Wood to ethanol plant approved for Kinross area
- Thread starter anonomoose
- Start date
So at a quick glance we have another business with almost 50% of its funds coming from grants, TAX!!!!! Then we will put it into our fuel that our vehicles don't like and kills our small engines lawnmowers, outboards, snowmobiles. Drops fuel economy.
sounds like a good plan to me????????
Doomed to fail. (JMHO)
This is a industry in its inference, when its ready to put out what it cost to run it will be done by company's looking to make a profit not looking for grant money to keep it floating.
sounds like a good plan to me????????
Doomed to fail. (JMHO)
This is a industry in its inference, when its ready to put out what it cost to run it will be done by company's looking to make a profit not looking for grant money to keep it floating.
but you are not to look at the facts! just that it is there and creating jobs.facts on funding and energy used to produce compared to energy out put just get in the way of the message.hope and change is working jobs are being created and we are on our way to energy independence.
now if you will excuse mi I have to go spit this vomit out of my mouth.
now if you will excuse mi I have to go spit this vomit out of my mouth.
F
fusion
Guest
More government subsidies for a product nobody wants, and nobody would buy, if it were allowed to stand on it's own in competition with non reformulated fuel.
This is just another big bone thrown by the liberals to the huge corn lobbyists.
If I never saw another ethanol pump, I wouldn't miss it one bit, and wouldn't ask where it went.
This is just another big bone thrown by the liberals to the huge corn lobbyists.
If I never saw another ethanol pump, I wouldn't miss it one bit, and wouldn't ask where it went.
Ah Ezz... You made me pass a sunflower seed through my nose! Wouldn't have been so bad except for the fact it was barbecue flavored and that crap stings. Thanks for the moment.
-John
anonomoose
New member
Geez....the anti change posse is out in full force.
Why are we so anti subsidy? Most countries subsidize the heck out of anything they want to get established and even when the process seems doomed to fail.
Some will, and maybe even most will, but not all do, and those that don't will eventually employ people, and pay taxes and create a revenue stream.
Could the lumber industry use a boost right about now with the paper companies failing regularly? The timber industry is a good renewable industry and it can employ locals who CAN make good money cutting the stuff up and shipping it to a plant like the above.
If you want to start casting stones, do some research on the subsidized industries which we are ALREADY funding. The numbers are huge...we even spend billions on foreign aid to make people like us.
Yet when it comes to energy, we need to stick it out with oil? We should not help any industry that is trying to compete with OIL companies?
Most folks are quick to judge but I am far more lenient when it comes to getting off the energy merry-go-round....and I do support any efforts along those lines even if they are "likely" to fail because, often something else will spin off of the process that can and WILL make a profit and a difference.
btw, I use 10% ethanol in everything I own, including old outboard engines, chainsaws, snowblower, ATV's, and weed whackers, and have NEVER had the engine burn up....explode, or self destruct....of course I take good care of my equipment and I even read the manuals that come with them and I also know that ethanol has been around since Kennedy was doing interns...and the stuff has never caused me a problem...so I expect that most of the issues involve "user error".
Why are we so anti subsidy? Most countries subsidize the heck out of anything they want to get established and even when the process seems doomed to fail.
Some will, and maybe even most will, but not all do, and those that don't will eventually employ people, and pay taxes and create a revenue stream.
Could the lumber industry use a boost right about now with the paper companies failing regularly? The timber industry is a good renewable industry and it can employ locals who CAN make good money cutting the stuff up and shipping it to a plant like the above.
If you want to start casting stones, do some research on the subsidized industries which we are ALREADY funding. The numbers are huge...we even spend billions on foreign aid to make people like us.
Yet when it comes to energy, we need to stick it out with oil? We should not help any industry that is trying to compete with OIL companies?
Most folks are quick to judge but I am far more lenient when it comes to getting off the energy merry-go-round....and I do support any efforts along those lines even if they are "likely" to fail because, often something else will spin off of the process that can and WILL make a profit and a difference.
btw, I use 10% ethanol in everything I own, including old outboard engines, chainsaws, snowblower, ATV's, and weed whackers, and have NEVER had the engine burn up....explode, or self destruct....of course I take good care of my equipment and I even read the manuals that come with them and I also know that ethanol has been around since Kennedy was doing interns...and the stuff has never caused me a problem...so I expect that most of the issues involve "user error".
Be careful when criticizing about subsidizing. First off, depending on how you define a subsidy(import/export/tariff/taxes) really impacts what you would think is subsidized.
Reference which industries actually receive these and you would be amazed. Some of the main industries that receive billions of dollars are Energy, (yes your petroleum companies whom reap billions in profits receive huge subsidies) Agriculture, and Transportation. The list literally goes on and on, it would probably make most people sick.
Also, there are elements of snowmobiling (depending on your state) that either receives subsidies or enjoy the effects of subsidies. Yes, your trail permit pays for maintainence, etc... but many trails use public lands, public roads, etc.. which are often subsidized units.
I am not a big fan of a lot of subsidies but I understand how they work and there function within business development.
Reference which industries actually receive these and you would be amazed. Some of the main industries that receive billions of dollars are Energy, (yes your petroleum companies whom reap billions in profits receive huge subsidies) Agriculture, and Transportation. The list literally goes on and on, it would probably make most people sick.
Also, there are elements of snowmobiling (depending on your state) that either receives subsidies or enjoy the effects of subsidies. Yes, your trail permit pays for maintainence, etc... but many trails use public lands, public roads, etc.. which are often subsidized units.
I am not a big fan of a lot of subsidies but I understand how they work and there function within business development.
D
Deleted member 10829
Guest
I'm in favor of no subsidies. If it's something that the consumer wants, private industry will make it happen. I'm tired of seeing our money wasted on things that the consumer doesn't want. You can subsidize all you want, but unless the consumer is going to purchase it, it's like throwing money away. The Chevy Volt is a perfect example of that!
I'm sure Greece was big on subsidies, and look at them now. I could care less what any other country does, we are the greatest country on earth, we need to start acting like it and pull our heads out of our rear ends!
I'm sure Greece was big on subsidies, and look at them now. I could care less what any other country does, we are the greatest country on earth, we need to start acting like it and pull our heads out of our rear ends!
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IT IS NOT THE GOV JOB!!!!!! where in the Constitution is it stated that the fed gov is required to give welfare to business?
I am sick of it and if we dont wake up real soon the party is going to end.
Aware of the tendency of power to degenerate into abuse',the worthies of our country have secured its independence by the establishment of a constitution and form of government for our nation,calculated to prevent as well as to correct abuse.
Thomas Jefferson
We are bound to defray expenses within our own time,and are Unauthorized to burden posterity with them.....We shal all consider ourselves morally bound to pay them ourselves and consequently within the life of the majority.
Thomas Jefferson.
Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and Happiness of a people whos manners are univesally corrupt.
Samuel Adams.
think these guys were thinking god I hope our Gov gets so big that it can pick the winners and loosers in this world ?
WAKE UP PEOPLE
X2
G
G
Guest
Natural gas is currently priced at about a ten year low. We have more Natural Gas than we know what to do with. Guess what - Natural Gas burns just fine without starting a whole new refining process. Instead of dumping a bunch of money into what amounts to an 'experiment' why not just use what we already have??????? I suppose the reason is that not enough folks could bilk they system out of millions and have nothing to show for it. Stupid government.
F
fusion
Guest
Well said. And you see, it really doesn't take six paragraphs, and a major essay to debate this subject effectively. Generally, the more a person needs to spin and defend, the more words are written and spoken. Something about "the empty drum making the most noise"?
We can no longer afford to subsidize every failing business, as is evident by our EXPLODING debt load, and anemic GDP growth to support said debt.
Federal government is on life support, but just doesn't know it yet. Big changes are coming, and will be necessary to save us from entitlements, big government programs, and yes, subsidies we can no longer afford. The free market is self correcting if government would step aside and allow business to grow and prosper.
Unfortunately our government is a malfunctioning machine, on tilt to the suggestion of the big financial special interest lobbyists. Remember that joke legislation that was supposed to address campaign finance reform? (McCain and Feingold) Guess what - it did nothing, as we still have SUPER PACS and ways to evade the law.
I agree about not liking subsidies but if you really don't want the government picking winners or losers then basically throw out most American jobs. Look at import tariffs or other "manipulations" in the economy. Good bye to the majority of jobs. If it is a true "open and free" market then American companies will move to third world countries, produce the same products at half the price, and sell them back here in the US. Its already happening but it would be even worse. Plain and simple, if you are a true American and want to boast of being away with government then you better be buying straight American made products. If not, its all talk.
hey ananomoose, i can't afford the trip to the U.P. right now but I really want to spend some money, so how about subsidizing my trip? I promise that for every $1,000.00 you give me I will spend at least a couple hundred up there! Just think of how much you could help the locals! 
I like that pm me and I will shoot you my address moose and I will go with Jonesin and I promise we will only run E85 all the way up in the tow rig I only get about 20% worse mileage but hay keeping it real with our 2k you are going to send.
from what I understand places like steamboat are really hurting this yr from lack of snow so if you want to make it 2k each we can do that also got to spread the wealth.
from what I understand places like steamboat are really hurting this yr from lack of snow so if you want to make it 2k each we can do that also got to spread the wealth.
There is a wood Biomass plant being built in Wausau right now for electricity generation.
My question is: What will our forest look like in a number of years after the loggers take everything when they log it? There will be no brush for small critters to live in, no brush to promote regrowth. I am by no means a tree hugger, and one of my very good friends owns a logging company. I am just asking in hopes that someone may have some facts, not opinions, on what is going to happen.
My question is: What will our forest look like in a number of years after the loggers take everything when they log it? There will be no brush for small critters to live in, no brush to promote regrowth. I am by no means a tree hugger, and one of my very good friends owns a logging company. I am just asking in hopes that someone may have some facts, not opinions, on what is going to happen.
Totally irrelevant.
I am not going to weigh in on either side of subsidy good or subsidy bad, but dividing the amount of money by the jobs is totally irrelevant. Why? Because to build the plant takes contractors, who buy equipment from dealers, who order it from manufacturers, who get raw material from suppliers. The plant buys supplies as it operates, like electricity, parts, equipment, which is ordered from suppliers, which is ordered from producers. And all those people up and down the supply line, and those 60 jobs themselves buy cars, and refrigerators, and blue jeans, and groceries, and the new I-Phone. And if the business succeeds, this ripple effect continues.
Again, not weighing on on pro or con subsidy, but you need to understand the fundamental ripple effect on the economy when jobs are created. It is not 60 jobs. It is $232,000,000 spent in the economy just to get the plant started. The $232M is not static, it is not dropped in the parking lot in a brown paper bag and swept away by the wind, never to be seen again.