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Deleted member 10829
Guest
The articulating rear suspension in the Voyager looks like a great idea for that application! I believe you Kip! 
Why does it matter to be #1? Does that mean #2, #3 & #4 suck? Only thing that can move the market is price... all of the OEMs make good machines.... no 4s from poo, poo 2s have problems. I don't see anything from Poo to have the market move to them only & I just see poo maintaining #2 & good for them. I just don't know what trade in value the market holds for poo engines so used sleds might just sit there at dealers? I'm gun shy of poo new 2s engines then buy a used poo not for me. If dealers get stuck holding 4000k mile sleds because the public is engine gun shy trade in value goes to nil on new. To me this is the problem poo dealers face not what poo offers for 2015 it is getting a buyer in a deal that works for the market. To me the used market will be glutted with Rush type sleds unless poo comes up with an affordable 2s engine replacement program.
momoney2123
New member
haha doesnt mean they suck....its just the benchmark...what every manufacturers ultimate goal is? Isnt it?
Being market share #1 has its perks, no doubt. $$$$$$$ being the big one. Doo can risk more and also afford to lose more if they have a hiccup and it wont sink them. Not to mention the extra money to spend on R&D that if were strapped couldnt happen to move foward.
i think its odd poo isnt entering the 4s market. Its the future IMO. Maybe not in 5 years but 20 years the 2s will be a thing of the past...hope im wrong but i think its reality.
polarisrider1
New member
Just got to love the Poo envy. Did I mention 3600 trouble free miles on my 12 800 Pro. If anyone gets a great deal on the so called problem 8's and want the sense of security just add the Bike man reliability kit for $500. I have seen these German engineered wonders. If you are intimidated at installing my brother does them for $300. My sled has original pistons.
momoney2123
New member
Dont forget to mention to turn the oil pump way up so it runs way rich and not to go over 8K RPM's.........for the average joe gas and go, its a major problem.
polarisrider1
New member
Yeah..it's POO envy....remember when you poo guys were hammering yamaha guys over having to buy wheels, and hand warmer kits??
LOL....but hey buy a RELIABILITY KIT for $500 dollars...plus $300 dollars....LMAO!!!
I can see it now....."my polaris axys handles "the BEST IN THE BIZ"....why's it on the trailer then?? "The motor blew"....LMAO... I really hope for you polaris fans that there are no engine issues next year...there sure where enough on this website this winter....it's hard to ride "the best in the BIZ"..if the motor is fried
New poo 800 electronic oil pump may not be adjustable?...don't know.... but does meter oil to where it needs to go. Is this the the key to less poo 800 problems ..sure hope so.... but again don't know.
polarisrider1
New member
Did I mention 3600 trouble free miles? Lol. Riding it today. (Lunch break).
momoney2123
New member
You do know 3600 miles isnt very much to brag about? Especially since you admitted having to turn the oil pump up and babying the sled so it doesnt go over 8K rpms, aka its max horsepower range.....lol
a busted skirt from a 15yr old motor
Being #1 in sales has nothing to do with profit margins you can be #1 & lose you arse all depends on cost of goods & how well mfg costs are controlled. Carbon fiber is not an inexpensive material so we will see if weight reduction is worth the added cost? To me the weight wars are crazy & does not matter to average joe trail rider he wants a sled that is touble free gas & go & yes 4s is more appealing to him if informed. Poo with 4s void is a huge hole for them many like the Viper & the Ace is gaining ground too. I"m not sure why Poo does not embrace 4s? I think poo missed the bus & the 4s void will hurt them & knocked them off my short list & others as well. I would consider a used 2s etec but not a used poo 2s & most used 4s are very good buys. Too much for poo to overcome to ever be #1 in near future stuck in #2 for a long long time & may struggle in coming years to hold on to #2 as far as trail sleds & that is bread & butter market.
polarisrider1
New member
I get great pleasure knowing you cat guys follow Polaris threads. Must be a reason for it!
momoney2123
New member
I mean I hear ya but the profit margins im sure are very close between them all. I would be willing to bet doo made the most money as well as most sales......
As far as the weight battle, thats just the name of the game for anything with an engine ever......power to weight is big in this industry, no denying that.
indy_500
Well-known member
3600 offtrail miles... He probably has as many hours on the motor as a trail rider with 7000+ would have
momoney2123
New member
Thats is true didnt think about that.
polarisrider1
New member
Thank you. Just watched your video while sitting out in the sticks on my sled using my phone. And when I was your age calculators weren't even invented yet. Have fun Indy!!!
Profit margins are internal numbers only no company let's those out for public consumption for a divison. Weight wars are going too far IMO as far as snowmobiles you do need certain amount of mass to hold a line & robust design to take a beating. To me snowmobiles are amazing machines to work in the enviroment of snow & ice + subzero temps & be a gas & go status. Same thing with boats you can so far with weight then becomes a problem. Never see auto mfgs talking about weight either once you get rolling & handle well not important any more. All the weight stuff was marketing by Doo now what??? ...lol..+ Ace 4s always going to weigh more by design... to me wieght just not that important to trail riders... Yes to powder but not trail. Once you go 4s weight goes out the window 2s will always be lighter.....just don't care anymore for me mostly 70-30 trail use.
momoney2123
New member
I guess you havent seen the new ford commercials talking about how they shaved a bunch of weight off the F series, anything with less weight=more efficient, less friction...and trail riding no doubt weight makes a huge difference on or off trail i dont care what you say haha, theres a reason an apex cant go over the bumps nor handle like a doo or poo or cat 2s for that matter. It physics, cant do it
All the weight stuff was marketing by Doo now what???
LOL what you mean now what? that has helped get them and stay at the top of the market, and the ACE 4s is lighter than any other 4s and those are selling like freaking hot cakes....
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And the only one threatening doo is poo, who has the same approach.......lighter=better.
its what everyone but the sunday strollers want
F
fusion
Guest
What sales guys (salesman) will never understand in a discussion with an accountant (cost accountant) is that you can make just as much money, if not MORE by selling at 2-3 points less margin, but higher volume. It's all about elasticity of demand, and the effect a drop in price has on demand (volume).
I'd say Polaris is doing very well, and probably poised to move equal to or past Doo in the coming years in volume sales.
Volume means a lot in my world, so there's something to be said for being number one in sales.
More volume also reduces unitized costs of production (setup and material costs) and therefore allows a manufacturer to discount if necessary, OR flat out drop prices to increase market share.
Besides cost reduction, in manufacturing, production volume is pretty high up on the list of priorities to control costs.
I'd say Polaris is doing very well, and probably poised to move equal to or past Doo in the coming years in volume sales.
Volume means a lot in my world, so there's something to be said for being number one in sales.
More volume also reduces unitized costs of production (setup and material costs) and therefore allows a manufacturer to discount if necessary, OR flat out drop prices to increase market share.
Besides cost reduction, in manufacturing, production volume is pretty high up on the list of priorities to control costs.