Thanks for the review. I'm hoping next season will be the one for me to upgrade. Guy I ride with has a ZR800 and it's a great ride. Seems like it would be great to get that chassis with the yami engine to keep it for a long time. If it holds its own up to 90 I wouldn't need any more than that. The 800 is great in it but it takes a lot of gas too.
Thanks for the review. I'm hoping next season will be the one for me to upgrade. Guy I ride with has a ZR800 and it's a great ride. Seems like it would be great to get that chassis with the yami engine to keep it for a long time. If it holds its own up to 90 I wouldn't need any more than that. The 800 is great in it but it takes a lot of gas too.
I put 4K on my E-Tek 800 and love it - no issues. Spark plugs have never been out and wont be for another 2K miles. To try and be as impartial as I can - I agree a 2 stroke motor will never be as reliable as a four stroke. That said, if you asked me 8 years ago how reliable a Doo 800 motor is I would have to honestly have said that they blow up too often but I like the lower weight/power ratio so i am willing to deal with the possibility of grenading the motor. From what I can tell I think they somehow have finally created a reliable 800 motor. This from hanging out in the Doo chat and talking to my service guy. I feel the cost of injector oil balances with the cost of oil changes. You do have to watch things more with a two stroke - check your compression (I will at 6k) Change the rings and/or pistons if the compression is not good (much easier than on a four stroke). stuff like that. I spent a good 50-70 miles on a Viper last year. It's a good sled. My sled just feels so much lighter though. My friend put 16K on one of his Yamaha's. It would be unusual to get that out of a two stroke motor. But I have heard of several ETEK 800's going over 10K without problems. Maybe they really have finally made a reliable high power (163hp) two stroke?
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fusion
Guest
Amen to that. I'm a lot older than you and that means nothing to me. It's all about corner to corner trail riding power for me and the Vector had that all day. I really got impressed with that sled after it broke in.
Fact is when I lined that vector up against the apex on hard pack it wasn't close at all. Apex was studded so not a perfect comparison. But the Apex power is not something I need at all.
Talk about hijacking my own thread - I'm considering a Nytro at a great price. I can warm it up with a higher windshield and gauntlets. My only concern is resale and 540 lbs.
Fusion : I liked the Nytro a lot very quick sled,fun to ride feels like a rocket, easy to stand up, wind protection issues can be corrected but I could not get past 7 gallon tank & I ride areas in UP where range is an issue. You ride 90% of your miles in Vilas so not so much an issue for you. You hate weighty 4s sleds so difficult for me to understand why you would consider Nyto or Viper??? You also hate AC dating back to mid 90s so to me you should be looking at a poo or doo 2s where resale is easy when you dump it in 2-3 years with low milage. Some peeps are 4s guys for big miles some are better off with 2s sleds low mile riders where weight is the most important factor. Not sure why you are considering a Viper & with my seat time on Pat's demo Viper I really don't think you would like the sled at all. Do the doo mxz 600 or 800 much more comparable sled to your 600 Rush which you luv.
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fusion
Guest
Yeah I hear you, there are things about sleds that bring out the illogical side in me which is rare.
I like the reliability of the Yamaha motor and when my engineer tight wad bro jumps at the opportunity to buy one it says something.
Price is a factor here too and this Nytro is a bargain.
I got a spoiled little 17.5 yr old kid that will ride it the most. But as long
as I can jump on it from time to time I like variety in life.
Dealer tells me resale not much of an issue but have to factor in demand being sky high with
Best conditions in 20 years last year.
That fuel injected Vector I think was slightly quicker than the Rush, but Rush not yet broken in.
I wouldn't under estimate that vector motor, I felt a bit lacking when I got on the Rush after riding the Vector in the power dept.
We will see this season. Getting hyped a bit now.
I like the reliability of the Yamaha motor and when my engineer tight wad bro jumps at the opportunity to buy one it says something.
Price is a factor here too and this Nytro is a bargain.
I got a spoiled little 17.5 yr old kid that will ride it the most. But as long
as I can jump on it from time to time I like variety in life.
Dealer tells me resale not much of an issue but have to factor in demand being sky high with
Best conditions in 20 years last year.
That fuel injected Vector I think was slightly quicker than the Rush, but Rush not yet broken in.
I wouldn't under estimate that vector motor, I felt a bit lacking when I got on the Rush after riding the Vector in the power dept.
We will see this season. Getting hyped a bit now.
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Ride what you like people...I have owned ridden them all...and like you...know what I like...the viper is a nice sled...it's not meant to run with 800s...so I don't get that comparison at all...and you don't need a turbo to make it faster...plenty of clutching tricks on the market to improve performance. ..if that's what you are after. I don't know why anyone who rides 800s would look at a viper...it's basically a 700 class sled (or fast 600)...nothing more....and they aren't anywhere near 14,000 dollars...if your viper is slower than an etc 600 or feels like a 500 ...you have something wrong with it...first year sleds always have bugs..the viper is no different. ...it sure seems like some of you are far more critical of yamaha. ..and hold them to a higher standard. ..and it's usually the guys who ride yellow..who seem to be the most out spoken...I could careless what you ride...I will still ride with you...we each have our own core values as riders...I prefer reliability over performance. ...in fact...if I was to spend 14,000 on a sled...it would be the new Pantera limited...yami 4 stroke..with all the bells and whistles...a cadillac on snow if you will...20 years ago..I would have scoffed at such a sled...back then...it was give me the fastest one, with the lowest windshield...clutch kits...pipes...u name it..I tried it...lol...after many bouts with frost bite, and failed engines...I learned my lesson...now I want to be warm and comfy, and hope not to touch a tool kit....I let the young fellows blow by...don't care...I just want to ride...don't need the speed stuff anymore
dfattack
Well-known member
yeah, I've never had to change one! Ever...
Yes bargains can be had on Nytros until gone...Nytro used resale demand???.... not so sure in 2-3 years no idea what AC & Yamaha are up to right now but have stated new products coming and ski doo over due for new products & will want to bury poo axys. A bargain now but may not be such a good idea down the road. There is a extended range gas tank for Nytro but then may not be a bargain to add it. You have me convinced you are best off with a 2s , low mile 600 twisty rider, no oil changes just add 2s oil, change plugs grease & sell the sled in 2 years at a good resale price....4s just does not fit that application wise.
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fusion
Guest
Something about the 1050 4 stroke motor bit me hard last year. Love that motor. The only other motor I recall I was as passionate about was that 600 HO in the Formula 3 Doo. That thing felt like it pulled all day.
Loved that Rotax motor, but those 90's Doo suspensions were some stiff buggers. Rode like trucks, that and the MXZ's.
Loved that Rotax motor, but those 90's Doo suspensions were some stiff buggers. Rode like trucks, that and the MXZ's.
indy_500
Well-known member
He traded it in on an 800 etec, he was disappointed in the power also. I'm just telling it like it was and fact of the matter was it was a pooch. Pushed through corners but the suspension felt like a dream.Indy, LOL!! Kind of like that chevy with way more power but to scared to hook onto that F-150!!! You crack me up dudeCook and Byrn are waiting for you to go riding with them on wheelkate hill too
Yep 1050 4 stroke motor is comparable to 700 2s not 800 2s. I luv Nytro rear exhaust engine too & easy transition to stand up but weight will always be there. Viper was just ok but not the outrageous pull of the Nytro imo. I keep sleds much longer than you put on big miles so 4s all the way for me. I thought about a Nytro to play in ditches stuff like that, no teenage son excuse for me, lol.. I had to remember my age be honest with myself about 90% of my riding habits & came up Apex XTX with eps.Luv the sled added a riser for stand up this year tried it last week & I'm there now perfect sled for me for next 10K miles or more. Sometimes little improvements get you what you want don't have to buy a new sled at least for me.
No, I was a loyal blue Yamaha guy until the Viper came out. Now I care about comfort, weight and good motor. Not what brand it is or isn't.
Last time I checked I thought I could do good math. Last year the Viper was $12,500 x 1.05 = $13,125 add dealer ship fees, carbides, DuPont slides studs and other things and yes you are at $14,000 sled.
2015 Viper LTX SE - $11,899 x 1.05 = $12,494 plus add the other items and you are still over $13,000. Not worth the money for this type of sled. 600 Pro-S, 600 Etec, 900 Ace clutched, 800 Etec, 800 Axys can all be had for this price. A vector for around 10,000 is a much better option. That is my point on the viper.
I was an Apex guy but I didn't like the weight of the Apex or any 4 stroke. Going 20 miles in the UP or up north on 2' moguls is ZERO fun on an Apex at any speed. If you ride on any R-motion sled and you will be sold on that suspension or there is no hope for your blue blindness.
I am sure the AXYS will also give the R-Motion some competition this year which is good for all of us.
If you want to pay high money for a Viper go ahead. As a fellow sledder I am just trying to tell you there are a lot of better sleds to spend your money.
I would think the guy buying a 2015 800 X after he had a 2014 viper with turbo would tell you all you need to know about the Viper sled.
Fusion if you liked the Vector I would look for a 2014 leftover Vector with EPS. I also thought that was the best sled Yamaha made for trail riding.
I am trying the 900 Ace this year with a clutch kit to see if Ski Doo could make the 4 stroke feel like a two stoke.
momoney2123
New member
same thing as the guy on dootalk, had a 2014 turbo viper and bought a gade xrs 800etec this year.
Did u rid of your 800etec? Gona be a big power loss with 900ace as im sure u already know. No X package either, correct? I can say tho I was suprised at the punch of that engine for only a 90hp rating.
Let us know what you think of it!
No, I still have the 800 etec. It will be second sled with wife and my son using it. Clutch kit was for me. If I can get it to act like a 600 etec and be light steering. It may be the sled all of us 4 strokes guys were asking Yamaha to build with the viper.
If it is then next year bye 800 and hello 900 ace, turbo and clutch kit with R-Motion. I would rather have the Nytro motor with mpi turbo on the ski doo suspension but that is a really expensive sled to make.
If it is then next year bye 800 and hello 900 ace, turbo and clutch kit with R-Motion. I would rather have the Nytro motor with mpi turbo on the ski doo suspension but that is a really expensive sled to make.
All brands have their model differences need to buy the right horse for the course. Vector LTX with dampers & eps truly is a sweet riding trail sled,the nytro now gone was an outstanding banger & 1050 4 stroke motor blend, Viper is a much more civilized banger or trail sled & can be morphed to an effective deep snow sled...you have to like having your knees bent back not as relaxed as Apex , Vector or doo xp imo. Apex xtx with exup riser & eps is going to get up & go out of the box with any 800 2s sled but if you can't manage the dead lift weight on trailers or whatever not the sled to consider. I ride with 2 Apex XTXs & 1 Apex SE & we are talking big miles every time out no one complains about weight & we prefer twistys & sweeper trails grade ok but gets boring so stay off only connectors. Price wise Pat's has always been reasonable compared to other dealers takes trade ins easy to deal with. I can say both Kip & Chad will say no one gets Yamaha MSRP so don't think what is printed in the mags is accurate on price you have to go in & work out your best price. I put duponts on my Apex XTX but other bud does not on his XTX & other bud does not use duponts on his Apex Se not problems for any of us. If you want to upgrade to duponts go ahead & do it but not necessary...I upgraded to iceripper track as well again just the right horse for the course for me.
powderburner
New member
You have to be honest with yourself about what the Viper is - it's an AC with the 1049 under the hood. Yes, it has Yamaha clutches. Other than cosmetics, that's where Yamaha ends their commitment on this machine. Look at the VIN on a Viper - they all start 4UF - which is Arctic Cat's WMI. Yamaha couldn't even be bothered to put their own serial numbers on "their" sled.
I rode an Apex GT for 5 years. Great sled - never left me walking. Toward the end of last season I started to form the opinion that the Apex had to go, time for something new. So I demo'd a Viper from Antigo Yamaha. Joe let me go ahead and take it for a jam - no factory goons to get in my way. He told me before I even got on it that a lot of Apex guys didn't like this sled because the power was nowhere near the same. Turns out I'm one of them.
The best way I could describe the sled would be "LAZY." It was a real pooch up top. Low end grunt was good, and while lighter than the Apex, still is heavy up front. I was not impressed and returned the sled after only riding it a few miles - 10 at the most was all it took for me to not like this sled. I thanked Joe for letting me ride it and finished out the season on my Apex.
If I had to buy this sled I would get it in Arctic Cat trim and do some clutch work right away. IMO, the AC graphics are much better looking and I'd feel more "honest" about it since the sled really is an Arctic Cat anyhow.
Another thing to consider when purchasing a Viper: Is your Yamaha dealer also a Cat dealer? If the answer is 'NO' consider that he probably doesn't stock a whole lot of Arctic Cat parts and his techs aren't likely to be as familiar with Cats as the guys working at a Cat dealer.
For me, at the end of the day, as much as I liked my Apex there was just no denying that the real Yamaha snowmobile is a dinosaur, and as such, there was no way I was going to shell out over 10k for one. I too bit the 2 stroke bullet - but went Polaris instead of Doo.
I rode an Apex GT for 5 years. Great sled - never left me walking. Toward the end of last season I started to form the opinion that the Apex had to go, time for something new. So I demo'd a Viper from Antigo Yamaha. Joe let me go ahead and take it for a jam - no factory goons to get in my way. He told me before I even got on it that a lot of Apex guys didn't like this sled because the power was nowhere near the same. Turns out I'm one of them.
The best way I could describe the sled would be "LAZY." It was a real pooch up top. Low end grunt was good, and while lighter than the Apex, still is heavy up front. I was not impressed and returned the sled after only riding it a few miles - 10 at the most was all it took for me to not like this sled. I thanked Joe for letting me ride it and finished out the season on my Apex.
If I had to buy this sled I would get it in Arctic Cat trim and do some clutch work right away. IMO, the AC graphics are much better looking and I'd feel more "honest" about it since the sled really is an Arctic Cat anyhow.
Another thing to consider when purchasing a Viper: Is your Yamaha dealer also a Cat dealer? If the answer is 'NO' consider that he probably doesn't stock a whole lot of Arctic Cat parts and his techs aren't likely to be as familiar with Cats as the guys working at a Cat dealer.
For me, at the end of the day, as much as I liked my Apex there was just no denying that the real Yamaha snowmobile is a dinosaur, and as such, there was no way I was going to shell out over 10k for one. I too bit the 2 stroke bullet - but went Polaris instead of Doo.