Why Snowmobiling Will End

[ddhanna]

in MN that 50% is much much higher .
most permit holders sign in part because if they are a landowner with a trail permit they are covered by the state of MN insurance policy if some one on a snowmobile get hurt or killed anyplace on there property .
with no trail permit some clown trespassing and gets hurt said land owner can get sued and in this day and age can potentially loose if not loose can still cost them big money in lawyer fees

Thankfully WI has the "Berry Picking Law" which essentially holds landowners harmless in the event someone is injured while recreating on their property. You can still be sued, they just can't win in almost all circumstances. We still purchase fairly inexpensive liability insurance Mostly so that they will be defended in the event they are sued.

 

[przes1]

Another thing old man told me was nobody on their death bed wished they work more!

 

[allpolaris]

Thankfully WI has the "Berry Picking Law" which essentially holds landowners harmless in the event someone is injured while recreating on their property. You can still be sued, they just can't win in almost all circumstances. We still purchase fairly inexpensive liability insurance Mostly so that they will be defended in the event they are sued.

Where does trespassing fall into this....on your property illegally certainly does not make the owner liable!!!

 

[WorkHardPlayHrd]

People will try to do anything now.

 

[ddhanna]

Where does trespassing fall into this....on your property illegally certainly does not make the owner liable!!!

As I mentioned, the landowner is almost never liable in Wisconsin.

 

[old abe]

It has become more, and more apparent to myself, my family, and riding friends the last few years that the access to private property, for snowmobile trails, as we have known it to be for many, many years, could very well become a killer problem in the near future. Disrespect, irresponsible riders, conversational attitudes, trespassing, and ect. I have always valued the private property access for snowmobile trails, of any kind very much, as I own rural property. Treat the owner, and his/hers property with respect, and be responsible. It's seems so easy??? But with the attitudes, and acts of some people today, it is not hard to understand why any property owner, would have to put up with it. The reasons are many. Without access to private property for our snowmobile trails, we are finished. I have seen this get to be a domino effect, as to adjacent properties. We snowmobile riders have many foes to counter now days, but the worst could sadly be some snowmobile riders, their attitudes, and their conduct to the property, and the owner????????? Lets hope not. What I have just wrote, is a very, very good reason to be a member, and part of a snowmobile club. The problem riders do not belong to a snowmobile club any where, is my bet. I have snowmobiled for many, many years, and have no intent of giving it up. Our attitude, and responsible conduct does matter, as people, and sled riders!!!

 

[gary_in_neenah]

"We have met the enemy and he is us"
Pogo

I had similar thoughts while on our Club Ride this year in northwest Wisconsin. It seemed that we were using a lot of the local gravel roads to reconnect with trails. Could it be that in years past the trails continued through the wooded areas parallel to the roads? Was it our own bad behavior and disregard of the owners wishes that closed those trails? I don't know as I don't live there but it's something to think about as your riding on open gravel and asphalt to get to the trail up ahead.

 

[snobuilder]

"We have met the enemy and he is us"
Pogo

I had similar thoughts while on our Club Ride this year in northwest Wisconsin. It seemed that we were using a lot of the local gravel roads to reconnect with trails. Could it be that in years past the trails continued through the wooded areas parallel to the roads? Was it our own bad behavior and disregard of the owners wishes that closed those trails? I don't know as I don't live there but it's something to think about as your riding on open gravel and asphalt to get to the trail up ahead.

Pretty sure it is lack of snow that has you clickin rocks.

 

[DamageInc]

in MN that 50% is much much higher .
most permit holders sign in part because if they are a landowner with a trail permit they are covered by the state of MN insurance policy if some one on a snowmobile get hurt or killed anyplace on there property .
with no trail permit some clown trespassing and gets hurt said land owner can get sued and in this day and age can potentially loose if not loose can still cost them big money in lawyer fees

That varies a lot by county in any state. In some MI and WI counties, it's almost entirely public land. In some counties, it's a fairly even mix. In some southern counties, it's almost entirely private land.

 

[tealracing16]

In that same vane take a look at the sides of trails and see how far people go off trail in a field. If it has winter wheat and one person wrecks it, yes the club may reimburse them or they can say no thanks next year too much hassle. Yes it shouldn't close because of one but one can certainly cause it to be closed.

Honestly I think lack of snow will be the end. Two years running we didn't open our trails here in Brown County, WI. The parts I mark are entirely private except for the right of way on a county road. We do link up to the Mountain Bay trail but pretty much entirely private and with the building going on it's getting weird marking trails on highway right of way but the owner is cutting it like they own the grass.

 

[sweeperguy]

In that same vane take a look at the sides of trails and see how far people go off trail in a field. If it has winter wheat and one person wrecks it, yes the club may reimburse them or they can say no thanks next year too much hassle. Yes it shouldn't close because of one but one can certainly cause it to be closed.

Honestly I think lack of snow will be the end. Two years running we didn't open our trails here in Brown County, WI. The parts I mark are entirely private except for the right of way on a county road. We do link up to the Mountain Bay trail but pretty much entirely private and with the building going on it's getting weird marking trails on highway right of way but the owner is cutting it like they own the grass.

I don't think it's that unusual for property owners to maintain right of way easements. Many landowners want their residence to look nice all the way out to the road. Just because they are mowing the grass does not mean they don't realize it's a right of way easement.
Now the people who do landscaping in the right of way, may or may not know exactly how right of way or utility easements work, and the rules governing them. In a nutshell, they can landscape, but don't have the right to complain about damage. (In most cases maybe not all)

 

[frnash]

Why Snowmobiling Will End?

'Cuz all you snomobiew jockeys and your nasty, noisy, intwusive snowmobiews are stwessful to (moose and) wolves and elk (and pwobabwy all the fowwest cwitters).

Maybe even wabbits and ducks!

The enviwonmentawists are pissed, and they're gonna be coming for ya!

From MTU: "Snowmobiles, Wolves and Elk: The Straight Poop",

"The straight poop on snowmobiling is that it's stressful to wolves and elk. …"

---

Don't shoot the messenger (me!) — it's not messenger season!
[Oh what has become of my alma mater, a formerly great engineering school, now becoming a "Librul (F)arts University? ]

 

[POLARISDAN]

Why Snowmobiling Will End?

'Cuz all you snomobiew jockeys and your nasty, noisy, intwusive snowmobiews are stwessful to (moose and) wolves and elk (and pwobabwy all the fowwest cwitters).
View attachment 58593
Maybe even wabbits and ducks!

The enviwonmentawists are pissed, and they're gonna be coming for ya!

From MTU: "Snowmobiles, Wolves and Elk: The Straight Poop",

---

Don't shoot the messenger (me!) — it's not messenger season!
[Oh what has become of my alma mater, a formerly great engineering school, now becoming a "Librul (F)arts University? ]

u got wayyyy too much time on ur hands brother

 

[sweeperguy]

u got wayyyy too much time on ur hands brother

When ur like 94 you'll have bunches of time on your hands too. hahaha

 

[tealracing16]

I don't think it's that unusual for property owners to maintain right of way easements. Many landowners want their residence to look nice all the way out to the road. Just because they are mowing the grass does not mean they don't realize it's a right of way easement.
Now the people who do landscaping in the right of way, may or may not know exactly how right of way or utility easements work, and the rules governing them. In a nutshell, they can landscape, but don't have the right to complain about damage. (In most cases maybe not all)

Yes they don't have a right to it I understand but one of our trails goes down the side of a county road. This road is a snowmobile route so we shouldn't have to do anything legally. A couple of years ago they added sidewalks and people are building houses on it so we spend a lot of time adding signage and fencing to keep people on the right of way and not on front yards. Its a lot of work for the very few club members that mark trails to mark roads that we shouldn't have to touch. That's about a mile long and it's the only public land we cross, otherwise it's all private (farm fields for the most).

Just based on how many people used to mark our trails vs last fall I would say that in another 5 years there won't be a trail system in Howard, WI. Nobody comes out and helps, our club membership went way up because of cap step but at trail signage weekend there's the same 4-5 people to do all the work.

 

[old abe]

Yes they don't have a right to it I understand but one of our trails goes down the side of a county road. This road is a snowmobile route so we shouldn't have to do anything legally. A couple of years ago they added sidewalks and people are building houses on it so we spend a lot of time adding signage and fencing to keep people on the right of way and not on front yards. Its a lot of work for the very few club members that mark trails to mark roads that we shouldn't have to touch. That's about a mile long and it's the only public land we cross, otherwise it's all private (farm fields for the most).

Just based on how many people used to mark our trails vs last fall I would say that in another 5 years there won't be a trail system in Howard, WI. Nobody comes out and helps, our club membership went way up because of cap step but at trail signage weekend there's the same 4-5 people to do all the work.

Sad, but so it is on clubs demise due to the lack of active membership. The lack of snow now days is not at all helping this issue. This perhaps leads to less snowmobilers??? Many throwing in the towel on snowmobiles for SXS's. We have many obstacles ahead of us, and hoops to jump thru as a snowmobile sport.

 

[snobuilder]

Yes they don't have a right to it I understand but one of our trails goes down the side of a county road. This road is a snowmobile route so we shouldn't have to do anything legally. A couple of years ago they added sidewalks and people are building houses on it so we spend a lot of time adding signage and fencing to keep people on the right of way and not on front yards. Its a lot of work for the very few club members that mark trails to mark roads that we shouldn't have to touch. That's about a mile long and it's the only public land we cross, otherwise it's all private (farm fields for the most).

Just based on how many people used to mark our trails vs last fall I would say that in another 5 years there won't be a trail system in Howard, WI. Nobody comes out and helps,
our club membership went way up because of cap step but at trail signage weekend there's the same 4-5 people to do all the work.

Sad to hear.

We have a good turn out, but always have even before cap/step. Maybe it is the food and refreshments we put on at local establishments when the day is done.....$600 to $800 worth!

 

[xcr440]

Sad to hear.

We have a good turn out, but always have even before cap/step. Maybe it is the food and refreshments we put on at local establishments when the day is done.....$600 to $800 worth!

This is an excellent point - volunteering is key to getting the work done when it comes to clubs - but we also need to 'reward' those who do volunteer. It is a real oxymoron situation, especially when the weather doesn't cooperate during the season. The little woman always asks me why we are out there putting the signage in when you never get to ride the trails. A little incentive to participate to keep things going, for when mother nature does cooperate can go a long way to keeping and attracting help for a couple days a year.

 

[sweeperguy]

Yes they don't ? have a right to it I understand but one of our trails goes down the side of a county road. This road is a snowmobile route so we shouldn't have to do anything legally. A couple of years ago they added sidewalks and people are building houses on it so we spend a lot of time adding signage and fencing to keep people on the right of way and not on front yards. Its a lot of work for the very few club members that mark trails to mark roads that we shouldn't have to touch. That's about a mile long and it's the only public land we cross, otherwise it's all private (farm fields for the most).

Just based on how many people used to mark our trails vs last fall I would say that in another 5 years there won't be a trail system in Howard, WI. Nobody comes out and helps, our club membership went way up because of cap step but at trail signage weekend there's the same 4-5 people to do all the work.

Well that sounds like a Snowmobiler issue. Not a landowner caused situation.

 

[tealracing16]

Sweeperguy - Yep exactly. two bad sleds can close a trail even if the trail is on the right of way. That was my message earlier that didn't work.

Snobuilder - We spend over 400 each meeting on beer and sometimes food and there may be 30 people there. We removed beer a few years ago when we were broke but we fund raise different now.

440 - I always had the thought that the first year we don't mark a trail will be the last year the trail is there, snow or no snow gotta mark it.