I also like the idea of a limited-time permit (3 day, 5 day, one week, whatever). As others have stated, it's available for fishing licenses. If you sled in Ontario, it's also available there (albeit much more costly; the week permit when I was there 9 years ago was far more than our yearly permit, even with our recent increases).
$10 Fee increase for Michigan Trail Pass next year
- Thread starter 440_chazz
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1flatlander2
Member
we wanted to go to canada once a while ago. at the time the permit was over $100 so $200 for my wife and i. we ended not going because of the price of the permit. we will get michigan permits this year but if it gets crazy high we might not go to michigan.
polarisrider1
New member
John is the only one in 242 posts that made any sense. Thank you John. Sorry we are going to miss you guys who think the $45 is to high . Please read post 234 everyone. I am involved with MSA as a Life member and follow very closely what they stand for and do. We are on your side. Fact is you will never make everyone happy all the time but a fact is the cost of smooth trails keeps going up like everything else but my wages. Join your local club and MSA if you want your voice heard. Also support the businesses that support your sport. Ask the places you buy gas from and stay at and eat at if they are MSA members, if not I go down the road. Support those businesses who support our passion and they will benefit from it also. I have talked to some of the establishments and find that those who cry about the permit prices also cry about the room rates and that a 1/2# burger and a pile of fries for $6 is to much and so on. Back to the $45 permit fee, remember without it we pretty much would not have any trail system let alone grooming. You can ride around your house for no permit or you can pony up and ride with the big boys.
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The 3 day permit would be more realistic for the casual rider & multiple sleds........maybe $10 each? I thought MI rejected that because there was no way to enforce use of a short term permit. If rider permit numbers drop off this year MI will be forced to reevaluate. Family of 4 sleds $180 for a long weekend probably won't happen a lot of lean green for a family for such little use.
There are other MSA members here as well (life member myself). I'm pretty sure most of, if not all of my posts in this thread have been in support of MSA and the trail permit fee. I guess if supporting a limited-time permit to try and help keep the dollars flowing into Michigan is senseless, then so be it.
I don't know if it was presented or not, or why it may have been rejected if it was presented. But if it was because of enforcement ability, well, seems like a lame excuse. Ontario manages to do it somehow, why couldn't we?
chevytaHOE5674
New member
You guys keep talking about how wonderful the groomed trails are and I'm sure they are.... I could ride an entire season with the "big boys" and never touch a trail, I fact until last season I hadn't been on a groomed trail in many years.
If I was a guy who loved to go out and pound the groomed trails I wouldn't mind paying for the permit because I know grooming, signing, etc is expensive. But I don't. I ride down to the end of my road and out into the maze of logging roads that go from here all the way to Houghton, Crystal Falls, Watersmeet, and Ironwood. No sign's, no grooming, no maintaining, no nothing is performed to those trails, so why should I have to pay $45 for nothing???
Don't buy the trail permit if you don't want to. I would rather pay the $45 permit than the $150 ticket myself. I don't like the fee increases either but everything is more expensive than what it was 10 years ago. It is the cost of doing busuiness as they say.
First off, I find that you never touch a trail a little hard to believe. I ride off trail as much as anyone, but do use the trails. Why? Because there is no gas or places to get out of the cold and grab a bite to eat in the backcountry. At times I find myself a long way's from home and it is getting dark and anyone knows you do not belong in the backcountry at night, so I take the trails home. Sometimes it is just because I want to ride the trails. I have never known ANYONE that NEVER rides the trails, so you would be the first.
Also, I do not live on Ontonagon, but do have some of the state taxes I pay go towards fixing your roads, paying for your police and fire protection, etc... Why should I have to do that?
-John
raceinsnow
New member
Thank you John for explaining this to me (us).
I do suport the groomers and clubs and I can see that the trial permit money is making a differance.This is a very expencive sport and I see alot of sleds not hitting the snow this year because of the increased costs,not just permit fees but that dosnt help.I would like to see a small hand out where I buy my trail permits explaining how many perimts were sold the year before and what the money was used for.
I do suport the groomers and clubs and I can see that the trial permit money is making a differance.This is a very expencive sport and I see alot of sleds not hitting the snow this year because of the increased costs,not just permit fees but that dosnt help.I would like to see a small hand out where I buy my trail permits explaining how many perimts were sold the year before and what the money was used for.
The text is cut and pasted from MSA website (letter from President). The chart below is outdated and doesn't show where the new funds are going, but it might be helpful also.
As most of you know, the cost of a snowmobile trail permit will be $45 for the 2011-2012 season. The pric
e will stay at $45 for the next five years. The trail permit money is used to buy trail grooming equipment, to repair and maintain that equipment, to buy fuel, to brush and maintain the trails, to buy trail signs, to sign the trails, to pay for trail easements across private property, to design and build bridges across streams, and to pay for program administration. To date over fifty one snowmobile clubs have indicated a need for 66 new groomers and 48 new drags. (There are approximately 170 groomers used for snowmobile trail grooming in Michigan.) The need far exceeds the money available. In recent years 10-12 groomers were purchased each year. At that rate, it will take 15+ years to replace all the groomers. Bridges are very costly and take a lot of time to design and build. In years of low grooming any extra money left in the program is used to pay for additional bridges and to buy additional equipment. This past season there were 372,906.7 miles of trails groomed at a cost of $1, 704,183. That works out to $4.57 a mile just for grooming. That amount does not include the cost of bridges, trail maintenance, easements, new equipment purchased, etc. View attachment 27551
As most of you know, the cost of a snowmobile trail permit will be $45 for the 2011-2012 season. The pric
e will stay at $45 for the next five years. The trail permit money is used to buy trail grooming equipment, to repair and maintain that equipment, to buy fuel, to brush and maintain the trails, to buy trail signs, to sign the trails, to pay for trail easements across private property, to design and build bridges across streams, and to pay for program administration. To date over fifty one snowmobile clubs have indicated a need for 66 new groomers and 48 new drags. (There are approximately 170 groomers used for snowmobile trail grooming in Michigan.) The need far exceeds the money available. In recent years 10-12 groomers were purchased each year. At that rate, it will take 15+ years to replace all the groomers. Bridges are very costly and take a lot of time to design and build. In years of low grooming any extra money left in the program is used to pay for additional bridges and to buy additional equipment. This past season there were 372,906.7 miles of trails groomed at a cost of $1, 704,183. That works out to $4.57 a mile just for grooming. That amount does not include the cost of bridges, trail maintenance, easements, new equipment purchased, etc. View attachment 27551
HardwaterHoosier
Member
Not all MI trails have upper and northern the qualities or environment. Look at the SW lower. Honestly, I'll stop at the state line. $45 to ride 30 miles into MI isn't worth it.
But if I'm able to plan a trip to the Northern or upper, yes. $45 is hidden into a $500 weekend easily.
But if I'm able to plan a trip to the Northern or upper, yes. $45 is hidden into a $500 weekend easily.
chevytaHOE5674
New member
Come on down and lets ride. I fill the sleds up with gas from cans before I leave the house, have fuel with me at all times on the sleds, and 99.99% of the time ride the ditches to get fuel when needed. Gas in Bergland, Bruce crossing, Twin lakes, White Pine, Baraga, etc all without touching the trails. I pack a lunch and eat whenever I get hungry someplace in the woods.
If you think that it can't be done in this area then study some maps, aerial photo, plat books, and then give it a try.
skiroule
Well-known member
I just look at the "Favorite Trail Pics" thread for justification. While I'm not primarily a trail rider, my experience over the last few years has been that these trail shots represent the rule, rather than the exception. As many have stated, this has not always been the case. Grooming has improved and to a large degreee, the riding public has come to expect smoother trails. This has to come at a higher cost.
I think you can stay out all day with jerky & water no problem but why bust butt transporting gas home then hand pour in sleds. $45 is worth every penny to avoid ditch banging or hauling gas home for storeage & hand pouring.
A small back up supply sure but everyday use no way.You have a complete $45 ROI on trail permit just for gassing on trail. Run your numbers for hauling gas & you will see ROI.
It's not that I don't think it CAN be done, I just have a hard time believing that EVERY ride you take NEVER touches a groomed trail. I take a few every year that are like that, but the truth is, most of my off trail rides contain a bit of trail riding as do those of every backcountry rider I know- local or not.
I do understand your point, but you also have to understand that you choose to ride the way you do. No one is forcing you to stay off the trails. If it were not for the trail system, there would be little to no snowmobiling up here at all and thus no places locally for you to go and get parts or a sled fixed. So in that way, you still need the system.
I did not enjoy paying $90 for the two stickers I got, especially since one sled will hardly even touch the snow, let alone a groomed trail, but I guess being part of a grant sponsor that maintains the trails, I see how much good the extra income will be for the program and that it is not wasted. In fact, I wish all of the government run programs could run like the snowmobile program!
Sometime I would love to get out with you and ride. I love to see new sights and have no experience in the backcountry in your neck of the woods! So you may just get an e mail some time this season!
-John
chevytaHOE5674
New member
but why bust butt transporting gas home then hand pour in sleds. $45 is worth every penny to avoid ditch banging or hauling gas home for storeage & hand pouring.
Well I have farm equipment that runs on unleaded fuel so I have to bring fuel home in a pickup style tank with a 12v pump for that anyways so whats a few gallons in the sleds. Sometimes I just toss a couple cans in the truck if all I need is for the sleds though.
And John I know I choose to ride the way I do. That's why I think I should have a choice to ride without a trail sticker and have it be legal.
Not too worried about it this season as I just tore down my sled for some work so I won't be riding it for a while. If snow comes I will have to borrow the other halfs sled.
Edit: Another thing I use a snowmobile to get to and from work as well. I'm a forester so often times I use a sled to get into a piece of land to cruise it or mark it. I legally need a sticker to unload on the side of the road and ride an unplowed seasonal road to the timber, no groomed trails there. Also have worked with many land owners that only use their sleds to get to and from their camps that are down the same seasonal roads and trails, and they need a $45 trail permit just to ride 1 mile into their camps......
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I guess you have already done the homework, but I was going to ask if you were sure you needed a trail sticker to ride on private property that is not a designated snowmobile trail. I know you need to be registered, but always wondered about the trail sticker. I do not know of any DNR officers that ride in the backcountry looking for sleds without stickers. I do know they will ride the backcountry looking for trespassers if a land owner complains.
Being a forester, I would love to ride with you sometime. The places you know!
-John
Being a forester, I would love to ride with you sometime. The places you know!
-John
For me 18 mile RT to haul gas home or fill up on trail on way back home so no ROI for me to haul gas. I try to get the most from a ride so always need fill up on trail on the way back home. I'll keep 20 gallons on reserve but just a reserve. Daughter hit me up for 6 gallons for her car so gave it to her figured I needed to refresh anyway.lol
chevytaHOE5674
New member
I have 3 tractors, skid steer, bulldozer, snowplow truck, ATV's, pump, generator, etc that all run on unleaded. So whats a couple more gallons of fuel for the snowmobiles. hahaha
I don't worry about sticker fees folks...think about this....my friends were not happy about buying the michigan sticker last year...so we took our annual trip to another area in wisconsin rather than go to our usual UP spot..we stayed 3 nights...the trails were good...but...our rooms were 90 dollars a night....where as in michigan they would have been under 50!!! If we had gone to michigan, and bought stickers it would have been a savings of nearly 90 dollars!!!! I made sure the boys heard about it at the bar our last night of the trip...once I showed them the math they felt stupid...this year it's back to michigan...so what if you ride there once a year, if you get your rooms cheap enough, you can SAVE money....it's far cheaper in some areas of michigan, than it is in northern wisconsin.