What you all think??
- Thread starter shelby369
- Start date
Interesting read.... If HD buys AC that will be the end of the OEM agreement with Yamaha. Yamaha has always said 5 years & over just a bridge to new pure Yamaha sleds from Japan after earthquake. Something must be going on with AC always rumors that other biz may buy. Wait and see as always. lol
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Cirrus_Driver
Guest
AC not enough of a market leader for HD to want them. I'd bet big $$'s this would never happen. Easy money.
eagle1
Well-known member
^^^^^lmao....
Anybody read the other announcement from Yamaha? Came out June 30th.
New North American Snowmobile Division.
http://snoriderswest.com/article/sn...rth_america_as_snowmobile_global_headquarters
Anybody read the other announcement from Yamaha? Came out June 30th.
New North American Snowmobile Division.
http://snoriderswest.com/article/sn...rth_america_as_snowmobile_global_headquarters
snobuilder
Well-known member
doubt he is just some unaccountable internet clown that thinks everyone buys into his BS, EZ.
also doubt it came out of thin air like most internet BSers posts. I am sure you understand, EZ.
Might be a good move if they move the Yamaha/Cat assembly line to a less interbred location.
so some analyst who has nothing to do with cat or hd thinks because HD is sitting on 700mill they want to buy in to a dying Snowbelt only market to keep what 40 dealers in the Midwest in to sales in dec to feb . I would bet a lot of money that this will never happen. really what is in it for HD? do u really think HD dealers in the snow belts would not have already picked up sled sales if they thought it could be good for there dealership? The 2 HD dealers I know of who did sell sleds dumped that yrs ago . both started by a all in 1 deal . then diff buildings for hogs and other powersports then dumped the sleds all together . and this in MN . u really think some HD dealer in Iowa wants to start a inventory of sleds? **** for what it is worth do U really think Polaris would not just rather build bikes and atv and dump the sleds if they thought they could get out gracefully. it is about the most volatile power sports market to be in .sad to say look to Yamaha nuff said
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like Mexico
snobuilder
Well-known member
The coming ice age will change everything.
HD wanting to get into a hugely expanding rec vehicle industry through an established network of dealerships isn't all that far fetched.
Could be the Yamacat agreement makes the whole idea even more interesting to HD. HD is moving globally as well with there India bikes.
HD wanting to get into a hugely expanding rec vehicle industry through an established network of dealerships isn't all that far fetched.
Could be the Yamacat agreement makes the whole idea even more interesting to HD. HD is moving globally as well with there India bikes.
hugely expanding ? as some one who looks at registration numbers yr to yr just to estimate what kind of money the clubs will be getting I can tell u expanding is not the word I would use . in MN any way
what is HD building in India?
I have a Bajaj India built duke pretty impressive for what it is .is HD having Bajaj build HD something to? os id HD attempting something on there own .
BTW don't see to many Indians running a zr up to the Himalayas on the back of there wood frame trucks . they would prob give doo a run for there money on crazy paint jobs
what is HD building in India?
I have a Bajaj India built duke pretty impressive for what it is .is HD having Bajaj build HD something to? os id HD attempting something on there own .
BTW don't see to many Indians running a zr up to the Himalayas on the back of there wood frame trucks . they would prob give doo a run for there money on crazy paint jobs
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Cirrus_Driver
Guest
1st time for everything....but read what he said (Ezra). He's got this nailed in the above posts. Harley sitting on 700 mil means they are going to buy into AC/Yam? - Not happening. 1st of all I doubt Yam will let that happen, and 2nd of all, it would have to be for AC only and there's still an agreement to be played out between the 2. HD's more likely to "tool up" and make their own sleds. They have talent that could reverse engineer with the best of them. It happens throughout the industry, most of which the general public never hears about.
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G
Guest
Harley should take that 700 million and try to make a motorcycle that doesn't leak oil.
sweeperguy
Active member
It's my understanding HD's haven't really leaked oil since the AMF days.
skidoolouie
Member
A smart acquisition is not to use your cash to buy a market leader with little headroom for growth, you buy an undeveloped company with good products and potential and spend your money developing and marketing those products to grow share. It is a much higher rate of return on capital to grow your investment rather than to just buy existing profits. Simply put, Arctic Cat has a much higher growth potential as they have a smaller share. As to why HD would be interested in snowmobiles (with a nod of the head to ezra, it is a very shaky market) one must think of "share of powersport consumer's purchases". While not all motorcyclists are sledders, and not all sledders are motorcyclists, people who sled and bike (or bike and sled) are the key consumers as they buy for multiple seasons, and the products do not overlap (you can't sled in the summer, can't bike in the winter). Therefore, to enjoy powersports you must buy two products (or three if you are into ATV/ORV). Polaris can sell you all three products, as can Yamaha and BRP (who can actually sell you 4 products with watercraft). Arctic Cat can sell two products (no motorcycle) , Harley can sell you one (no ATV, no sled). If HD acquires Arctic Cat HD will now be able to sell in all three segments with absolutely no cannibalization of motorcycle sales as sleds do not compete with bikes. Hmmmm, sounds like a brilliant strategy to me. The test will be the ability for HD to fund the brand conversion from Polaris/Ski-Doo/ Yamaha to Cat in a market that has intense brand loyalty.
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G
Guest
What dcsnomo states is true. Pick up an underperformer and grow it. Proven business plan. Is AC a suitable underperformer for HD? They are the second to last place sled manufacturer. They do not sell anywhere near the four wheelers and side by sides that POL does. One reason for this is because their four wheelers and side by sides suck. ( Read some customer reviews. ) However it is a tough market. HD has more resources than AC which is running on fumes. But they don't have the resources of Pol or Doo. They also do not have the market penetration of POL or Doo. It would take one heck of a product to unseat Pol in side by sides or Doo in sleds. And it would take years. The only reason I could imagine that HD might pump money into AC would be to try to steal some sled business back from Poo since Poo has stolen so much bike business from HD. But this would be a stupid spiteful act that. Big Corps don't do things like that. A couple of more low snow years and AC will fold by itself and maybe, just maybe somebody capable might pick it up off the bonepile for little or nothing and continue on. But I doubt it. Again, it is a tough market. Only the big boys with lots of resources will survive. POL and Doo within 5 years. That will be it. You heard it here first.
first off HD would not buy cat again why? HD has not sunk squat in to R&D in yrs last time they spent any cash on R&D they hired Porsche to do it for them. they are not a corp comfortable in a fast paced consistently changing market that requires huge investments in engineering and race development .
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Cirrus_Driver
Guest
Companies like HD don't need to gamble on a failing business not knowing if they can turn it, particularly in an unpredictable, small niche market like snowmobiling. HD would never gamble on an uncertain business. I'm game for the bet, if you got the dough. Name the price - never happen. Needs a time frame - say 2 years max.