Why Weren't We Ready

[sweeperguy]

I can't help but wonder, why we weren't better prepared for this pandemic.
It seems to me after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Centers. And the earlier attempt to blow it up in 1993. I know there have been people afraid of them scaling up to the use of biological and chemical weapons. An attack with highly contagious pathogens, should have been on their radar. Then with the SARS virus outbreaks the last 20 or so years.
Why wouldn't hospitals, and the government. Have on had millions of N95 masks. Along with hazard suits, face shields and respirators. I'm sure there are probably other supplies, that should be on hand. These things are at the front of my mind, since we're caught short of these items this time.

For a worst case scenario. It seems even a stockpile of, portable wash stations, gas masks, and again I'm sure there are others. We should have on hand en mass, for civil defense.

Seems to me all these huge health care conglomerates, have emergency preparedness experts on staff. Why would each hospital not have on hand 100's of thousands of masks, face shields and protective clothing in storage on site. The government should have had several million, at National Guard Armories.
With being so short handed on these items. Had this virus been a deliberate attack on the US. There would be several hundred thousand, or maybe even a million dead already. These simple, very inexpensive items could save lives.

So now that brings me to mass hoard buying. In times of impending disaster, and hoarding buying starts taking place. It was toilet paper and hand sanitizer, nationwide this time. But local hoard buying of items like water, when a hurricane is approaching.
Wouldn't it make sense for stores. Especially the "big box" stores. To have a policy in place, that when X number of carts. Full of specific items start being seen at checkouts. An automatic limit is set on these items that are getting bought up. I saw pictures of every register, with many carts. Piled high with TP, and hurricane pictures of the same thing with water. Some get it ALL, and most get NONE.
It really wouldn't take much thought to come up with a hoarding limiting system. With a plan to then notify other stores, within their region, that might not have experienced it yet. Possibly maybe even notifying other companies. If one gets run on they all will eventually.

 

[Tracker]

This is a quote from another thread...maybe you should reread it...several times

I’m not sure my point was taken correctly, so I will do a better job to try to clarify. I stopped watching the main stream media 6 to 7 years ago, because after watching them totally batch or make up things regarding the atmosphere, I started to question their knowledge or they’re trustworthiness.[
I had conversations with other professionals such as my brother who is a commercial airline pilot and friends who are doctors and they all commented the same way, saying that most of what the news was presenting in those fields was also incorrect. So I decided to just stop watching because I was being misinformed, intentionally or unintentionally, It did not matter. It seems a lot of people these days have the same feeling about the media yet they continue to watch and complain so that’s why I ask why does anybody watch them anymore. I currently still am undecided as to if the measures put in place we’re over done or not. That means I’m not arguing with anybody on either side. What I do know about this virus vs. the seasonal flu (And this comes from many doctors saying the same thing, including an ER doctor I know in Chicago), is that if left unchecked, meaning no restrictions at all, this virus had the potential to kill 5-10% of the global population. The reason for this is they say 80% of the people that come down with it handle it just fine and need no hospital admission. The other 20% do need hospitalization and of that 20%, 25 to 50% need ventilators. Without the ventilators they would die. The whole purpose in slowing down the amount of cases with this virus is to allow healthcare to be able to treat people in the manner that is needed. They also said that if you need a ventilator it does not matter what age you are if you don’t get it you will die.I trust this information as it did not come from a political leader or the media and was repeated nearly Word for Word by every doctor I have researched that has been interviewed.

 

[gary_in_neenah]

"Why Weren't We Ready" That's a good thought starter, Sweeperguy. You covered a lot of ground there and most everyone is asking the same. Being one of the many furloughed, I've had lots of time to read and follow the current events. What follows is mostly opinion on my part. There are people with much higher pay grades than mine working the problems and we can hope that they come up with solutions to prevent this from happening again. So here goes...

The Government: They do a pretty good job with the frequent stuff like hurricanes, floods, and military/defense. But this pandemic was a "sucker punch" much like 9-11. They just didn't see it coming and when they did it was too late to stop it. I find it interesting that the State Governments that boasted of "sanctuary cities" were quick to request federal assistance in the form of money and materials when things started getting ugly.

HoardingProbably the best solution would be to implement a system like they had in WWII with ration cards and even then there were cheaters.

The MediaThere is no doubt in my mind that the national media is doing their best to harm the current administration. The name calling, the gotcha questions, and the daily ridicule would never have been allowed for the prior POTUS. If they can keep up the attacks until November, they may achieve their goal.

Any Good News? Not much but there may be some good things to come out of this mess. A vaccine and better preparedness are real possibilities. They keep telling us that "We'll get through this" and we will. There's been some overreaction by some of the governors and the damage to small business may be too much to overcome. No government stimulus is going to fix this, it'll be up to the middle class, you and I, to get things rolling again. You gotta believe that better days are coming. In the mean time, stay healthy and keep your family safe.

 

[whitedust]

Ventilators and masks are being mass produced now and being used quickly. The question is how do we store a supply of masks ,PPG and ventilators for many years so they can be rolled out for the next pandemic in good working condition?? This all costs money and I’d probably best funded by the government via our tax money I highly doubt hospitals have the money and means to store these products in mass. We also need to be able to fast track vaccines that’s the cure for pandemics.

 

[xcr440]

What a great post gary_in_neenah!! 100% agree with what you said except the ration cards (Yet), just use common sense here, buy what you need when you need it, the shelves are still being stocked! MOST places are not changing their orders, they are just receiving goods on the same usage scales they were before, and if people would buy it when they need it (Or when your personal supply starts running low) items would be there when everyone needs them.

 

[xcr440]

The MediaThere is no doubt in my mind that the national media is doing their best to harm the current administration. The name calling, the gotcha questions, and the daily ridicule would never have been allowed for the prior POTUS. If they can keep up the attacks until November, they may achieve their goal.

And I just wanted to call this out specifically - never seen anything like this before. Its absolutely ridiculous.

 

[whitedust]

And I just wanted to call this out specifically - never seen anything like this before. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Trump would be well advised to stop taking the bait of the gotcha questions! Ignore or move on to the next question just say “I already answered that question 10 times next question.”

 

[elf]

And I just wanted to call this out specifically - never seen anything like this before. Its absolutely ridiculous.

I agree 100%. When did CNN fact check everything previous presidents said? He could say the sky is blue and they'd come up with a reason that he's lying about it. Pretty disgusting and I'm not a huge fan of his but do respect the office.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

And I just wanted to call this out specifically - never seen anything like this before. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed!!!!! Thankfully, I feel most of the public are seeing through this. The media even has a lower approval rating than Congress, and that isn't easy to do!!!

 

[katden4]

its very clear that if you think the government is going to take care of you just because you pay taxes, you are in for some big disappointments. Watching the news this morning, yes bad idea I know, but they were talking about how much Illinois has set aside for situations like the Covid. This was quoted.

Mendoza is now publishing the state’s COVID checkbook online.

“When this crisis began, other states had billions in their rainy-day funds. We had $60,000,” she said. “That’s not even enough to pay for 30 seconds of expenses.”

Its hard watching the Illinois politicians throwing rocks at the feds, and then this comes out that they have NOTHING in place in case of an emergency. Easy to see why they throw rocks now, its clearly not their fault? What a joke, and completely embarrassing for the Illinois residents who pay one of the highest Tax rates in the US. I have a couple years that I still need to live here, and once that obligation is over, I will be doing a 40 mile burnout smoking the tires as I leave this state. I guess I have a bad attitude, but that's my opinion and how I feel about how all residents funds have been managed. In short, we need to take care of ourselves, nobody will do it for you. Be prepared, be careful, and you will be fine.

 

[Tracker]

Agreed KATDEN4....and Illinois is a microcosm of democratic rule and its accomplishments too boot....sad

 

[whitedust]

Governor of MI was the most ridiculous not allowing motor boat use but sail boats are permitted and residents were forbidden to visit their Northern cabins. Crazy stay in dense population areas and infect each other instead of going to remote locations to hang out with little population. Crazy decision imo.

 

[favoritos]

Why weren't we ready . . .
Money and funding the resources.
It takes a lot of money to build stockpiles.
Don’t get caught up in the political discussion about the topic. It doesn’t matter which side you are on. Nobody wins popularity contests by spending money to build inventory and the infrastructure to hold and distribute. And it costs a lot. The amount of money would stagger most people.
Just a bit of a background. I spent a bunch of time in the business of storing and distributing drugs and medical supplies. This country has a network of distribution that is set up to handle high needs in regional capacity. Product and supplies can be moved overnight to those regions. That is a huge deal. Patients can be treated the next day. The efficiency is pretty amazing. It is also incredibly expensive. The product is stored in climate controlled environments and live culture product is stored in “Bio Storage”. Vaccine is a bio storage product. Bio storage is expensive and most of the product has a limited shelf life. Shipping bio product is also expensive. The product integrity needs to be maintained to the end source. You can’t just throw in in a reefer trailer and hope it’s good. Hope doesn’t save lives. It takes strict temperature and environment controls throughout storage and shipping to guarantee safe product.
The dollars spent in inventory and distribution are big and the margins are small. Again, staggering amounts of money. Private industry can’t afford to carry inventory that will not be used in a timely manner. The current warehouse and distribution process is designed to serve local needs. It also has a distribution aspect to move product to regions with short term high demand. Moving product to those regions is easy and cheap compared to storing big buck inventory at each location. The process works extremely well if needs are regional.
Face masks, gloves, and other ancillary items are cheap compared to drugs and vaccines. They do not require much for climate controlled storage. They are low margin items that can be produced relatively quickly. Private industry would lose money filling expensive warehouse space with those items. The relatively small inventory they do carry is more of a customer support product. Manufacturers bear the brunt of that distribution.
I also worked with people that were sourced out to manage the SNS for H1N1. The responsibility for production, warehousing, and distribution for that was taken over by the government. It took time to set up. It took a lot of money. They also brought in the best of the best from private industry to manage the process. No one in private business would have done that kind of outlay. Too much money and no profit guarantee. Not a smart way to do business. The government took the risk and H1N1 turned out to be a dud. There were a lot of decision makers that saw that money spent and lost on a relatively minor outbreak. Private business sure wouldn’t spend the money. Elected officials saw it as an opportunity to save money. The vaccine expired. The ancillary inventory was allowed to slowly dwindle.
We would have been fine if C19 was contained at a regional level. We had plenty of resources in place. The early warning signs were not clear on how it spread. Some thought it could be contained. There were also plenty of anecdotal observations indicating that it was community spread. Scientific verification takes time. We didn’t use that time very effectively. It had spread beyond the regional level before we effectively started to take action.
There isn’t any popular way to spend money and build resources for something that might happen. It doesn’t help profits. It doesn’t get you elected. Now we are dealing with the unpopular options.
We will get through this. It has come down to each of us being a strong component of the solution. That is a unique twist to this problem. It isn’t a problem that belongs to someone else. This situation belongs to every single one of us. This guy actually sums it up pretty well. Start the vid at 2:50 and listen.

https://kstp.com/sports/university-...h-pj-fleck-row-the-boat-coronavirus-/5679085/

 

[sweeperguy]

Ventilators and masks are being mass produced now and being used quickly. The question is how do we store a supply of masks ,PPG and ventilators for many years so they can be rolled out for the next pandemic in good working condition?? This all costs money and I’d probably best funded by the government via our tax money I highly doubt hospitals have the money and means to store these products in mass. We also need to be able to fast track vaccines that’s the cure for pandemics.

Wouldn't have been hard at all to have PPG (N95 masks, face shields, and protective gowns) on hand and in storage. These items have no shelf life, and are relatively inexpensive. Having them could have saved many health care workers from getting the virus. People with loved ones in critical condition could have been "suited up" and allowed to vistit their loved ones, and say their final goodbyes. To many SAD stories of loved ones not being there. When patients were "on their death bed".
Ventilators maybe not so easy of solution, much more storage space required. But they should have had on hand more than the absolute minimum needed to supply ICU depts. Even out-dated ventilators could have made a difference, getting them on more of the patients that needed them. Instead of having to pick and choose who got hooked up to them.

"Why Weren't We Ready" That's a good thought starter, Sweeperguy. You covered a lot of ground there and most everyone is asking the same. Being one of the many furloughed, I've had lots of time to read and follow the current events. What follows is mostly opinion on my part. There are people with much higher pay grades than mine working the problems and we can hope that they come up with solutions to prevent this from happening again. So here goes...

The Government: They do a pretty good job with the frequent stuff like hurricanes, floods, and military/defense. But this pandemic was a "sucker punch" much like 9-11. They just didn't see it coming and when they did it was too late to stop it. I find it interesting that the State Governments that boasted of "sanctuary cities" were quick to request federal assistance in the form of money and materials when things started getting ugly.

HoardingProbably the best solution would be to implement a system like they had in WWII with ration cards and even then there were cheaters.

The MediaThere is no doubt in my mind that the national media is doing their best to harm the current administration. The name calling, the gotcha questions, and the daily ridicule would never have been allowed for the prior POTUS. If they can keep up the attacks until November, they may achieve their goal.

Any Good News? Not much but there may be some good things to come out of this mess. A vaccine and better preparedness are real possibilities. They keep telling us that "We'll get through this" and we will. There's been some overreaction by some of the governors and the damage to small business may be too much to overcome. No government stimulus is going to fix this, it'll be up to the middle class, you and I, to get things rolling again. You gotta believe that better days are coming. In the mean time, stay healthy and keep your family safe.

I'm upset that it they didn't see it coming. With all the terrorist activity, bombings etc. Seems the next mass attack could very well be, a Covid 19 type virus, unleashed in a highly concentrated, populated area. NY subway, professional sports stadium, state fair. It wouldn't take much of a scientist, to put something like this into a powder form (like anthrax). Release it into the air at a major event. It might not even be known it was done, until the incubation period starting people getting ill. By then with the highly contagious characteristics of this virus. It could be devastating. I can't be the only one that cans see this being a possibility.
With the SARS outbreaks of recent decades. This particular event should have been seen coming, not if but when. There have been people that publicly said that this was inevitable. Bill Gates and others stated this like 10 years ago, that this could happen.

Your missing my point on the hoard buying. This will end, ration cards would be for a situation with no end in sight. Product is being restored to store shelves. My point is the initial flash buying. Carts at every register filled with whatever product is being bought out. This time it was TP and Hand Sanitizer. During impending hurricanes and floods its water and other things. FEMA does do a fair job, with things like hurricanes, tornadoes and floods. But instead of needing hundreds of truckloads of water and such. If many had SOME, instead of a few having ALL. They would maybe only need 10's of trucks full of water.

NOT TOUCHING your statement about the Media. That is a purely political statement, that violates the rules of this board.

 

[whitedust]

Wouldn't have been hard at all to have PPG (N95 masks, face shields, and protective gowns) on hand and in storage. These items have no shelf life, and are relatively inexpensive. Having them could have saved many health care workers from getting the virus. People with loved ones in critical condition could have been "suited up" and allowed to vistit their loved ones, and say their final goodbyes. To many SAD stories of loved ones not being there. When patients were "on their death bed".
Ventilators maybe not so easy of solution, much more storage space required. But they should have had on hand more than the absolute minimum needed to supply ICU depts. Even out-dated ventilators could have made a difference, getting them on more of the patients that needed them. Instead of having to pick and choose who got hooked up to them.

Long term storage of PPP gear and ventilators are above my pay grade. I would think special packaging and kept in a sterile climate controlled facility is costly best run by the feds. I have worked on both military spec and pharmaceutical projects in my past. Lots of requirements must be in place to participate. Imo the feds will be on it now in a big way backed by public tax support. Unfortunately we learn by experience and spend money when we need too. In some ways Covid 19 is a wake up call to action. Right or wrong we learn and pay THE hard way just life in the USA.

 

[sweeperguy]

Wouldn't have been hard at all to have PPG (N95 masks, face shields, and protective gowns) on hand and in storage. These items have no shelf life, and are relatively inexpensive. Having them could have saved many health care workers from getting the virus. People with loved ones in critical condition could have been "suited up" and allowed to vistit their loved ones, and say their final goodbyes. To many SAD stories of loved ones not being there. When patients were "on their death bed".
Ventilators maybe not so easy of solution, much more storage space required. But they should have had on hand more than the absolute minimum needed to supply ICU depts. Even out-dated ventilators could have made a difference, getting them on more of the patients that needed them. Instead of having to pick and choose who got hooked up to them.

Long term storage of PPP gear and ventilators are above my pay grade. I would think special packaging and kept in a sterile climate controlled facility is costly best run by the feds. I have worked on both military spec and pharmaceutical projects in my past. Lots of requirements must be in place to participate. Imo the feds will be on it now in a big way backed by public tax support. Unfortunately we learn by experience and spend money when we need too. In some ways Covid 19 is a wake up call to action. Right or wrong we learn and pay THE hard way just life in the USA.

Wouldn't need sterile storage. A dry, heated and cooled building would be about all would be needed. A small heated cooled building, a couple thousand Sq. Ft. would not tax their heating and cooling capabilities. Masks, face sheilds, and protective gowns, could be stored on site in a storage building on the property. Wouldn't even be that hard to rotate, older stock into the currently to be used storage in the facility. And replace with newer in coming stock in the long term storage, as these supplies are being used. Simple rotation strategy.
Ventilators now, Yes would be a more complicated situation. But having just the bare minimum on site is a mistake IMO. Probably other medical equipment that each hospital should have on hand, that they currently don't have extras of

 

[dfattack]

All I know is when things get back close to normal I'm getting a bunch of TP, storing it in plastic containers in the attic along with other "essentials" that were missing from the shelves. No, we were not ready and should have been. As I citizen I was assuming the various government agencies who are paid to plan for these situations were doing their job. Maybe they were and weren't getting the funding from Congress. Who knows. Either way I pray to God they learn their lesson and are better prepared for next time...and there will be a next time especially since the power hungry leaders realized they can shut things down so quickly.

Now...Are they actually ready for an EMP? Can you image if that ever were to happen? The chaos would be unbelievable.

 

[favoritos]

Storage of PPE isn't that complicated in terms of environment. Temp, humidity, and sanitary requirements have a large range because of packaging and material durability. It is the cost that is complicated. Nobody made money in the past by storing enough PPE to react to this type of situation.
The feds are good at setting the rules. They are not as effective at implementation. They use supply contracts with private business to handle warehousing and distribution. Those contracts require the business to be responsible for compliance if they want to do business with the feds. The feds manage much of that process with an audit process. It is the most efficient. We had higher standards than the feds own compliance rules. Why? There is too much money to be lost if you aren't ready for a random audit. We also had inventory to protect. Expensive inventory. Again, you would be amazed by the dollars.
A simple contract agreement that required PPE for all would have covered the need. But, who would ask for that kind of money? The agreements would need to have language covering the cost of inventory required above and beyond typical use. Those contracts would require the destruction of any outdated product. Expired ventilators or PPE would be destroyed. There is no method of compliance that allows for outdated product to be used. It is a safety protocol built into the process. Distribution and redistribution businesses can not send out dated product. Private individuals can currently store and use past the dating.(Discretionary useage) There is a process in place to change those rules at the individual level.

We could hand storage and distribution to the Feds. I have a good idea how their efficiency would compare. It would certainly give all of us a common enemy.

 

[sweeperguy]

All I know is when things get back close to normal I'm getting a bunch of TP, storing it in plastic containers in the attic along with other "essentials" that were missing from the shelves. No, we were not ready and should have been. As I citizen I was assuming the various government agencies who are paid to plan for these situations were doing their job. Maybe they were and weren't getting the funding from Congress. Who knows. Either way I pray to God they learn their lesson and are better prepared for next time...and there will be a next time especially since the power hungry leaders realized they can shut things down so quickly.

Now...Are they actually ready for an EMP? Can you image if that ever were to happen? The chaos would be unbelievable.

In bold. That's why I'll be stepping up my emergency preparedness. I weathered this one just fine. But had it been a WORSE. I might have felt a pinch. I'm not going full bore prepper. But it did make me take stock of my resources, found myself a little less prepared than I should be. For a more catastrophic event.
EDIT:
Toilet paper is rather low on my list of future necessary items needed.

 

[euphoric1]

All I know is when things get back close to normal I'm getting a bunch of TP, storing it in plastic containers in the attic along with other "essentials" that were missing from the shelves. No, we were not ready and should have been. As I citizen I was assuming the various government agencies who are paid to plan for these situations were doing their job. Maybe they were and weren't getting the funding from Congress. Who knows. Either way I pray to God they learn their lesson and are better prepared for next time...and there will be a next time especially since the power hungry leaders realized they can shut things down so quickly.

Now...Are they actually ready for an EMP? Can you image if that ever were to happen? The chaos would be unbelievable.

Not referring to you dfattack so don't take this that way but it is so easy to blame someone for inaction I don't care what party you are I would not want to be at that podium right now, everyone can say... I would have done this or that but until you are thrusted into that situation saying so after the fact is just words nothing more, and shame on the other party to launch an investigation... more waste of tax dollars that we cannot clearly afford. I hope we learn a lesson by this, I also hope society learns its lesson as well. I don't think as a whole we are prepared for what is to come if this continues.