Would this be allowed on the trail in Michigan

C

Cat600

New member
doubt it, there would be some corners and turns and trails it would be to wide for.

Not to mention it would run everyone over.
 
D

dcsnomo

Moderator
rsvectordude said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251160151677#h

Just had a discussion with a few friends about whether one could actually drive this on state trails not that I'm saying it would be a good idea but with a trail sticker would they allow it??
Click to expand...

No. There are regulations as to width. Plus, since it has no skis it is not a snowmobile, it is an ORV.

Legal Definition of a Snowmobile:
"Snowmobile" means any motor-driven vehicle designed for travel primarily on snow or ice of a type that utilizes sled-type runners or skis, an endless belt tread, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated,

It is awfully cool, though!
 
P

Polarice

New member
I saw a guy last year around the munising area driving an atv with the tracks on it on a snowmobile trail. Does this mean that I can tell the guy he's not allowed to drive it on the trail because it has no skis?

Looks to me by what you posted that one definition is; an endless belt tread. Not that it has to be a combination of both. So it looks like that would be allowed. I do not see anything about width restrictions. Where would I find that?
 
lofsfire

lofsfire

Active member
Polarice said:
I saw a guy last year around the munising area driving an atv with the tracks on it on a snowmobile trail. Does this mean that I can tell the guy he's not allowed to drive it on the trail because it has no skis?

Looks to me by what you posted that one definition is; an endless belt tread. Not that it has to be a combination of both. So it looks like that would be allowed. I do not see anything about width restrictions. Where would I find that?
Click to expand...

I remember seeing a post, I think on Sled MI, at the end of last year the guy wanted to get the track kit for the rear of his ATV and then a ski kit for the front. I don't think he ever got a real answer but lots of people saying it would not be allowed, for many different reasons.
 
mezz

mezz

Well-known member
From the Michigan Snowmobile Regulations. The legal definition of a "Snowmobile" means any motor-driven vehicle designed for travel primarily on snow or ice of a type that utilizes sled-type runners or skis, an endless belt tread, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated, but is not a vehicle that must be registered under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.

That particular set up would not be allowed on the trail due to the last portion of this regulation. Whether it has ski's or not is irrelevant as it uses an endless belt tread, as such, a 4wheeler with trax on them would be legal as long as it had a proper registration & trail permit.-Mezz
 
K

kwikgren

Member
DSC01293.jpg DSC01296.jpg

They use a similar setup, a GMC Jimmy conversion, to groom ski trails at Valley Spur, near Munising. The guys there rave about it, saying that it is comfortable, handles great, and costs way less at around $11,000 used vs. around $250,000 new for a Piston Bulley or Bombi. I think that without a grooming attachment, however, it would leave nasty cat tracks that would be most undesireable on a ski or snowmachine trail. It would be great if you had a long driveway you didn't want to plow.
 
D

dcsnomo

Moderator
mezz said:
From the Michigan Snowmobile Regulations. The legal definition of a "Snowmobile" means any motor-driven vehicle designed for travel primarily on snow or ice of a type that utilizes sled-type runners or skis, an endless belt tread, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated, but is not a vehicle that must be registered under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.

That particular set up would not be allowed on the trail due to the last portion of this regulation. Whether it has ski's or not is irrelevant as it uses an endless belt tread, as such, a 4wheeler with trax on them would be legal as long as it had a proper registration & trail permit.-Mezz
Click to expand...

Don't want to quibble over a pointless detail, really, I don't, but the statement "utilizes sled-type runners or skis, an endless belt tread, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated" means it must have both the belt and the skis. If there was an "or" after the word "skis" then a belt only would apply. However, there is no "or", so it must be "runners or skis, an endless belt tread or any combination of these. I can have one ski, two skis, three skis, and one, two, or how ever many belts, or any combination, but it must be a combination of belts and skis, and the belts and the skis must be in contact with the snow.

If I ask you to go to the kitchen and get me "a ham sandwich, a beer, or any combination of the two" you need to return with at least a sandwich and a beer.

You are correct about the registration part superceding the whole argument
 
mezz

mezz

Well-known member
Interesting topic, perhaps we need some legal advise on the definition of "or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated". I may be wrong, & it would not be the first time,:confused: but, I interpret that to mean that the combination of the runner or ski is not the only means of contact that is acceptable, as such, the vehicle could be steered with the endless tread. If anybody can clarify this, that would be most helpful.-Mezz
 
D

dcsnomo

Moderator
Polarice said:
I do not see anything about width restrictions. Where would I find that?
Click to expand...

WI width restrictions statute 350.09 (8m) No person may operate, offer for sale or sell a snowmobile that is manufactured after May 7, 1994, if the width of the snowmobile exceeds 48 inches.

I know that's not MI, but I bet they have a similar restriction
 
D

dcsnomo

Moderator
mezz said:
Interesting topic, perhaps we need some legal advise on the definition of "or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated". I may be wrong, & it would not be the first time,:confused: but, I interpret that to mean that the combination of the runner or ski is not the only means of contact that is acceptable, as such, the vehicle could be steered with the endless tread. If anybody can clarify this, that would be most helpful.-Mezz
Click to expand...

I concede! I glossed over the "other similar means" phrase. If I meet you at the Bear Belly Bar I owe you a beer! But wait...John owes me a beer, so have him buy you my beer!!!
 
R

rsvectordude

New member
That groomer has the first generation track system from the same company as the subaru. They actually don't track up the trails at all. The footprint is about the same as the biggest sleds on the market. I didn't see the part about being registered.
 
A

anonomoose

New member
rsvectordude said:
That groomer has the first generation track system from the same company as the subaru. They actually don't track up the trails at all. The footprint is about the same as the biggest sleds on the market. I didn't see the part about being registered.
Click to expand...

There in lays the problem! That vehicle FITS the description of a motor vehicle per the codes and regardless of the means of motivation....it isn't going to be allowed on the trails. So long as they stick to unplowed roads, I suspect nobody is going to care...but down the trails, someone will get their panties in a bunch...and then the boys with sleds will have a field day with the poor sob!
 
C

campertime

Member
Don't know if this is right or wrong but I was told that an tracked ATV/UTV could drive on any trail that was on a road, or one designated as a shared ATV/Snowmobile trail, but not on designated snowmobile trails. Has to have an ORV sticker. Can not purchase a trail permit cause it does not fit the dedfination of a snowmobile.
 
L

lesledhead

New member
"Designed for travel primarily on snow or ice" would seem to apply here as well. So, with that in mind, a car or an ATV would not fall in this category, as both were designed primarily for travel on dirt or roads. Plus, I think campertime is on to something, how do you get a trail permit for a car or ATV?

And the big question, who in their right mind would want to snowmobile on anything other than a snowmobile?! :)
 
H

Hoosier

Well-known member
Would that be considered a Polaris since both Polaris and Subaru have or had connections to Fuji for engines and other mechanicals?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top