Yamaha Cutting Production.

[snobuilder]

What's your opinion as the best solution to this??? He will keep this sled I am sure.

How many miles on it?. ....After tearing mine down for an exhaust donut leak at 8300 miles......I'd recommend this be done around 7500 or earlier even if it isn't getting loud.

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How is this program going to be effective if Cat isn't doing the same thing for their shared sleds? Does Yamaha offer anything you can't get in a different color at the Cat dealer?

X2......seems like a strange policy for Yamaha.

 

[old abe]

How many miles on it?. ....After tearing mine down for an exhaust donut leak at 8300 miles......I'd recommend this be done around 7500 or earlier even if it isn't getting loud.

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X2......seems like a strange policy for Yamaha.

Thanks once again snobuilder. That's probably really close to his mileage I'm guessing. Is this EXUP only used on the Apex 4 banger engine??? I don't know as any of the Yama/Cats use the 4 hole Apex engine??? And, the no order/sales limits on the AC/YamaCats does create sort of a strange problem????????????? Post # 20 pretty much has the writing on the wall.

 

[yamadooed]

It's part of the infamous death spiral policy Snobanter...

 

[Tracker]

Only if it is some sort of government mandate concerning exhaust regs....???

your problem is crap overseas steel with no certification....google suspect counterfeit bolts and items list....been going on for years now....there is gas valves...circuit breakers....stock 316 stainless tests not even stainless steel for gods sake...and you might be running the engine way harder than it needs to which can contribute to this....look at 8150 RPMs....that's max....but every one is tuned to 8900 for some odd reason and it don't make more power...actually less with more waste...just an FYI...definitely see the suspect counterfeit list...everyone wants cheaper....so this is what they get....cheaper seamless SS pipes...there were 2 companies in Illinois that made it...no problems...now there are NO FACTORIES in US....and the pipe factories overseas are not required to produce certs and regularly fake the reports and give us all bad steel...this is why trump is doing the tariff thing...and he is 100% correct....we have to abide by rules and regulations...yamahama don't

the blue is a 2011 APEX dyno

 

[MR.HAPPY]

I'm just guessing, but if anybody is leaving the sled business it will be Textron-Cat...
Look what Textron did with the name of their new products they purchased. They only wanted the off road toy products, so they change the name of those products that they plan on keeping & building their business & dealer network with & leave the Cat name on the snow toys that they don't care about & plan on selling off or dropping without hurting their company name! Yamaha learned a long time ago that building products in Japan & shipping from Japan put them in a bad situation for competitive pricing & making the profits they can & should! Look what they did with SxS & 4 wheeler production! Yamahas being built in Minnesota makes a lot of since & will allow them to test & make quicker to market changes while making them more profit! We'll See How It Plays Out...

 

[Tracker]

here is one list...this is tip of the ice berg...ARCTIC CAT listen up....DONT...USE anything but American made certified materials if you want your company to rise above the others cause they all use crap....its why the skirts fail...its why the engines blow....its why snowbob rebuilds after 7,000 measly miles...A sled should go 50,000 miles like a motorcycle can...don't cheap us out...otay...I feel better now...carry on men

https://safety4sea.com/uscg-urges-for-attention-to-suspect-and-counterfeit-items/

snowmobile ratchets
http://slideplayer.com/694060/2/images/10/Category+3+-+Fasteners+Example.jpg

counterfeit circuit breakers in you house
http://slideplayer.com/694060/2/images/9/Category+2-+Electrical+Example.jpg

faulty gas valves
http://slideplayer.com/694060/2/images/8/Counterfeit+Valve+–+WATTS+Ball+Valves.jpg

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I'm just guessing, but if anybody is leaving the sled business it will be Textron-Cat...
Look what Textron did with the name of their new products they purchased. They only wanted the off road toy products, so they change the name of those products that they plan on keeping & building their business & dealer network with & leave the Cat name on the snow toys that they don't care about & plan on selling off or dropping without hurting their company name! Yamaha learned a long time ago that building products in Japan & shipping from Japan put them in a bad situation for competitive pricing & making the profits they can & should! Look what they did with SxS & 4 wheeler production! Yamahas being built in Minnesota makes a lot of since & will allow them to test & make quicker to market changes while making them more profit! We'll See How It Plays Out...

MR HAPPY...I suggest you watch this whole thing and you shall receive a new light on the subject and have answers cause your wrong...my 2c

 

[agriffinjd]

i wouldnt be surprised if yamaha is done making their own sleds for good. I could see them continuing building engines for textron. It would be a very drastic move to stop production then years later come back in to a market that they left as the smallest player. I hope I'm wrong, we all lose if were down to three manufactures soon. If they come back with a two stroke they would have a chance.

I agree. I'm a cynic. If a corporation is cutting all kinds of production, and they try to sell it to the masses as being just this wonderful thing that will help people get value for their sleds, help dealers, blah blah blah, I don't buy it at all. They say they're cutting production because of a glut of prior-year sleds and having to offer huge rebates? Well, they wouldn't have a glut of unsold sleds if demand were staying the same or increasing. I think it'll be the big three soon once Yamaha stops making sleds of their own and just feeds motors to Cat. And I'm a former Yamaha owner that only sold his sled to spend more time with family. I was thinking of getting back into it by buying a two-up, preferably the Venture GT/TF. I just prefer true Yamaha sleds, not Cats with blue paint. Now I'll likely just buy a used one if I decide to go that route.

Judge Judy wrote a book called "Don't Pee on My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining." I think that saying fits here.

 

[snobuilder]

Thanks once again snobuilder. That's probably really close to his mileage I'm guessing. Is this EXUP only used on the Apex 4 banger engine??? I don't know as any of the Yama/Cats use the 4 hole Apex engine??? And, the no order/sales limits on the AC/YamaCats does create sort of a strange problem????????????? Post # 20 pretty much has the writing on the wall.

2011 Apex on has the EXUP.

 

[old abe]

2011 Apex on has the EXUP.

His would be early power steering Apex as I remember. Second year of PS??? This EXUP would be visible as on the exhaust header/manifold/collector???

 

[gary_in_neenah]

"Don't Pee on My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining."

Ya, I've been watching this thread for a few days now and that's pretty much my take on it. I hate to see us lose another mfr. but at best I think we'll see their engines in the Cats and that's about it. I used to work in manufacturing and logistics. The corporate trend for years now has been "direct to consumer", no warehousing and minimal shelf life. Produce it and ship to the consumer, the shortest supply chain ever. That works for some products, but snowmobiles?
If I follow Kip's information correctly, they're forcing the dealers and consumers to order a Yamaha in the springtime and they will only build that many with few leftovers. May be a good for the bottom line but when the other three mfrs. have theirs available throughout the year for consideration, well? I think their market share will decline further. I think it's too much to ask for most consumers, not all to lay out that kind of commitment and then wait 6 months for the delivery.

Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents. One of my earliest memories of snowmobile racing was seeing Mike Trapp and his 433 Yamaha win the World Championship against Duhamel's 800cc Blizzard so many years ago. Here's a picture of that actual Yamaha in the Snowmobile Hall of Fame.

Gary

 

[snobuilder]

His would be early power steering Apex as I remember. Second year of PS??? This EXUP would be visible as on the exhaust header/manifold/collector???

EXUP and PS were introed together in 2011.

 

[snobuilder]

Ya, I've been watching this thread for a few days now and that's pretty much my take on it. I hate to see us lose another mfr. but at best I think we'll see their engines in the Cats and that's about it. I used to work in manufacturing and logistics. The corporate trend for years now has been "direct to consumer", no warehousing and minimal shelf life. Produce it and ship to the consumer, the shortest supply chain ever. That works for some products, but snowmobiles?
If I follow Kip's information correctly,
they're forcing the dealers and consumers to order a Yamaha in the springtime and they will only build that many with few leftovers. May be a good for the bottom line but when the other three mfrs. have theirs available throughout the year for consideration, well? I think their market share will decline further. I think it's too much to ask for most consumers, not all to lay out that kind of commitment and then wait 6 months for the delivery.

Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents. One of my earliest memories of snowmobile racing was seeing Mike Trapp and his 433 Yamaha win the World Championship against Duhamel's 800cc Blizzard so many years ago. Here's a picture of that actual Yamaha in the Snowmobile Hall of Fame.

Gary

Does that sound like Textron is forcing them off the assembly line?....If the same policy doesn't apply to the Cat sleds then it sure sounds like it.

 

[journeyman]

I just reread the part where Kip said he can order 3 leftovers a day til they are gone.....270 sleds by June 6, 2018 for example....until we get a verified well depth...who knows....810 by Dec. 6, 2018???....LOL

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Thanks, Harvest 1121
Yamacats sound like a much easier sled to maintain than any of my genuine Yamaha 4 strokes......Now I find out the EXUP starts crumbling at around 12000 mile.....$2,000 repair part....

Best fix is to scrap the EXUP and put in an aftermarket exhaust similar to the old exhaust pre EXUP. No noticeable difference in performance. All it was good for was to reduce the low speed engine drone from exhaust valve overlap. As for the hyfax, dupont fixes that. Wheel bearings and wheels is no different than anything else on the Apex/Vectors.....let's not forget many of these machines have 2, 3, maybe more times the miles your average 2 stroke does. I have 16,000 miles on my 2007 Apex.

 

[journeyman]

Here is Snow Tech's take on it, says same thing......Yamaha not leaving market but restructuring. They point out that all 4 mfg's are producing around 175,000 units a year but only 95,000 to 100,000 are being actually sold. Something has to give. Yamaha isn't the only mfg with left over product either.

www.snowtechmagazine.com/2019-yamaha-return-srx/

BTW, I was the one who said Yamaha does have a new made in Japan sled. That is true and photos have been taken. Obviously 2019 is not the year to release anything new when they have a program like this taking place. Who knows, maybe they will never release it but it does exist.

I also know the inside story how Yamaha and Cat started working together. I knew parts of it but not all of it but here is kind of how it went in a nutshell:

Apparently when former Supertrax editor CJ Ramstead passed away there were AC top brass and also Yamaha top brass at the funeral. One of the Yamaha guys mentioned to one of the AC guys as kind of a half hearted joke......"one of our 4s motors would be great in your ProCross chassis". It likely planted a seed...... Anyways some time went by but then Suzuki had announced they could no longer develop new engines for Cat. They could still supply existing ones but nothing new. As we know Cat went to work and started their 2s engine plant in St. Cloud,Mn. but also made the agreement with Yamaha on the 4s engines and the rest is history.

I think Yamaha had other deciding factors too to hook up with Cat, the tsunami in Japan had hurt supply chains and the fluctuating Yen and their own reduced sales.

 

[old abe]

Here is Snow Tech's take on it, says same thing......Yamaha not leaving market but restructuring. They point out that all 4 mfg's are producing around 175,000 units a year but only 95,000 to 100,000 are being actually sold. Something has to give. Yamaha isn't the only mfg with left over product either.

www.snowtechmagazine.com/2019-yamaha-return-srx/

BTW, I was the one who said Yamaha does have a new made in Japan sled. That is true and photos have been taken. Obviously 2019 is not the year to release anything new when they have a program like this taking place. Who knows, maybe they will never release it but it does exist.

I also know the inside story how Yamaha and Cat started working together. I knew parts of it but not all of it but here is kind of how it went in a nutshell:

Apparently when former Supertrax editor CJ Ramstead passed away there were AC top brass and also Yamaha top brass at the funeral. One of the Yamaha guys mentioned to one of the AC guys as kind of a half hearted joke......"one of our 4s motors would be great in your ProCross chassis". It likely planted a seed...... Anyways some time went by but then Suzuki had announced they could no longer develop new engines for Cat. They could still supply existing ones but nothing new. As we know Cat went to work and started their 2s engine plant in St. Cloud,Mn. but also made the agreement with Yamaha on the 4s engines and the rest is history.

I think Yamaha had other deciding factors too to hook up with Cat, the tsunami in Japan had hurt supply chains and the fluctuating Yen and their own reduced sales.

AC 2 stroke engine project was started long before your time line. Years. Yamaha sled from Japan is no more than wishful thinking. I won't step into that trap again. The AC built sled with Yami engines is what the future is. For how long??? Textron is going to produce there own 4 stroke engines eventually, imo. The engine production capability was a big part of that purchase. If AC/Yamaha would produce, a all new sled, with the chassis/engine combination designed from the get go, they will really have well balanced/handling snowmobile. That's what many had waited for Yamaha themselves to produce for too many years.

 

[old abe]

EXUP and PS were introed together in 2011.

Going to search for pre 2011 used pipe. Perhaps find one that someone took off to replace with a header. He won't spend 2K to fix. Thanks for all your help snobuilder!!!

 

[byr 13]

i wouldnt be surprised if yamaha is done making their own sleds for good. I could see them continuing building engines for textron. It would be a very drastic move to stop production then years later come back in to a market that they left as the smallest player. I hope I'm wrong, we all lose if were down to three manufactures soon. If they come back with a two stroke they would have a chance.

agree

 

[byr 13]

I agree. I'm a cynic. If a corporation is cutting all kinds of production, and they try to sell it to the masses as being just this wonderful thing that will help people get value for their sleds, help dealers, blah blah blah, I don't buy it at all. They say they're cutting production because of a glut of prior-year sleds and having to offer huge rebates? Well, they wouldn't have a glut of unsold sleds if demand were staying the same or increasing. I think it'll be the big three soon once Yamaha stops making sleds of their own and just feeds motors to Cat. And I'm a former Yamaha owner that only sold his sled to spend more time with family. I was thinking of getting back into it by buying a two-up, preferably the Venture GT/TF. I just prefer true Yamaha sleds, not Cats with blue paint. Now I'll likely just buy a used one if I decide to go that route.

Judge Judy wrote a book called "Don't Pee on My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining." I think that saying fits here.

you hit the nail on the head !!!!!

 

[snobuilder]

Going to search for pre 2011 used pipe. Perhaps find one that someone took off to replace with a header. He won't spend 2K to fix. Thanks for all your help snobuilder!!!

Do some research....You might need everything from the header flex pipes on back....lots changed 2010 to 2011, exhaust wise.
Travis at Barnofparts.com is knowledgeable and sells used yam stuff by the bushel.

 

[old abe]

Do some research....You might need everything from the header flex pipes on back....lots changed 2010 to 2011, exhaust wise.
Travis at Barnofparts.com is knowledgeable and sells used yam stuff by the bushel.

Thanks, and really appreciate all your help snobuilder!!! What conditions did you find up where your at??? We're on the road for the last snowmobile trip this season. I think???????????????