mrsrunningbear
Active member
What a spot for resort owners to be in, what makes your decision, how far do you go, how much money do you loose, how nice an understanding do you be.....talk about a stressful warm up 
To Refund or not to Refund
- Thread starter mrsrunningbear
- Start date
Not sure what you mean? If snow conditions fall apart most resorts let you cancel free of charge but there are some that don't. I refused to go back to the resorts that charged me when conditions changed to poor snow or no snow. I guess it depends upon the understanding the resort owner & customer both have regarding cancellation.
Refund! Resorts that charge snowmobilers for canceling reservation because the weather has gone to crap is not right in my eyes. My friend George who runs Whitefawn will even go as far as calling people and letting them know that conditions are not ideal offering to reschedule or cancel with no charge. Think about the investment people are making to come up snowmobiling. You don't want to charge people leaving them bitter and never seeing their return business. Plus most likely their friends business. Word spreads fast when people think they get burned. I know some may be ok with the charges but I think it is better business in the long run not charging and being understanding.
Well if you don't know if you are going or not 48hrs or less before check in time then I say you need to be charged at least a portion of your stay if you cancel before the 48hr then no charge (JMO). We like most everyone else have been watching this warm up by the hour, we are going and taking our chance's
mrsrunningbear
Active member
yes refund is our policy and always will be and honesty will always be the way we go as most of you know from my posts, last thing I want is someone coming here upset with us, we've been in that place before we moved up here and hated it.....but I guess I just wanted you all to know how hard it is on a resort owner. You let someone cancel for 5 days starting on friday....come friday it snows and is rideable....there's the hard part
i guess it depends. do you have anything that states what you do in weather situations regarding the trails when customers reserve?
To be honest, i had never heard of "trail guarantees" before i read it on this site last year.
there is being nice, and bending over backwards.
In my eyes, you can't control the weather. If i make a camping reservation at a park and it rains all weekend, they do not offer refunds. not the same situation, but still weather based.
As someone that is coming up and staying at the Root Cellar Friday, i didnt expect them to refund me anything. I found something else to do...
To be honest, i had never heard of "trail guarantees" before i read it on this site last year.
there is being nice, and bending over backwards.
In my eyes, you can't control the weather. If i make a camping reservation at a park and it rains all weekend, they do not offer refunds. not the same situation, but still weather based.
As someone that is coming up and staying at the Root Cellar Friday, i didnt expect them to refund me anything. I found something else to do...
you can only do so much...tell them this is the situation, the current trail conditions and what the weather forecast is. not much else you can do, but i can understand form a resort standpoint that you could lose a lot of $$...
I think as long as its 48 hrs it should refunded assuming conditions are poor. A person should know by then if its worth going or not. If a place charged me for cancelling because of really poor snow conditions, I would never stay there again and I would make sure everyone i knew avoided it as well.
Obvoiusly its up to the resort owner to determine conditions. I dont think sticking it to sledders when things like this happen would be very good for business in the long run.
Obvoiusly its up to the resort owner to determine conditions. I dont think sticking it to sledders when things like this happen would be very good for business in the long run.
You and I have talked about this before. Full refunds are great and certainly keep the customers happy but, you are a business owner with expenses to cover. I could be wrong but, I don't think anyone would, or should have a problem with paying a cancellation fee of some sort if they cancel less than 48 hours of check in time. If they don't do their homework ahead of time researching conditions in the area before coming up, the blame really falls more on their shoulders if they wait until the last minute to cancel and should expect, and be willing, to pay a fee.
In a nutshell, refund them for lodging minus a nominal cancellation fee. If they get pissed because you charged them say $50.00, too bad. Let them screw somebody else over next time.
JMO
Dave
In a nutshell, refund them for lodging minus a nominal cancellation fee. If they get pissed because you charged them say $50.00, too bad. Let them screw somebody else over next time.
JMO
Dave
snow_monkey
New member
If you charge a cancellation fee maybe you can let them use their cancelled reciept towards their next visit. That would give me incentive to come back. You also have to remember there are probably some not so considerate people that have more than one reservation for the u.p. this weekend. I would give repeat guests their money back for sure. First time guests I would charge a small cancellation fee. You can also refund their money if the room ends up booked. We know you want to do the right thing but there are also alot of idiots out there.
I think a 20$ cancelation fee would be reasonable. And no refund if not cancelled within 24 hours. You as a bussiness need to and should be paid for your time makeing resorvations as well as takeing the cancelations. And like previouslly mentioned useing that towards a future stay would be incentive to come back when conditions are better.
Ive allways asked what cancelation policy is and that has in the past determined where i booked at.
Ive allways asked what cancelation policy is and that has in the past determined where i booked at.
Are you renting a room or a snowmobiling vacation with the use of snow?
I'm guessing the room is fine either way. Campgrounds don't give money back when it rains.
I'd be fine paying a cancelation fee, especially if it was explained up front.
Tough business, booked for months, warm up, then empty. Gotta be tough.
I'm guessing the room is fine either way. Campgrounds don't give money back when it rains.
I'd be fine paying a cancelation fee, especially if it was explained up front.
Tough business, booked for months, warm up, then empty. Gotta be tough.
I have to say, the proper response depends a bit. Last year we had plans to go to Indian River. The trail reports were so-so and no new snow was forecasted. I started calling the motel 5 days before the trip. Every time the owner said "people who are riding are reporting good conditions". I called every day and even the day before our trip he said this. We get there the next day and there is virtually no rideable snow. Every road connector is completely bare and the trails are 100% snirt and dirt. We made one attempt at riding and circled back after 20-30 miles. When I confronted him he acted like I was crazy and tried to point out all these places we could go...but we had already tried those areas and there was nothing left to ride on. He then refused to give me any refund on a 4 day reservation. I was really PO'd, mainly because of the misleading statements he made to me about the conditions. If I had not called and just assumed the conditions were good, I can see him wanting to charge me for the whole trip or at least for a couple of nights.....but to call every day, hear the same positive story and then to get there and find out what it was like, was completely unacceptable. Needless to say we'll never go back there.
So I would say, if you are honest in your appraoch about the conditions, suggest people call in advance to verify, etc.....if you do that I think you're 100% OK in asking for the first night in advance and it being non-refundable, which is not too different from what most hotel chains do. I don't think it's right to not refund multiple days, as long as the person has a valid reason (riding conditions being the main one) and they're not being a complete a-hole about it. Or another example, they crash out on the way there and never make it to your place. Provided they call you right away to let you know, would it be right to charge them past the first night? I would say probably not. Now if they don't call you, and you keep holding the room for them, they should pay for every night they had the room reserved.....
My .02
So I would say, if you are honest in your appraoch about the conditions, suggest people call in advance to verify, etc.....if you do that I think you're 100% OK in asking for the first night in advance and it being non-refundable, which is not too different from what most hotel chains do. I don't think it's right to not refund multiple days, as long as the person has a valid reason (riding conditions being the main one) and they're not being a complete a-hole about it. Or another example, they crash out on the way there and never make it to your place. Provided they call you right away to let you know, would it be right to charge them past the first night? I would say probably not. Now if they don't call you, and you keep holding the room for them, they should pay for every night they had the room reserved.....
My .02
LoveMyDobe
Active member
Lakewoods in Cable
I know in the past they keep your deposit and you have til June to use it there on anything. I know some friends that had a deposit and couldn't make it back up so they let another friend use it. Guess you'd have to call Lakewoods and see what they do now.
I know in the past they keep your deposit and you have til June to use it there on anything. I know some friends that had a deposit and couldn't make it back up so they let another friend use it. Guess you'd have to call Lakewoods and see what they do now.
This is a lot tougher on the Mom and Pop places. I'd bet if you make a reservation at Super 8 or any other large chain your credit card WILL be charged. I'm pretty sure the Super 8's in the U.P. have a 72 hr. policy during the winter just for this reason, otherwise, at most Super 8's you have until 6PM the night of your stay.
IMO the best thing is to have a policy in place and stick to it. I think 3PM the day before is reasonable. Whatever you do, don't do something for one person and something else for another.
IMO the best thing is to have a policy in place and stick to it. I think 3PM the day before is reasonable. Whatever you do, don't do something for one person and something else for another.
toddspolaris
Member
Sounds like the same encounter with the same place we had yrs. ago. We did get our money back. wasn't easy though. Never went back. Not honest- Not getting my business
It's a really hard call when you look at it from both ends. Businesses are hurting yet so is the general publics wallet. When there was that meltdown over New Years we did not get our $100 deposit back. We reschedule and I assumed (dummy me) we could apply it towards our next stay but that wasn't the case. Keep in mind this is about the 6th year in a row we've stayed at this same place. So as you can imagine it left a slight distaste in my mouth. We are now scheduled to come up again this month (same place) and I'm wondering again if this warmup has done us in. I may be "donating" $200 for the season. I'm about ready to sell the sled and hang up my gloves...
I feel for ya MrsBear. Not a fun spot to be in.
If I was a resort owner and had to write up some sort of cancellation policy, it would be something along these lines....
When you make a reservation, you put down an xx% deposit. If you cancel 2 weeks before, it's refunded. 1 week before, we keep half the deposit, you get half back. Cancelled 48 hrs or less- you lose deposit entirely. However- that deposit would be good for a future stay (1 yr expiration). Regardless of cancellation reason (death, weather, lost your job, don't feel like it, etc)
I realize the warmup is the basis of this discussion- but really- people have access to weather reports. At the end of the day, they have to make a judgment call. Either they say screw it, we're going and we'll find something else to do while we're there. Or nevermind, I'm pulling the plug (and having an up front policy and knowing what they stand to lose would come into play with their decision). Nothing in life is guaranteed. I think it's selfish of people to expect resort/hotel owners to just hold something for them, for free, with no consequences. I personally would have no problem with a resort keeping my deposit if I decided today, that I'm not coming (and I was supposed to be there on Friday). It's the cost of having that reservation. Alternately- I could have chosen not to make a reservation, and gambled the possibility of not finding a room at the place/area I want if conditions had stayed good. I think that's the 'happy medium'.
If I was a resort owner and had to write up some sort of cancellation policy, it would be something along these lines....
When you make a reservation, you put down an xx% deposit. If you cancel 2 weeks before, it's refunded. 1 week before, we keep half the deposit, you get half back. Cancelled 48 hrs or less- you lose deposit entirely. However- that deposit would be good for a future stay (1 yr expiration). Regardless of cancellation reason (death, weather, lost your job, don't feel like it, etc)
I realize the warmup is the basis of this discussion- but really- people have access to weather reports. At the end of the day, they have to make a judgment call. Either they say screw it, we're going and we'll find something else to do while we're there. Or nevermind, I'm pulling the plug (and having an up front policy and knowing what they stand to lose would come into play with their decision). Nothing in life is guaranteed. I think it's selfish of people to expect resort/hotel owners to just hold something for them, for free, with no consequences. I personally would have no problem with a resort keeping my deposit if I decided today, that I'm not coming (and I was supposed to be there on Friday). It's the cost of having that reservation. Alternately- I could have chosen not to make a reservation, and gambled the possibility of not finding a room at the place/area I want if conditions had stayed good. I think that's the 'happy medium'.
toddspolaris
Member
But I as a business owner, I have to keep the general public happy, they are always right, so if you want them to come back to you and spend more money with you. do what keeps them happy and that would be a refund OR put that towards another weekend within one yr. or which ever they would like. And I bet most people would want the refund now. Remember the old saying, one bad happening and they tell 10 other people, one good happening and they tell 1 or 2. Just my thought because I want all my customers back into my shop with a smile. just my .02