work force. Tread lightly,do well,have a discussion with management & if not aligned with your goals then move on but make sure your timing is correct.

 

[highhertel]

I remember this being brought up a couple years ago guess I'll bring it up again as this is the boat I am in. I am a cnc machinist for those who don't know. a couple months ago I got moved to 2nd shift and to a much tougher machine. After a few weeks on it I already am starting to not feel challenged (as I was with my last after 3 months). I am absolutely killing the times in the last 2 weeks I've kept track and saved over 30 hours in only 2 weeks. I just had a review and it went well but I'm kind of frustrated that I make 25-35% less per hour than everyone else running a comparable machine. I have not scrapped a part in probably 6 months and add machine time times the hours I save the company in a year and its higher than what I make in a year. I feel I'm getting taken advantage of a little because of my age and such little experience (not even 9 months experience). I Feel discouraged to bust my @$$ to try to save the company all this time and not get rewarded for it. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Indy, take what you just said and lay it out in a spreadsheet or chart and show your boss. Put your salesman hat on!

My rep. that works the Seattle market told me CNC operators at Boeng Co. (airplanes) make on average over $100k/yr. + benefits. I am not a union fan but maybe you need to look for a union shop. Are you an apprentice?

HH

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One more thing Indy, get your apprenticeship and 5+ years real life experience under your belt and you can write your own future.

Good luck!

HH

 

[jebjk1]

I would avoid telling him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, fore-fleshing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, d!@kless, hopeless, heartless, fat-@ss, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey s@!t he is. Hallelujah. Holy s@!t. Where's the Tylenol?"

 

[indy_500]

Thanks to those who have responded so far, to clear a few things up yes I'm in an apprenticeship currently, which is supposed to take 4 years to get 16 books/packets done and I already got 10 of them done and I still have 2 more classes left to complete my first year. There are 2 other apprentices who are both a year older than me and one of which is currently running the machine I moved off of and the other one lasted over a year on that machine before being moved from lathes to mills. I was only on it for 4 months before being moved to a tougher lathe and just like schnook said, the raises are on a schedule as I'm getting the same pay raises they did at the same times. I feel like I'm not being rewarded for moving onto a tougher machine not to mention I continue to save a lot of time on just about every job. Also, like Skylar mentioned they are paying for my school in which I took the tuition of this class and paying me to go to school for a day 2 times each month and it comes out to about $1.50/hr. Subtract that from the guys doing the same stuff, and I'm still not even in the same ballpark.

 

[lenny]

My .02! I am a business owner and have had apprentices in the drywall finishing field. When they start out I loose money on them because they have no skill and do not produce. When they get to the point where they are moving faster and skills are improving I am making up for the loss in the beginning. Any employee would produce enough work that the owner will make money on them and the owner see's you as an investment. The shop you are at has invested in you and want's a return on you. That return vrs investment may not be interpreted the same from you and your employer. If you were to leave today would they have lost money on you per their investment on you? That's the question that only they know the answer to. I doubt they are not seeing what you are doing so don't demand an immediate reward. Word hard and you will be rewarded, if not go somewhere else. Just try not an think you know better than them because they can do without you, have done so in the past and will in the future.

Sounds like you have been striving for excellence and that my friend is a great work ethic. Keep up the good work and if in a reasonable time they do not reward you than make it known.

 

[xcr440]

As sadly as it is, employers are generally not prepared for employees who show up and hit the ground running.

Keep kickin' arse and taking names, you will be rewarded, by them, or someone else.

 

[highhertel]

Thanks to those who have responded so far, to clear a few things up yes I'm in an apprenticeship currently, which is supposed to take 4 years to get 16 books/packets done and I already got 10 of them done and I still have 2 more classes left to complete my first year. There are 2 other apprentices who are both a year older than me and one of which is currently running the machine I moved off of and the other one lasted over a year on that machine before being moved from lathes to mills. I was only on it for 4 months before being moved to a tougher lathe and just like schnook said, the raises are on a schedule as I'm getting the same pay raises they did at the same times. I feel like I'm not being rewarded for moving onto a tougher machine not to mention I continue to save a lot of time on just about every job. Also, like Skylar mentioned they are paying for my school in which I took the tuition of this class and paying me to go to school for a day 2 times each month and it comes out to about $1.50/hr. Subtract that from the guys doing the same stuff, and I'm still not even in the same ballpark.

We have many CNC and wire EDM operators where I work. The really good ones tend to leave for greener pastures, either at a union shop or start their own company. The rest do o.k. and are content where they are at. So Indy, you need to determine if you are a leader or a follower?

HH

 

[G]

Lots of good advice here Indy. I employ about 30 people. Not quite the same jobs as you but there are some similarities. Believe me, your Boss/Bosses are paying attention to your work. They have probably gone through 40 guys to finally find somebody that can do what you can do. Realize that their wage scale - to some degree anyway- is based on their past experiences. You can't realistically expect to be compensated 35% more than you are currently getting based on only a relatively short period of time. Also the little thing about the apprenticeship factors in. The most important thing you can do is communicate with your superior(s) in a productive manner. Do not be confrontational. A good question might be ' Where will I be and how much will I be making in five years if I stay here with you? ' Be straight up with them and ask that they be honest with you. Who knows - you could end up part owner someday. Just don't be a whiner or a troublemaker. Good deeds will follow you throughout your career. So will bad deeds. I will never hire a whiner or a troublemaker no matter how efficient they might be. They can poison an entire workforce. Keep up the good work. Remain positive. Remember that the world is not always 'fair'. You are not the first one to ever experience this. You will be fine. Things don't happen overnight. I'm not even going to wish you good luck because you don't need it. You make your own luck.

 

[G]

One more thing. Wages and money in general. It is not how much you make that gets to be a problem. It is how much you SPEND. Live within your means. I know guys that clear $100000.00 a year that are always broke. They have houses and lake homes and cars and all kinds of stuff that they could live without. Do not get sucked into this. You can become a debt slave for your entire life. Also don't get hooked up with some insane woman. That gets to be a whole different topic I guess. Enough for now.

 

[schnook]

Indy, being on an apprenticeship program, I am sure your wages will be a percentage of the top pay they offer, I started out at 70% of top pay for my classification, but did receive a raise every 6 months through the program, like everyone said keep up the good work, have a positive attitude because a negative one is useless, just pisses everyone else off. You will get there just takes time and yes your talents will be noticed.

schnook