Work is not getting easier

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racerx

Active member
Well I do not know where to start but I know how this ends...well at least up to today.

Anywho, to keep along story short I'm in a total bind with my "new" job since on the 2nd "official" day they want me to cut someone's salary. Funny thing is I was approached 1.5months ago saying you will now be in charge of these guys (which is in a completely different department, CNC programming) in addition to the the shop guys I already have and by the way no mention of an increase in pay. No big deal I think up front as thes guys needed some sensible/knowledgable direction and I'll deal with the no pay. Well that was 1.5 months ago and I then heard off and on when it would start with the most latest it was supposed to be this past Monday which did not happen. So now there is a company announcement of "selective" wage increases on Tuesday and by Wednesday I'm receiving the salary report sheet on my "new reports" that are not even officially mine. So the following day it is annouced and I say that figures... So you may think no big deal which is true and i just chalked it up to the way things are. But over the last few days the VP/Manuf has been bugging me about one guy in particular but I figured I would not have to do anything since the employees generally are due for a raise but the one guy would not qualify according to the report. Now here is the good part, I get called in the office today to review this guys salary in that they do not feel he should have his current title and I need to come up with his salary to be "inline" with others in the department and this could possible be a cut up to 20k. I told HR I was not happy with being handed this on my 2nd day especially since this guy has been here way longer than I have,has more knowledge than they are giving him credit for, no to mention they created this mess and have had plenty of time to deal with it over the years including during 2 layoffs. A lot of the grief this guy is getting is a recent failure of a small project which I do not think he was completely to blame and I thought I addressed that the other day with the employee and my boss, I guess not...One additional problem is he is the only salary guy out of the group but he does work late, yet I am supposed to figure his salary when the other guys get overtime.

I just had a talk yesterday to this gent to get his head back in the game which seemed to go well, now I have to take the axe to his paycheck...I am totally PO'd and this is making me sick...

Soory this was longer than I expected and still missing a few details but I did cover a lot of the problem... I just had to vent
 
R

racerx

Active member
doomsman said:
Discuss it with your boss calmly then follow his
direction. Case closed.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you are saying I'm making to much of this...Thing is he is giving me no direction except basically it has to change. He did ask me my thoughts earlier and then proceeded to put every comment of mine down, which at that point I wondered why the heck he even bothered to ask in the first place. I could easily live with not giving the guy a raise but the 20k cut and then I have to deal with the aftermath. It would be one thing if we were at a time with normal day to day activities but the timing is bad because we have this high profile project of getting some very expensive machines up and running that none of us have experience with, the $$ involved are the most that I have seen us buy in the twenty years I have been there, not to mention they completely upgraded our CAD/CAM system at the same time which that alone is a major undertaking.

I have no problems making unpopular decisions, been there and done that, but to have this to do after "being on the job" for 2 days now, does not compute
 
mrsrunningbear

mrsrunningbear

Active member
racerx said:
I'm guessing you are saying I'm making to much of this...Thing is he is giving me no direction except basically it has to change. He did ask me my thoughts earlier and then proceeded to put every comment of mine down, which at that point I wondered why the heck he even bothered to ask in the first place. I could easily live with not giving the guy a raise but the 20k cut and then I have to deal with the aftermath. It would be one thing if we were at a time with normal day to day activities but the timing is bad because we have this high profile project of getting some very expensive machines up and running that none of us have experience with, the $$ involved are the most that I have seen us buy in the twenty years I have been there, not to mention they completely upgraded our CAD/CAM system at the same time which that alone is a major undertaking.

I have no problems making unpopular decisions, been there and done that, but to have this to do after "being on the job" for 2 days now, does not compute
Click to expand...

Wow Jon so sorry to hear this. What a headache! You'll make the right decision thats good for you I know you will. You just have to find some way not to let it eat you up (which it sounds like it doing) Remember it's a job go home at the end of the day and try to forget about it. I know eaiser said than done, but you don't want the job to take you down...it's a job!
Hope we see you soon...I'm thinking the 4th
Hang in there my friend!!
 
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dcsnomo

Moderator
OK, this issue could get messy.

The problem I see is that neither you nor the company have separated the salary issue from the performance issue.

If this is a performance issue, then there has to be a paper trail. The specifics of this are very clear in both federal and state employment regs. I'm sure you know this, but here's a refresher:
1) verbal warning or performance discussion, documented in his file. You have done that, did you put documentation in his file?
2) Written warning, explaining performance shortfalls, defining measurable performance goals to acceptable performance. This should also spell out possible discipline, in this case, salary reduction (which is weak, btw)
3) Suspension, documented, with performance requirements spelled out
4) Termination, or in this case, salary reduction

If the employee meets the necessary performance requirements spelled out in the progressive discipline then you cannot execute the punishment (the salary reduction).

If this is a salary/cost/budgeting issue then there needs to be a program or policy of some sort to show that ALL employees in that situation were treated equally. That is, the company develops a cost cutting program that says "ALL salaried employees in these departments that make x% over the hourly median will become hourly employees at no more than x% over the median", or something like that.

If you lop $20k of this guy's salary with no progressive discipline and/or no company "cost control" policy then you have singled him out unfairly and your azz will be in front of a Labor Dept Case worker so fast your head will spin.

What has happened here (I suspect) is that this guy has been a problem, nobody has dealt with it or documented it, and now they can get the new guy (you) to clean up the turd pile.

Go to HR and ask for all documentation concerning this employee. The you and your boss start at the beginning with specific behaviors that must be corrected, or the penalty will be a $20k cut. The go verbal, written, suspend, pay cut, AND DOCUMENT EVERY MOVE.

Good luck, remember that you can always contact a State Dept of Labor gnome by phone anonymously to ask for guidance.
 
R

racerx

Active member
Thanx all for the replies, guess I have to clear it out of my head, suppose I must follo the the saying to "accept the things I can not change" or in this case the thing I have to change, his pay.

Linda, you hit the nail on the head as this has been eating at me as I write this I have not slept all night, but Thanx a ton for the words of support!! I have never wanted to be in supervision but in my 30 years, 28 of those I have been in that position but I always felt I had to stick-up and go to bat for the "underdogs" and represent them in this non-union field, altho on the other hand my guys will tell you I expected a lot from them but they would not have it any other way. I believe I have a way to deal with both sides which what has kept me in this position even tho sometimes I do not come over as "corporate" to upper management but I guess they keep me for results, altho I do know the limits I can go.

With that being said, I definitely need to get up nort, it might not be around the holiday as everyone does that but it will be the near future, especially since I have been talking about hitting the clays at the Gateway which I have been wanting to do, been down to Brokaw quite a few times for clays but go figure never to the Gateway. You be seeing me soon for sure and I'm guessing it wil be safe to say Mike will not be out that day getting parts for the plow. :)
 
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dcsnomo

Moderator
BTW, the reason the salary reduction due to performance issues is weak, is because if you have an employee with unsolvable performance issues then termination is the correct answer.
If I have performance issues, and you cut my salary, the performance issues are still there, and will, in fact, get worse because you have screwed me.

I neglected to mention in my first post that you can also demote the employee with an appropriate salary cut. If you take him for Engineer level 2 to Engineer level 3 you can cut his salary. But if he continues to do the same work you are back to the Labor Dept case worker.

The net of all this is that if he is a performance problem then follow progressive discipline, terminate, and get the right person in the job.
 
R

racerx

Active member
dcsnomo said:
OK, this issue could get messy.

Go to HR and ask for all documentation concerning this employee. The you and your boss start at the beginning with specific behaviors that must be corrected, or the penalty will be a $20k cut. The go verbal, written, suspend, pay cut, AND DOCUMENT EVERY MOVE.

Good luck, remember that you can always contact a State Dept of Labor gnome by phone anonymously to ask for guidance.
Click to expand...

Thanx for taking the time to write this I saw it after my last post. Just a few background bits to explain. My boss has only been in the company for a little over 6 months and was the boss of my new reports previously, which in itself bothers me because I look at it as if he did not like it in the last 6 months why didn't he take care of immediately after he was the boss of both of us. How they are presenting it to me is he has the wrong classification as he is not doing the work of his current title but he has the skills to do it but this recent failure was result of many factors out of his control. He has not had any labor/performance issues and I consider him to be the Senior in the dept, thing is he is the only salaried employee and the only one in the building with that title.

I have thought about the idea of suggesting moving him to hourly since I believe they want to classify him like the other hourly employee, but I'm not sure how they respond because I would have thought they would have suggested it.

I even had to consult with my old boss who has been cut multiple times and asked him about it and he mentioned they are probably also worried that he makes more than me and that I would be asking for that money, which he knows I would not do.

Thanx again!!! I knew I could come here to at least get this out and receive some good help. Being in the middle all the time I have always been able internalize the grief and deal but I'm getting any younger and keeping it all inside is not fun. But I have received some relief here...Thanx!!!
 
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racerx

Active member
dcsnomo said:
How old is this employee?
Click to expand...

Odd thing I do not know for sure but I do know he has a few years on my 46, so I'm guessing early 50's. I'm almost embarassed Ido not know as I have worked with him for 20years, but I donot pay attention to those things
 
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dcsnomo

Moderator
BE VERY CAREFUL!
As employees age, their pay increase due to time on the job. This creates a situation where there are younger employees doing the same work as the older employee and making much less. So, the company says "let's cut the pay of older employees".

This is absolutely, 100% illegal. Employees over the age of 50 are a protected class, primarily becuase of this issue.

If you cut his pay, or grade, or anything else without a documented performance issue or a company policy that applies to all employees regardless of age you and the company will be sued for age discrimination (and BTW, you should be!) and you will lose in round 1.

This is an easy one...
1) He is over 50
2) You cut his pay
3) No documented performance issues
4) You did not cut the pay of the 30 something sitting next to me.

Therefore, Mr. Labor Dept Hearing Examiner, they cut my pay because I am over 50.

They will settle this one before lunch!

BE VERY CAREFUL!
 
R

racerx

Active member
Funny thing that happened in the HR office yeasterday, the manager gave me some labor grade sheets that "you look over during the weekend", and knowing how the game is played I asked, "are you giving me homework" and the response was "oh no I'm not doing that as we would have to pay you for it" and I gave her a nice look. I have had multple run-ins with HR over the years, one time was classic before she was the manager she was part of the rumor mill & buddy club and she spread crap about my shift, no biggie she was a nobody. Years later it came out when she was a manager and made a comment I did not like again and wrote to the president which was intercepted by my boss ( should have used email) and I told her straight up that I did not trust her one bit. Of course my boss pressed me to find out what the background was as it could not interfere with operations, and I flat out said "I not going to state what caused the trust issue in the first place but that does not stop me from going to HR when it is proper and per the policy and for any HR related stuff". Hard to explain that one in only a few words, but basically my relationship with HR is totally by the book but it is very well known we are on opposite sides, I'm surprised she hasn't manipulated the powers to get rid of me.

Signs of the times...We have a running joke as of late "Our manufacturing is getting in the way of our accounting business"...go figure I got into machining in order not to have my winters off instead of driving bulldozers, this was before I started snowmobiling, now I would love to have my winters off....
 
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anonomoose

New member
Bingo! This is exactly the way I see it. You axe away at the employee, with NO direction from upper management, the guy screams which he surely will do, and probably quits, sues the company, and you are the fall guy, "who should have known better"???.

This all fits.....as you say, you have never been a "corporate guy" and of course the management knows this....


Obviously if the company is unhappy paying this guy a salary, it should be encouraged to have you move him to hourly...and if he agrees then the problem is solved....but they don't push you in that direction do they?

WATCH OUT! This one stinks to high heavans.....

Anyone wonder why unions are necessary? Here you go....this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion.

Games are played, and heads will roll....but the fact that YOU know this isn't right, and that the issues that the company is hanging their hat on are not really, at least, all this guy's fault, point out to the fact that the bean counters are looking his higher pay scale over pretty hard and want to change that.

Here is what I would do.....

Go to the boss, and tell him that you need to see those performance ratings and write ups....tell him that cutting this guy by 20k will very likely cause the guy to quit unless they have, as DC says, a well documented trail showing that he is NOT performing to his level of pay, and that the personnel around him who works with him can support this premise. Otherwise the company will be sued, and "you wouldn't want me to get the company into hot water would you??????"

See what the boss says...and don't be afraid to call a meeting with HIS boss to be sure that the Company is well informed of this, then send a memo....(your own paper trail which could save YOUR job if need be) and then smile at the boss and look him straight in the eye and say nothing..... He will know that this little caper didn't work and that you are much smarter than they originally thought when they hired you to do this job with NO pay raise.
 
S

Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
How long have you been this guys boss now? A couple of days? With something as serious as cutting someone's pay by TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS:)eek:) my opinion is that YOUR boss should be dealing with this and the HR manager. Sounds to me like your boss does not want to deal with the confrontation that is sure to happen. also, it seems to me that they are setting you up to be the fall guy.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
Going from salary to hourly is no big deal just define the new job/title & requirements with him & get him to sign off on changes. A $20k reduction & the guy will probably look for another job anyway. Also no big deal to go hourly to salary sometimes more value going that way. Sounds to me like his current job/title is changing & just treat it that way. Sorry but your job has changed this is what we need now. 2nd best approach is cut the guy a severance package again say sorry your job/title has changed & we are going in a different direction no fault of yours bye bye. Of course he has to sign off no fault to the company to get the package. This happens everyday in the workplace & it SUCKS but the way it is these days.
 
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wags

New member
Well I did not read ALL of the responses to your original post but this is what I would do.

Put together your recommendation base on being his supervisor for only the short time you have and submit it to HR and leave it up to them to call him into the office. What's fair is fair and since you have only been his boss for a short time you can not bring anything you have heard and or observed prior into the picture.
That is how I would handle it.
 
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G

Guest
So - You are on the job for two days and your boss wants you to do this??? Sounds like a test to me. And if it blows up it's your butt too. Oh well, they only have two days of training into you. I would quit this mickey mouse company and find somewhere else to work.
 
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