UP Signage Revisited

[Polarice]

solar powered signs?? yup more stupider in WI. (is that even a word?)

It is a word (adjective) but you had to ask.

Your logic and everyone else that defends the lack of signage in MI won't last. It really is stupider than WI by a long shot. Of course there is the logic of reducing clutter

 

[polarisrider1]

The UP is fast losing its Up North charm in many areas (the remoteness). If trail 8 becomes a super highway then be it, but save some of the trails for those who wish to enjoy nature and the "real" snowmobile experience. Last thing we want is the dollar going to our good friends to the North. as the UP is starting to look like ohio. Anyone been to Marquette lately? could pass for any big town USA. The Soo is in it's tracks. If Houghton gets much bigger and it is, then what?
I vote no to over signage, extra wide trails, guard rails and toll booths! (lol on toll booths). And one thing nobody mentions is the Bars need to be responsible of their patrons. Way to many bar hopper riders leave drunk and have to have the signs to feel their way out of town only to kill some family out on the trail. I personally have been hit by a drunk just North of Newberry and survived. Sled not so much.

 

[polarisrider1]

It is a word (adjective) but you had to ask.

Your logic and everyone else that defends the lack of signage in MI won't last. It really is stupider than WI by a long shot. Of course there is the logic of reducing clutter

The goal is to slow people down and make them less relient of signage. In my Ricky Racer days I truly loved the signage as to let me know on setting up for a curve as to do maximum speed thru it. Then I decided I wanted to live after about 30 years of that and many near misses and scareing the begeezes out of many coming at me. I guess with age comes maturity or the will to live. Maybe a combination. You never really told us why you are so pro signage.

 

[Polarice]

The goal is to slow people down and make them less relient of signage. In my Ricky Racer days I truly loved the signage as to let me know on setting up for a curve as to do maximum speed thru it. Then I decided I wanted to live after about 30 years of that and many near misses and scareing the begeezes out of many coming at me. I guess with age comes maturity or the will to live. Maybe a combination. You never really told us why you are so pro signage.

I'm pro signage because I think it's a totally unnecessary risk that can cause injury or death.

As stated publicly by the DNR the reason they've removed signs was to remove clutter. Anything else anyone says is here say. Not fact but here say.

 

[polarisrider1]

I'm pro signage because I think it's a totally unnecessary risk that can cause injury or death.

As stated publicly by the DNR the reason they've removed signs was to remove clutter. Anything else anyone says is here say. Not fact but here say.

Not true. I just pulled this off from the MSA site as quoted by the MSA President. "It is felt by many that part of the problem of excessive speed on our trails is the amount of signs that are on the trail. Some believe that people are riding from sign to sign. These same sign changes have been made in other states and parts of Canada." check it out at msasnow.org

 

[lenny]

It is a word (adjective) but you had to ask.

Your logic and everyone else that defends the lack of signage in MI won't last. It really is stupider than WI by a long shot. Of course there is the logic of reducing clutter

can you at least explain why, not trying to aggravate you, just curious, you never get very specific, just saying it's stupid.

 

[whitedust]

Pete, I cannot let you get away withthat one,,,lol. You cant make a statement without any facts. Has there been an occurrence that you speak of,,, perhaps, perhaps not. Even better, has it occurred because of poor signage or poor operation? Again, I'm not pressing the issue to try an be right but rather looking at this by actual information that riders have posted. The positive posts people are making of their riding experiences seems to be avoided like the plague from those who just don't like it. I give Russholie thumbs up for admitting he posted gloom and doom, I forgot he ever posted it in the first place. Back on topic, the highlighted statement implies fact when we have no record of that. I give you that there are riders all over Mi who do not post on here so we only see a tiny percentage of feedback but at least it is something to stand on and odds are it will be the standard of the trend we will see. You also just said we don't know the rider like or dislike of the new policy and that's just plain false, in fact that's all we have right now to go by. Go back and count the posts that didn't have issue with sign removal. I am sure their opinion would certainly favor new policy over dislike of new policy, especially if they stated they didn't notice much difference at all,,, agreed?

Personally I think this issue should be looked at not from a like or dislike position as that is worth little. The plan instituted for safety is the issue at hand and safety should be the topic.

Lenny my point is we have a very minuscule scale of riders that have commented on this thread to represent anything more that whitedust, lenny, PR1, Russ & whoever shooting the breeze to draw any scientific conclusions about the new MI signage policy. I know when I blow the groomed trail & have to dig out I'm pissed at myself so go back & look to see if I missed a sign or what exactly happened? I did this before & after the new sign policy & when I do it guess what?... always a sign just a brain fart on my behalf what I saw was not what I thought I saw. Likes & dislikes affects the trails I frequent & I may not use a particular trail or area of trails because I don't like traffic patterns, terrain & yes even signage & if I think it is dangerous & Ricky will abuse his speed & control then something I would rather not be exposed. There is sooooooo much information we don't have from soooooo many riders that to me no conclusions can be made. Hopefully the MSA or MI DNR will ask & do a scientific survey & drill down get facts from the masses & publish the results. To me that would be the way to go from here since we have 1 season experience to new signage policy. I think I can say the PR presentation of the new MI sign policy to the public was abysmal & could have been handled in a much more organized & non threatening manner. As you said you had concerns as well & I'm just not sold that the correct siganage decision has been made & may morph to something else good or bad. No absolutes from me here & now just need more time like Russ said but I'm betting on some sign policy changes & some signs coming back or new signs to me are a real possibility the program too young to close the book now & should continue to improve at least I hope so.

 

[eagle1]

man, all I can say is "you guys are good"

agree to disagree and be done with it! sheesh.

 

[Polarice]

can you at least explain why, not trying to aggravate you, just curious, you never get very specific, just saying it's stupid.

I like to use the example of turn signs on curvy roads. Need I say more? Does this keep fast drivers fast because they know when there's a turn ahead?

 

[polarisrider1]

This is from the Executive Directors desk of trails Feb. 14th: Over Signing Our Trails

Many studies within the snowmobile industry throughout the U.S. and Canada have shown that we are over signing the trails. Snowmobilers are following the signs, and not paying attention to the actual curves in the trails. In an effort to slow traffic down some types of signs are going to be removed from our trails

Most signs denoting curves and chevrons will be removed from Michigan trails.

Issues are arising when a sign falls down. Lawsuits are being filed because other curves were signed. MSA believes removing these signs will NOT cause more accidents, but slow riders down.

Confidence markers will stay as well as “Stop Ahead” and informational signs. However, signs like, “Winding Trail, “Two-way Trail,” “Narrow Trail,” “Trail Crossing,” “Drift Area” and “Truck Traffic” will be eliminated.

This update of will also combine ATV and snowmobiling signs when and where they can be, and bring them all to a uniform size.

Currently, a snowmobile “Stop” sign is18x18 inches, while an ATV “Stop” sign is 24x24 inches. This revision will bring uniformity to the sizing of signs for motorized vehicles on the trails.

When approved, the new sign handbook will go into effect for the 2012-13 season. We will publish changes in the fall editions of the Michigan Snowmobile News, in other snowmobile magazines and on our Web site, www.msasnow.org. We will make every effort to educate snowmobilers regarding the changes.

In the end, it means it is time to start looking ahead at the actual design of the snowmobile trail and not relying on signs. It’s time to slow down and enjoy the view!

 

[Polarice]

Not true. I just pulled this off from the MSA site as quoted by the MSA President. "It is felt by many that part of the problem of excessive speed on our trails is the amount of signs that are on the trail. Some believe that people are riding from sign to sign. These same sign changes have been made in other states and parts of Canada." check it out at msasnow.org

I have not seen that before. It's different than what the DNR said. MSA are idiots as well IMO. I still have a membership because they do a lot of good. This is just the opposite.

 

[polarisrider1]

I have not seen that before. It's different than what the DNR said. MSA are idiots as well IMO. I still have a membership because they do a lot of good. This is just the opposite.

you are now speaking out of both sides of your mouth and have lost all credibility with me. good night.

 

[whitedust]

PR1that is old we need new information old information is just that old information we need something current to reflect user experience after this season. That survey I would luv to read.

 

[whitedust]

I have not seen that before. It's different than what the DNR said. MSA are idiots as well IMO. I still have a membership because they do a lot of good. This is just the opposite.

Just to be fair you are both correct & different statements came forward at differnt times from both MI DNR & MSA & this is why the PR program just plain SUCKED!! LOL

 

[polarisrider1]

Feb 14th is not so old.

PR that is old we need new information old information is just that old information we need something current to reflect user experience after this season. That survey I would luv to read.

 

[lenny]

I have not seen that before. It's different than what the DNR said. MSA are idiots as well IMO. I still have a membership because they do a lot of good. This is just the opposite.

the dnr said the dang same thing, the clutter thing was a result of the signage removal not a reason to take them down. I guess you know better than the dnr and msa

Polarice for president

 

[lenny]

PR1that is old we need new information old information is just that old information we need something current to reflect user experience after this season. That survey I would luv to read.

pete, seems like you will never concede. Most posts on this site were positive and the 13 page Skylar referenced was more positive than negative, your not gettin it are you. The info we do have says something, you cant just keep ignoring it and says something, just not what you wanna here

 

[polarisrider1]

Not all that many signs have been removed. Important intersection information signs actually have improved. do you really need a steep hill sign? would that change your mind about anything? how about a bridge ahead sign? they still have the hazzard markers on the bridges. How would you sign guys ever ride out in Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah or Montana is beyond me????? How do some of you make it out to the mail box and back?? Slow down just a touch and all is well.

 

[lenny]

Completely disagree, if you can't ride the trails, without a fricken sign every 20 yards, you shouldn't be snowmobiling.

smartest thing I heard in a long time,,,good thing were both married cause I love you for smartness

 

[lenny]

Not all that many signs have been removed. Important intersetcion information signs actually have improved. do you really need a steep hill sign? would that change your mind about anything? how about a bridge ahead sign? they still have the hazzard markers on the bridges. How would you sign guys ever ride out in Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah or Montana is beyond me????? How do some of you make it out to the mail box and back?? Slow down just a touch and all is well.

I was wondering something similar, i love to give these dudes a backwoods tour and ditch em, I'd be spring before they got out. They'd all be under nourished and eatin sticks. Not serious but come on!