Wisconsin AB 407 / SB 343 - Snowmobile registration, trail use sticker and funding

[whitedust]

There is not as much concern over cap/step as you seem to think. I actually have not talked to anyone in person that opposes this, only on here. There was concern voiced in the general session and during the workshop session, but they were discussed and alleviated. It is not complicated as poeple think either. If you are not a club member, you buy the trail pass from a vender or get it in the mail. If you are a club member and in AWSC you get your trail pass through the AWSC, as this will be the only place to get a trail pass for the club member price. Not to complicated to me. The family argument is out the window, too. If a family on a budget would join a club and the AWSC, they would get a discount on all the families sleds. Why wouldn't a family do that? And if one child in that family stays in a club into adulthood, that would be what this bill is going for.

85% of snowmobilers are not in the AWSC. To me that is astounding. Way to high. That means 85% of snowmobilers do not know that there is a lawsuit challenging the right of snowmobiliers to operate on the DOT right of way of roads and ditches. This arose out of St. Germain. Why any snowmobiler would not join an organization that fights for your rights for ten bucks is beyond me. I understand someone may not agree with everything they do, but I'd bet a 35 MPH speed limit would happen faster without the AWSC around!


An out of state trail pass will be $50.

The lawsuit by 1 St Germain couple is very entertaining but going no where. Some people just won't give up a lost cause.The last I heard the suit might be heard by the WI supreme court as lost in every court in WI so far. Please don't blow this into a big threat to snowmobiling because it is NOT. Just 2 people that don't want a trail in front of their home simple as that & NOT willing to give up. If you want to use this case as an example let people know the facts nothing more than a grasping at straws lawsuit. Geepers creepers!

 

[united]

It seems like people keep saying this will encourage non-members to join a club. Can someone please, please tell me how this encourages non-members to join? Am I missing something?

Now member permits will only be available thought the AWSC? It already sounds like it is going to be easier to bypass the AWSC and just go direct to get the permit.

 

[whitedust]

It seems like people keep saying this will encourage non-members to join a club. Can someone please, please tell me how this encourages non-members to join? Am I missing something?

Now member permits will only be available thought the AWSC? It already sounds like it is going to be easier to bypass the AWSC and just go direct to get the permit.

For 1 sled owners sounds the same to me best to go thru the state. This has not passed yet so I'm not worrying about it yet. My impression of Gov Walker is KISS method & NOT over complicate things to keep costs down just can't see him embracing such a complicated plan as not his past style to support high administration costs. I would luv to see Walker boil this thing down make it workable & simple.

 

[groomerdriver]

With Cap/Step, the Wisconsin snowmobile program will divide the snowmobilers for certain instead of keeping them united.

For somebody that just joined this forum in September 2013 you sure have a frequent negative posture regarding this issue.....just saying.

Bottom line is that if there are no clubs then there are no trails. Of course the 85% of the freeloaders don't want to pay more but yet they feel entitled to trails to ride on...and smooth ones to boot.

 

[skutr]

For somebody that just joined this forum in September 2013 you sure have a frequent negative posture regarding this issue.....just saying.

Bottom line is that if there are no clubs then there are no trails. Of course the 85% of the freeloaders don't want to pay more but yet they feel entitled to trails to ride on...and smooth ones to boot.

I don't want to pay more but please DO NOT assume that I am a "freeloader" because I don't want to pay $300 for my family of 4 pay to ride! BTW - I do belong to a club and I do not support this stupid "pay to play" idea.

Snowmobiling is quickly turning into "country club" where if you disagree with the "club" or don't stand up to ride, or don't have 136+ inch track, or a don't have a Klim snow suit, or a don't have Go Pro strapped to your modular helmet, or an don't have an enclosed 4-place trailer, or don't take 3 trips to the U.P. each winter, or put a high mark on the side of a mountain in Wyoming, or don't have (fill-in-the-blank) you are somehow not seen as someone worthy to ride.

If anyone feels the need to flame that's fine because I've got my big girl panties on but I will not support this.

 

[jr37]

It seems like people keep saying this will encourage non-members to join a club. Can someone please, please tell me how this encourages non-members to join? Am I missing something?

Now member permits will only be available thought the AWSC? It already sounds like it is going to be easier to bypass the AWSC and just go direct to get the permit.

I don't know if this will encourage people to join a club or not, I hope it does. If they join a club, they will probably recieve a newsletter and the Wisconsin Snowmobile News. That alone makes them more informed than before. The more that they learn the better. They may learn that the volunteers actually volunteer more than just their time. They donate the truck and ATV to sign and brush the trails, the chainsaw or polesaw to brush the trails, vehicles to run to the groommer shed to volunteer a day or night in a groomer, a vehicle to run for parts for a broke down machine, running to various meetings, helping a fellow groomer operator who has trouble in the middle of the night. Should I go on? Who knows, maybe they will learn enough to want to get invovled and help. Every club could use that.

If you add it all up, the non-member is still getting one heck of a deal.

 

[xcsp]

This was posted on the AWSC website yesterday...


November 4, 2013 Legislative Update

PUBLIC HEARING

Committee on Tourism

The committee will hold a public hearing on the following items at the time specified below:

Wednesday, November 13, 2013

10:00 AM

328 Northwest
Madison, WI

Assembly Bill 407

Relating to: snowmobile registration, trail use sticker requirements, and funding for supplemental snowmobile trail aids.

By Representatives Czaja, Danou, Ballweg, Bernier, Bies, Endsley, Hesselbein, Hulsey, Jorgensen, Kahl, Kolste, T. Larson, LeMahieu, Milroy, Murphy, A. Ott, Ohnstad,Petryk, Ripp, Wachs, Weatherston, Weininger, Swearingen, Brooks, Wright, Born, Knodland Thiesfeldt; cosponsored by Senators Gudex, Jauch, Cowles, T. Cullen, Erpenbach, Hansen, Harsdorf, Lassa, Leibham, Olsen, Shilling, L. Taylor, Vinehout and Lehman.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/proposals/ab407



Want to send an e-mail to those in support of the proposal and let them know your thoughts, go here, click on their name, brings up their page with contact info & e-mail address.

It also has the Assembly Bill & related info there.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/proposals/ab407


Committee on Tourism list and contact info is here:

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/Pages/comm-info.aspx?c=1113

 

[renegade]

Please don't blow this into a big threat to snowmobiling because it is NOT. Just 2 people that don't want a trail in front of their home simple as that & NOT willing to give up.

Not trying to scare anyone. Just an example what the AWSC does for a snowmobiler. Hoe many people knew about this lawsuit? Or the newest lawsuit filed by the Winter Wildlands Alliance that could affect the National Forests in Wisconsin. AWSC has already sent money to help defend this lawsuit before I knew about it. All for 10 bucks a year. Snowmobilers need someone to watch their backs. Anybody know of another sport that is scrutinized as much as snowmobiling?

I don't want to pay more but please DO NOT assume that I am a "freeloader" because I don't want to pay $300 for my family of 4 pay to ride! BTW - I do belong to a club and I do not support this stupid "pay to play" idea.

This bill is not nearly as complicated as poeple are making it seem. It is much better than previous cap/step bills. The purpose of the bill is to try to get poeple to join clubs and the AWSC. If someone owns multiple sleds, they would seriously look at joining a club to reduce the costs of multiple trail passes. Once in a club, maybe they would get a better understanding of what a club actually does, like put in the trails. In the example above, the said family would join a club for $20-$30 and register, assuming four sleds for $15 a year and trail pass for $15 per year. So four sleds will costs this family approx. $150 a year. Not an extreme increase at all. So its family friendly, and its equitable. Much more equitable than it is now. The only reason to hate this bill is if you hate the AWSC. If you hate them that bad, then I guess you will not join and pay the extra money to join a club as a non AWSC member.

 

[xcr440]

If someone owns multiple sleds, they would seriously look at joining a club to reduce the costs of multiple trail passes.

Go back to post #1. If those numbers are right, the cost is THE SAME, joining a club or not. NO SAVINGS to the average snowmobiler to join a club.

However, where the advantage comes into play, is $20 of your fees GO TO A CLUB DIRECTLY. THIS is what the clubs need to keep operating as jr37 consistently keeps pointing out. THIS is the education people who do not join need, is to realize, your measily $50 registration is NOTHING to enjoy the time and effort that less than 5% of people who ride put in.

 

[renegade]

Assuming the average snowmobiler owns 1 sled, there is no savings whether your join a club or not. Unless you are in a club and not in the AWSC, then you would pay extra money for your club dues. That is a small percentage. Right now 100% of club members pay more than non club members and their reward is all the trail work so non club members can ride. This bill levels the playing field for club vs. non club members, allows savings for multi sled owners as long as they join a club. This will help families and increase club membership. In my opinion, all valid arguments agianst this bill have been answered. The only ones that can't be answered are emotionally driven. There are those that don't like change at all, those that don't like the AWSC, and those that just don't want an increase at all. But if you can take emotion out of your ability to decide on this, it really is a good bill that has the potential to do what is intended. Get more money in the snowmobile fund and to increase club membership while protecting families a bit from a increase in annual sledding costs that may be hard to swallow.

 

[xcr440]

Ok, well said.

 

[xcsp]

Looking around on the AWSC site about this whole CAP/Step thing and came across the following at this link:

http://tinyurl.com/kaord8u

What became of the following One-Time Registration proposal?

LRB-3295 makes registration of a snowmobile a one-time event rather than a requirement every two years. Annual trail passes would need to be purchased and displayed.

LRB-3295 also sets the cost of an annual trail pass at $35.00, and essentially provides a credit of $20.00 to snowmobile club and AWSC members who have, on average paid that same amount in annual dues. The cost of an annual trail pass for these AWSC and club members would be $15.00.

This legislation is designed to generate revenue for the Snowmobile Program while providing an incentive for sled owners to become active members of local clubs. To see the official text of LRB-3295, please click on the link: http://tinyurl.com/kpp6fkl


****************************************************
Did a little more searching, found this and it appears that the one-time registration is still part of the proposal? Below is where I found it:

http://tinyurl.com/l6ksr7n

 

[zozo2]

Lots of good points being brought up, but the basic concept of having two different registration/fee rates depending on whether or not you belong to a private snowmobile organization is just plain wrong. The trails are open for the public to use, and snowmobilers should not be penalized because of who they are (or are not). This is Cap/Step’s biggest failure, get rid of it and I would be happy to support it. And don’t even bother arguing that without trails there will be no snowmobiling. Only an idiot would keep bringing that up. Everyone knows this. The trails will always be there because snowmobilers want a place to ride. This is how everything started way back in the 1960’s, before AWSC was even invented. I was one who helped put in those trails and no one even belonged to something called AWSC. And even today, many trails are still being put in and maintained by non-AWSC clubs and by non-club members. Then, when AWSC came along, things got better, and rolled along nicely for a long time, until someone somewhere decided that non-club members needed to be fined for not belonging to a club. That pretty much stalled out our registration process which funds the program and had slowly been increasing as the economy increased. When one of the registration increase bills was signed by the governor, AWSC proudly stated that it showed that the snowmobilers were not afraid to support their Wisconsin snowmobile program by raising their own fees. Boy did that ever stop fast when Cap/Step type stuff started coming out of the garbage pail. Like I said, get rid of the two-tier fee structure and lets move on. (And I apologize if I sounded too negative to one writer, all I have been doing is stating the facts, too bad that this was interpreted to mean I was a negative person but I do understand and have been promoting what is going to be best to keep the program strong.) Now go outside and look at the pretty snowflakes starting to come down, and get excited about our season coming on fast.

 

[jr37]

Looking around on the AWSC site about this whole CAP/Step thing and came across the following at this link:

http://tinyurl.com/kaord8u

What became of the following One-Time Registration proposal?

LRB-3295 makes registration of a snowmobile a one-time event rather than a requirement every two years. Annual trail passes would need to be purchased and displayed.

LRB-3295 also sets the cost of an annual trail pass at $35.00, and essentially provides a credit of $20.00 to snowmobile club and AWSC members who have, on average paid that same amount in annual dues. The cost of an annual trail pass for these AWSC and club members would be $15.00.

This legislation is designed to generate revenue for the Snowmobile Program while providing an incentive for sled owners to become active members of local clubs. To see the official text of LRB-3295, please click on the link: http://tinyurl.com/kpp6fkl


****************************************************
Did a little more searching, found this and it appears that the one-time registration is still part of the proposal? Below is where I found it:

http://tinyurl.com/l6ksr7n

This is all old news, it is not what the current bill is. Please refer to LB407/SB343.

 

[xcsp]

This is all old news, it is not what the current bill is. Please refer to LB407/SB343.

That's what I wanted to know, that they did drop the one-time registration proposal.

I found by going back on to the AWSC site, looking for a link that I had posted on this thread, and it appears they removed the info??? What's with that?

 

[arctic]

More barriers to entry for a sport that is increasingly shrinking year after year is not a smart decision. If you want to increase funding do it through consumption taxes and not up front costs like registration and trail passes. I realize the seasons have been inconsistent, but it's a much better program if you fund it through consumption vs. upfront costs. The latter will shrink your market. Let's not forget the folks that will run the risk of operating without registration/trail pass cause the fines haven't changed but the fees have...

 

[groomerdriver]

More barriers to entry for a sport that is increasingly shrinking year after year is not a smart decision. If you want to increase funding do it through consumption taxes and not up front costs like registration and trail passes. I realize the seasons have been inconsistent, but it's a much better program if you fund it through consumption vs. upfront costs. The latter will shrink your market. Let's not forget the folks that will run the risk of operating without registration/trail pass cause the fines haven't changed but the fees have...

How would you propose "consumption" to be defined?

 

[xcsp]

This is all old news, it is not what the current bill is. Please refer to LB407/SB343.

So I find this over on the AWSC site, dated June 26th,2013 LRB-1354 says registration would be a one-time event, if it's not part of the "bill", why do they state it?


http://www.awsc.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=X0rPKxJ2POI=&tabid=244&mid=1269

 

[renegade]

This is the original bill which has been amended after recommendations by the SRC and other legislatures that have signed on to the final bill. If you go to the Wisconsin government website and search for LB-407 you can read all the amendments, and what the final bill reads. The link on the homepage will get you there. No need to dig. That is old news and I'm sure will be removed eventually.

 

[xcsp]

This is the original bill which has been amended after recommendations by the SRC and other legislatures that have signed on to the final bill. If you go to the Wisconsin government website and search for LB-407 you can read all the amendments, and what the final bill reads. The link on the homepage will get you there. No need to dig. That is old news and I'm sure will be removed eventually.

Yes, I found out it was "old news", but find it odd that the "old" info was not (re)moved but I suppose they figure most snowmobile enthusiast have better things to do than look at legislation proposals.