Yamaha Sidewinder

[G]

Stock they are nothing special. Flashed you not only void the warranty but the rest of the sled will eat itself. Yes it will go fast. I have had lots of sleds that go fast. The weakest link will break. There are quite a few weak links on the Sidewinder. Clutch alignment issues. Belt issues. Chaincase issues. Front cross shaft issues. Brake side bearing issues. Roll over valve issues. Big horses come with reliability issues. Always have.

 

[WorkHardPlayHrd]

Stock they are nothing special. Flashed you not only void the warranty but the rest of the sled will eat itself. Yes it will go fast. I have had lots of sleds that go fast. The weakest link will break. There are quite a few weak links on the Sidewinder. Clutch alignment issues. Belt issues. Chaincase issues. Front cross shaft issues. Brake side bearing issues. Roll over valve issues. Big horses come with reliability issues. Always have.

Since the Sidewinder and the Thundercat are literally twins I am slightly confused. We have two of the T-cats and have had none of the issues you listed. Original belts, slides, everything at 3,200 miles. Only thing we've done is replace carbides and that was not the sleds fault, and recommended oil changes.

Both sleds are stock. One has been radared at 121 mph at 1,000 ft shaved ice, the other at 119 mph. Top speed clocked on the one at approximately 1,500 ft was 129. Have done nothing to them and they have never given us any hiccups. They are both 2017's and there is one serial number difference between the two.

So either we got lucky or I don't know what happened.



Both sleds on Lake Superior at Au Sable Point, went out to see the lighthouse.

 

[whitedust]

Nothing posted has changed my mind of SW seat time and posts here and other sites that the SW has most appeal to the go fast straight line buyers. Seems it always evolves to triple digit top end and reliability issues. Short read on TY does reenforce lots of chain, ski and belt problems with the SW so unlike the Apex and Vector. I don’t think the SW is a bad sled I just don’t have interest in having all that power and weight then reliability problems too. Hard for me to admit but so far best 4s reliability is now the doo Ace NA and turbo. Crying shame Yamaha now has reliability issues since the SW. Maybe it’s all that power?Idk?

 

[mrbb]

Nothing posted has changed my mind of SW seat time and posts here and other sites that the SW has most appeal to the go fast straight line buyers. Seems it always evolves to triple digit top end and reliability issues. Short read on TY does reenforce lots of chain, ski and belt problems with the SW so unlike the Apex and Vector. I don’t think the SW is a bad sled I just don’t have interest in having all that power and weight then reliability problems too. Hard for me to admit but so far best 4s reliability is now the doo Ace NA and turbo. Crying shame Yamaha now has reliability issues since the SW. Maybe it’s all that power?Idk?

not to argue here, but how can anyone say the DOO 900 turbo is the most reliable? as its only been out one yr, and from what I recall reading, it was weighting in just as heavy as the T cat/vipers/7000';s
not lighter?
they are all pretty darn close
only the viper/7000's have less hp, the SW/T cats have more HP
until the doo turbo has been about a few seasons, I think its hard to say there more/most reliable !

and lets face it and be honest here, ALL sleds are wear and tear, HOW you ride them and WHERE you ride them can be huge factor on how reliable they are, as is how well cared for they are during before and after the season!
there are folks of about all walks of life that ride and some get LONG life out of almost all brands/models, and then there are those that don't!

a lot is like pick of the litter IMO< as all sorts of bad parts can be put on anything, a LOT of workers don't give a crap about the job they do, or the quality of there own work, so a BAD"X" model can be any where,
just from that and be brand new too ! lots of posts about new sleds having issue's just as used one's, shame yes, but is what it is these days! QC cannot caught all things and honestly they only catch a SMALL percentage to be honest!
just buy what you like, and enjoy it, or sell it and try again!
season is way too short as is, and over thinking things, might not help at all with so many variables out of pone's control, and you DON"T know about them till snow is down and you can ride and find them>
maybe better off finding a GREAT dealer, that can fix you faster when needed , than trying to pick the BEST model LOL

 

[buddah2]

Stock they are nothing special. Flashed you not only void the warranty but the rest of the sled will eat itself. Yes it will go fast. I have had lots of sleds that go fast. The weakest link will break. There are quite a few weak links on the Sidewinder. Clutch alignment issues. Belt issues. Chaincase issues. Front cross shaft issues. Brake side bearing issues. Roll over valve issues. Big horses come with reliability issues. Always have.

As my best bud used to tell me about golf...."Hey, if you can't afford the d*** game, don't play"....

 

[snobuilder]

In grubs favor I can say that light is right.
But having a couple Yamaha 4 strokes as well as 2 Poo 800's gets me conflicted. i honestly enjoy both for different reasons. Anyone who has ridden both knows exactly what i mean.

mrbb makes a great point about 4 stroke weight. I LOL when some ditz thinks that only the Yamaha 4 strokes are heavy....

 

[whitedust]

not to argue here, but how can anyone say the DOO 900 turbo is the most reliable? as its only been out one yr, and from what I recall reading, it was weighting in just as heavy as the T cat/vipers/7000';s
not lighter?
they are all pretty darn close
only the viper/7000's have less hp, the SW/T cats have more HP
until the doo turbo has been about a few seasons, I think its hard to say there more/most reliable !

and lets face it and be honest here, ALL sleds are wear and tear, HOW you ride them and WHERE you ride them can be huge factor on how reliable they are, as is how well cared for they are during before and after the season!
there are folks of about all walks of life that ride and some get LONG life out of almost all brands/models, and then there are those that don't!

a lot is like pick of the litter IMO< as all sorts of bad parts can be put on anything, a LOT of workers don't give a crap about the job they do, or the quality of there own work, so a BAD"X" model can be any where,
just from that and be brand new too ! lots of posts about new sleds having issue's just as used one's, shame yes, but is what it is these days! QC cannot caught all things and honestly they only catch a SMALL percentage to be honest!
just buy what you like, and enjoy it, or sell it and try again!
season is way too short as is, and over thinking things, might not help at all with so many variables out of pone's control, and you DON"T know about them till snow is down and you can ride and find them>
maybe better off finding a GREAT dealer, that can fix you faster when needed , than trying to pick the BEST model LOL

If you want to doubt the 900t it’s fine with me but it has been a very reliable first year sled. The Ace turbo and Ace NA has been in use for many years this is the first year of Ace turbo use in a snowmobile but turbo Ace is not new. Again think what you want but better to do your homework regarding the Ace engines. When judging sleds and reliability I look at the total engine , clutch, ski, rear suspension, front and rear shock total sled integration. The SW has a vast list of integration problems as a working unit and Grub listed a few. Also weight wise ok with me if you want to throw all 4s sleds in they are all heavy category go head but very inaccurate way to think. As far as thinking a good dealer service organization will help you in a remote trail breakdown good luck with that. It’s much better to purchase the most reliable sled package maintain it and minimize abuse on the trail you’re on your own.

 

[pwolfy2003]

I have to weigh in on this , coming off a 2016 Viper I purchased a leftover 2018 SW and cant complain at all about the change. Absolutely love the SW . The Viper treated me well too though. Its fun to have the extra power but did I need it .... probably not.I laugh at all the hype about the weight but run plenty of twistys and have no trouble keeping up with the rest of my group with 2 strokes, besides getting older and run with younger guys, at times cant keep up, but not because of the SW its because I choose not to push myself ,older and wiser I guess, lol. Rode 5,025 miles this year with only a few very small issues.Never anything to shorten up a trip. Coming off 2 strokes for years dont think I will ever get away from the dependability of the 4s. Gas and go! Just still have no faith in the 2 stroke motors, cant tell you how many motors I heard going down again this year on the 2s, getting less but still not going away and thats why I still think the 4s are worth the extra heaviness,dependability is still the most important thing for me.

 

[old abe]

There is a noticeable weight difference from TCat/SW, as to the Doo 900T is 60# less.

 

[mrbb]

well if you all want to think a motor from one thing works the same in another, I will have to disagree, its been done many times and things have NOT always worked out as well as planned.
and I am NOT bashing the doo ace turbo at all , just saying
NEXT according to American snowmobiler REAL WORLD STATS< the SW weights in at 669 lbs, and the turbo ace at 639.5 lbs
so that is 30 lbs and NOT 60 lbs , again from what I have READ
there is also what a 40 + hp difference(pending who HP ratings you wish to go by?)
, so when you really want to get HP gains or>> its IMO a lot about HP to LB ratio's
and as such if you do the math, I gather the SW wins the battle, but this is NOT about HP and I know this, so don't think I am pushing things for either the SW/T cat or DOO's here
ALL I was saying when a model is out for the first yr there is NO honest way youc an call it the MOST reliable, as a sled is NOT just motor, or chassis
its how they all work together and LAST, and again, I STATED< HOW you care for them matters more maybe than brand or model
beat anyone and do little to no PM's and they will all find weak spots faster than if you care for them

the comment about breaking down in middle of NO where like, NO DUH< a dealer won
't help you get fixed there , but this scenario will be the same as they guy that tales perfect care of there sled a d a PART fails beyond there control, and DON"Y kid yourself, PARTS fail beyond everyone control some times,
so many like to say THAT'S WHAT A WARRANTY IS FOR??
but this too doesn't help you in middle of no where!

a GOOD relationship with a dealer however can be very helpful in getting you parts(maybe they can steal off a sled in showroom rather than make you wait> and likes)
sleds are wear and tear TOYS, I don't think anyone can call any model the most reliable, due to we all ride and take care of them differently,
I know of NO sled that can handle abuse all the time and last
add MORE HP to ANYTHING< and odds are they are NOT made to last super long time as in yrs and yrs and yrs, as MOST guys that play with HIGH hp toys don't be high mileage guys on average, and UP grade often, maybe keep some for yrs for sure, but they will tend to IMO be sleds for memory sake of sorts, weekend blasts, or lake playing,as they will have a NEW ride every few yrs, to keep up with better tech as it comes out
lots of old HP toys in folks garages that are decades old with LOW miles on them, wonder why??
HUGE HP is more tiring to control, as is more weight with them, this is also a FACT! and doubt anyone that has it will deny it!
but at same time, just cause you have lots of HP doesn't mean you have to use it all all the time either!
and weight on a sled on nice easy smooth straight trails is not really a big issue either IMO< its when things get bumpy the weight starts to get to you, and you have to control the weight in motion more! condition of rider will come into play here, just as much as weight of sled!

 

[whitedust]

well if you all want to think a motor from one thing works the same in another, I will have to disagree, its been done many times and things have NOT always worked out as well as planned.
and I am NOT bashing the doo ace turbo at all , just saying
NEXT according to American snowmobiler REAL WORLD STATS< the SW weights in at 669 lbs, and the turbo ace at 639.5 lbs
so that is 30 lbs and NOT 60 lbs , again from what I have READ
there is also what a 40 + hp difference(pending who HP ratings you wish to go by?)
, so when you really want to get HP gains or>> its IMO a lot about HP to LB ratio's
and as such if you do the math, I gather the SW wins the battle, but this is NOT about HP and I know this, so don't think I am pushing things for either the SW/T cat or DOO's here
ALL I was saying when a model is out for the first yr there is NO honest way youc an call it the MOST reliable, as a sled is NOT just motor, or chassis
its how they all work together and LAST, and again, I STATED< HOW you care for them matters more maybe than brand or model
beat anyone and do little to no PM's and they will all find weak spots faster than if you care for them

the comment about breaking down in middle of NO where like, NO DUH< a dealer won
't help you get fixed there , but this scenario will be the same as they guy that tales perfect care of there sled a d a PART fails beyond there control, and DON"Y kid yourself, PARTS fail beyond everyone control some times,
so many like to say THAT'S WHAT A WARRANTY IS FOR??
but this too doesn't help you in middle of no where!

a GOOD relationship with a dealer however can be very helpful in getting you parts(maybe they can steal off a sled in showroom rather than make you wait> and likes)
sleds are wear and tear TOYS, I don't think anyone can call any model the most reliable, due to we all ride and take care of them differently,
I know of NO sled that can handle abuse all the time and last
add MORE HP to ANYTHING< and odds are they are NOT made to last super long time as in yrs and yrs and yrs, as MOST guys that play with HIGH hp toys don't be high mileage guys on average, and UP grade often, maybe keep some for yrs for sure, but they will tend to IMO be sleds for memory sake of sorts, weekend blasts, or lake playing,as they will have a NEW ride every few yrs, to keep up with better tech as it comes out
lots of old HP toys in folks garages that are decades old with LOW miles on them, wonder why??
HUGE HP is more tiring to control, as is more weight with them, this is also a FACT! and doubt anyone that has it will deny it!
but at same time, just cause you have lots of HP doesn't mean you have to use it all all the time either!
and weight on a sled on nice easy smooth straight trails is not really a big issue either IMO< its when things get bumpy the weight starts to get to you, and you have to control the weight in motion more! condition of rider will come into play here, just as much as weight of sled!

So you think the SW and doo900t compete in the same market segment? I don’t know why you think that since the doo 900t is marketed to the 150 hp market segment and the SW is marketed to the 180 plus hp market. Yes they are both turbos and 4s but the market comparison ends there. I sure didn’t want or need 180 plus hp for trail riding so I wasn’t willing to pay the handling ,weight and price penalty for SW. As I said SW has different appeal not the same as the 900t. But again if that is the way you see the 900t and SW ok with me but inaccurate. Have you ridden both the 900t with different shock packages and the SW by the seat of your pants or are you just looking at magazine articles and making your judgements from the rags? I’m discussing both sleds and engines via the seat of my pants. Also I don’t know how a magazine decides their weight comparos I purchased to manufacturers weight spec and as Old Abe said there is 55 to 60 pound different in favor of the doo. Yamaha has never publicized the weight of the SW as far as I know but it sure felt heavy to me in comparison to the 900t How did the SW and Doo 900t feel to you tell me that not what a magazine says. Any magazine that is comparing the 900t to the SW imo is just a curious event not the same hp class of sleds just as the Viper and SW address different markets.

 

[buddah2]

O.K., my very last comment on this subject, I promise....sort of

And this is what I know from personal experience...I have a close bud who got a new 900t Enduro...he rides a LOT so by the time we rode together his was well broken in...he's a professional auto/sled mechanic so his clutching etc. is spot on the money too (aftermarket weights but I don't know whose since I'm not a doo guy)...now this guy was a dyed-in-the-wool Poo guy for as long as I knew him until he had a 900 Fusion. That vibratory SOB cured him of his Poo infatuation. He's been on Doo's ever since.

As I mentioned my SW is not stock...ECU reflashed to 260 hp and clutching completely dialed in by my bud who now owns Thunder Products Clutching...here's the sled comparison as I know it: Doo = 137x1.6 with mini-studs(Ice Cobra track); extremely low windshield; all else stock other than clutching...SW = 153x1.75 Backcountry unstudded; mid-height sport windshield...rider weights = he's over 100 lbs lighter than me so total diff = 160-ish lbs depending upon whose numbers you use...but I've got at least 100 extra hp.

So we go for a ride along with his BIL on an 800 Poo....900t leading, Poo 2nd, me in rear....we hit a long straight stretch and bud waves me up...now this was a re-routed trail so I think he wants me to lead...as soon as I start to pull away, he pins his....OH! NOW I get the picture...so I wave him down and start a 3,2,1 countdown but on 3, he's gone again...I figure WTH so I pin it....I'm on his left and my right ski tries to climb into his left footwell so I have to let completely off ("peddle it" in drag racing parlance)...hammer back on it and as he told me later "You went by me so fast I thought my sled died".

Unfortunately I had a fall on some ice and missed the last 5 weeks of the season so we never got to try again when we BOTH knew we were racing...I seriously suspect based upon some comments at coffee that his will be reflashed up to around 200 hp by next season...FWIW

I'm done....

 

[G]

Since the Sidewinder and the Thundercat are literally twins I am slightly confused. We have two of the T-cats and have had none of the issues you listed. Original belts, slides, everything at 3,200 miles. Only thing we've done is replace carbides and that was not the sleds fault, and recommended oil changes.

Both sleds are stock. One has been radared at 121 mph at 1,000 ft shaved ice, the other at 119 mph. Top speed clocked on the one at approximately 1,500 ft was 129. Have done nothing to them and they have never given us any hiccups. They are both 2017's and there is one serial number difference between the two.

So either we got lucky or I don't know what happened.

View attachment 60423

Both sleds on Lake Superior at Au Sable Point, went out to see the lighthouse.

They are mostly the same sled. But AC uses Team clutches and Yami uses their own. After 3 seasons it appears that the AC system is working better. Also AC uses their skis which work and Yami insists on using their abortion Tuners which are junk. The plastics on the hood are formed a little differently also. After that they are twins.

 

[mrbb]

So you think the SW and doo900t compete in the same market segment? I don’t know why you think that since the doo 900t is marketed to the 150 hp market segment and the SW is marketed to the 180 plus hp market. Yes they are both turbos and 4s but the market comparison ends there. I sure didn’t want or need 180 plus hp for trail riding so I wasn’t willing to pay the handling ,weight and price penalty for SW. As I said SW has different appeal not the same as the 900t. But again if that is the way you see the 900t and SW ok with me but inaccurate. Have you ridden both the 900t with different shock packages and the SW by the seat of your pants or are you just looking at magazine articles and making your judgements from the rags? I’m discussing both sleds and engines via the seat of my pants. Also I don’t know how a magazine decides their weight comparos I purchased to manufacturers weight spec and as Old Abe said there is 55 to 60 pound different in favor of the doo. Yamaha has never publicized the weight of the SW as far as I know but it sure felt heavy to me in comparison to the 900t How did the SW and Doo 900t feel to you tell me that not what a magazine says. Any magazine that is comparing the 900t to the SW imo is just a curious event not the same hp class of sleds just as the Viper and SW address different markets.

I love how folks like you read into things what ever you want/ and then try to bash a guy for saying something/
I NEVER ever said the Tcat/SW and the 900T were in the same HP league, even stated they were NOT
what I did say is again there ALL 4 strokes, and that PERIOD!
this started with someone SAYING the 900-900T are the MOST reliable sleds out there
never said anything about best handling or blah blah blah blah!
and I SAID< that there is NO way anyone can claim a first yr sled as being the most reliable!
just cause a MOTOR works great and been around in different things, means CRAP as to how it will hold up in sled, , how a chassis will like it, and so on!
give it a few yrs and Then well see how long term reliable they are or not, till then, its an impossible claim,by FACT time hasn't gone by to PROVE it!

and some of you folks sure get your panties in a bunch real fast over little things LOL

as for the weights I listed, well they were from the American Snowmobiler real world tests on real weights of full of fluids and after being broke in and weighted all at same time
was I there NO< do I have any reason to doubt them, NO< I could care less what one weights more or less to be honest!
but I AM not going to call the magazine that posted the weights a lair, you can feel free to do so, have a look at there spring issue, it shows weights on a SW and a 900T, along with other sleds

you seem to think it matters if I rode either of these sleds with different shock packages
what does this have to do with any sled being the most reliable again?
NOTHING< its a off point of my post! and just a rant to try and make someone feel lesser then you think YOU ARE! online bully crap! sorry , it doesn;t work on me, I care less about this crap than you can imagine, words on a screen never impress me or intimidate me!

and again, you keep bringing up HP as a comparison that you think I am making, by saying there NOT in the same league, which I never said they werre
I even pointed out they were not in same ho league?
so, maybe read and comprehend skills are not your best!
you just want to again try and make a guy feel your so smart or??
feel free to add more blah blah blah about your superiority, I'm, sure you will!

 

[whitedust]

I love how folks like you read into things what ever you want/ and then try to bash a guy for saying something/
I NEVER ever said the Tcat/SW and the 900T were in the same HP league, even stated they were NOT
what I did say is again there ALL 4 strokes, and that PERIOD!
this started with someone SAYING the 900-900T are the MOST reliable sleds out there
never said anything about best handling or blah blah blah blah!
and I SAID< that there is NO way anyone can claim a first yr sled as being the most reliable!
just cause a MOTOR works great and been around in different things, means CRAP as to how it will hold up in sled, , how a chassis will like it, and so on!
give it a few yrs and Then well see how long term reliable they are or not, till then, its an impossible claim,by FACT time hasn't gone by to PROVE it!

and some of you folks sure get your panties in a bunch real fast over little things LOL

as for the weights I listed, well they were from the American Snowmobiler real world tests on real weights of full of fluids and after being broke in and weighted all at same time
was I there NO< do I have any reason to doubt them, NO< I could care less what one weights more or less to be honest!
but I AM not going to call the magazine that posted the weights a lair, you can feel free to do so, have a look at there spring issue, it shows weights on a SW and a 900T, along with other sleds

you seem to think it matters if I rode either of these sleds with different shock packages
what does this have to do with any sled being the most reliable again?
NOTHING< its a off point of my post! and just a rant to try and make someone feel lesser then you think YOU ARE! online bully crap! sorry , it doesn;t work on me, I care less about this crap than you can imagine, words on a screen never impress me or intimidate me!

and again, you keep bringing up HP as a comparison that you think I am making, by saying there NOT in the same league, which I never said they werre
I even pointed out they were not in same ho league?
so, maybe read and comprehend skills are not your best!
you just want to again try and make a guy feel your so smart or??
feel free to add more blah blah blah about your superiority, I'm, sure you will!

Your definitely not being bullied or intimidated your statements are being discussed and debated. This entire thread started regarding and evolved to riding position and more hp. I’m sure the OP wanted seat of the pants opinions on different riding positions and Hp Viper to SW. The membership gave it their best shot and other sleds came into the discussion including 2s and 900t just the route of the discussions as other possible engine /sled recommendations. You joined in disagreeing with published sled weights and a magazines shootout in of dissimilar hp sleds and you disagreed with the high reliability of of the Ace 900t. All ok imo but I still think the OP was looking for seat of the pants comparos not magazine shoot outs. I’m sorry if you felt threatened as I can assure you were only entering a debate and you directed your comments to me so I responded and countered your points. If you didn’t want to do that with me you should have just made a general post not quoted me which is asking me to respond directly to your response. Peace be with you JD site is well managed site and why I hang here but be ready for debates if you challenge someone they may respond with a fact based counter simple as that.

 

[mrbb]

Your definitely not being bullied or intimidated your statements are being discussed and debated. This entire thread started regarding and evolved to riding position and more hp. I’m sure the OP wanted seat of the pants opinions on different riding positions and Hp Viper to SW. The membership gave it their best shot and other sleds came into the discussion including 2s and 900t just the route of the discussions as other possible engine /sled recommendations. You joined in disagreeing with published sled weights and a magazines shootout in of dissimilar hp sleds and you disagreed with the high reliability of of the Ace 900t. All ok imo but I still think the OP was looking for seat of the pants comparos not magazine shoot outs. I’m sorry if you felt threatened as I can assure you were only entering a debate and you directed your comments to me so I responded and countered your points. If you didn’t want to do that with me you should have just made a general post not quoted me which is asking me to respond directly to your response. Peace be with you JD site is well managed site and why I hang here but be ready for debates if you challenge someone they may respond with a fact based counter simple as that.

again, your not reading very well
I never said the 900t motor was NOT reliable
I never stated anything about this being a HP shootout!
I never said anything about the OP wanting a shootout report or review here!
I quoted you as you again, are reading into things I am NOT typing in my posts!
its not about a debate, or?? its the fact folks like you wish to say something about what a person(you quoted me) that they never said, and then run off like you know more than they do!
I never said any sled was better or worse, I pointed out its impossible to call a first yr sled the most reliable
I then POSTED REAL weight numbers that are posted in a magazine
the rest of you never gave any weights, just said, it was 60+ lbs heavier. and that isn't showing on information I read that IS posted by a reliable source!
YET you wish to debate this with me, when maybe you should be debating there numbers if you doubt them with the magazine not me??
I have thick skin and don't get offended easy, nor am I now
I am again replying to YOU cause your quoting me with things I am NOT TYPING< based on you THINKING you can read my mind apparently or??
if you wish to debate , I am fine,
if you wish to go off topic, I am fine there too
but don't try and say I am stating something I have not typed or said here!
SO???

 

[whitedust]

again, your not reading very well
I never said the 900t motor was NOT reliable
I never stated anything about this being a HP shootout!
I never said anything about the OP wanting a shootout report or review here!
I quoted you as you again, are reading into things I am NOT typing in my posts!
its not about a debate, or?? its the fact folks like you wish to say something about what a person(you quoted me) that they never said, and then run off like you know more than they do!
I never said any sled was better or worse, I pointed out its impossible to call a first yr sled the most reliable
I then POSTED REAL weight numbers that are posted in a magazine
the rest of you never gave any weights, just said, it was 60+ lbs heavier. and that isn't showing on information I read that IS posted by a reliable source!
YET you wish to debate this with me, when maybe you should be debating there numbers if you doubt them with the magazine not me??
I have thick skin and don't get offended easy, nor am I now
I am again replying to YOU cause your quoting me with things I am NOT TYPING< based on you THINKING you can read my mind apparently or??
if you wish to debate , I am fine,
if you wish to go off topic, I am fine there too
but don't try and say I am stating something I have not typed or said here!
SO???[/QUOTE
Ok whatever I choose to end this back and forth nothing is being accomplished imo just rehash of prior points already posted by both of us. Ride on!

 

[mrbb]

[/QUOTE Ok whatever I choose to end this back and forth nothing is being accomplished imo just rehash of prior points already posted by both of us. Ride on![/QUOTE]

Well we both agree this is a great site so all is good here LOl

 

[old abe]

So you think the SW and doo900t compete in the same market segment? I don’t know why you think that since the doo 900t is marketed to the 150 hp market segment and the SW is marketed to the 180 plus hp market. Yes they are both turbos and 4s but the market comparison ends there. I sure didn’t want or need 180 plus hp for trail riding so I wasn’t willing to pay the handling ,weight and price penalty for SW. As I said SW has different appeal not the same as the 900t. But again if that is the way you see the 900t and SW ok with me but inaccurate. Have you ridden both the 900t with different shock packages and the SW by the seat of your pants or are you just looking at magazine articles and making your judgements from the rags? I’m discussing both sleds and engines via the seat of my pants. Also I don’t know how a magazine decides their weight comparos I purchased to manufacturers weight spec and as Old Abe said there is 55 to 60 pound different in favor of the doo. Yamaha has never publicized the weight of the SW as far as I know but it sure felt heavy to me in comparison to the 900t How did the SW and Doo 900t feel to you tell me that not what a magazine says. Any magazine that is comparing the 900t to the SW imo is just a curious event not the same hp class of sleds just as the Viper and SW address different markets.

It is not only the weight difference, but the cg position is what makes the Doo a much more friendly, and better handling ride.

 

[G]

The ProCross chassis was never designed for the Sidewinder motor or for the Zuk 4 stroke that preceded it. It was made for lighter weight 2 smokers. If you look at a 'Winder there is a lot of room between the bottom of the engine and the bellypan. So the heavy weight that is the engine is 6 inches higher than anything 'Doo makes. Pol has their engines right down low also. It makes the weight problem even worse when it sits up as high as it does. Handling could be improved exponentially if there was a purpose built sled made just for the Sidewinder motor. They could also address some of the other problems at the same time. However I am not optimistic this will ever happen. Snobuilder is on the right track. There are advantages with 4 strokes and there is still a place for the lighter 2 smokers. To do it right a person should have at least one of each. So the sport just got a little more expensive. Again.