Don't care those temps are too cold for 4s having oil in tank & crank bad application.
Reviews of renegade backcountry from the artic north
- Thread starter momoney2123
- Start date
Don't care those temps are too cold for 4s having oil in tank & crank bad application.
Totally Disagree with that statement....Cat makes great Chassis'...Yamaha make excellent engines...after puking my f-1000...getting it rebuilt, and then having the stator blow...all under 3,000 miles...You will never convince me that Suzuki makes a BETTER motor than yamaha....that engine in the Viper has proven it's self.....and I happen to love the 4 strokes ...won't catch me on another two smoke...I only ride trails, lakes and a few forest service roads....if I rode off trail more...I'd own a two stroke...and yes ...it would be the 800 cat XF.....for the average trail rider...four strokes are an excellent choice...they may not be for everybody...but those that own them seem to really like them.
Also 2 new pure Yamaha sleds in the pipeline now so not sitting back at all.
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lenny
Guest
what sled are you referring to?
momoney2123
New member
Viper
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lenny
Guest
I wonder if he had it reflashed and still wouldn't start because the rest of the Yamaha fleet respond well to a block heaters and for the most part start well,,,of course there is the occasional fuel relay issue. Did he have starting issues with his Nytro?
momoney2123
New member
He had it reflashed numerous times. If i remember yamaha was working close with the dealer trying to figure it out. Dealer
even installed a custom primer on it...like the old two stroke carbed sleds had. Nytro wasnt nearly as bad as viper. If he plugged the nyrto in below -25, it would start. He did all sorts of tests trying to figure it out. Had it all last year and never consistanly could get it running after it sat out in the cold for a night. You should really watch season 2014. Think he they finally got it figured out in January this year but he decided he was.moving on when it started working. U feel pretty bad for the guy if you see what he went thru. Basically everytime out, he had issues with something.
snobuilder
Well-known member
i'm not a mechanic but when the 1050 was transplanted into the Cat chassis the timing curve, Ecu, fuel delivery, blah blah blah was changed....maybe due to the side exhaust, I have no idea, but in the Nytro the sled started and ran everytime...no reflash, no return to the dealer no lost trail time.
Worse case scenario is the Yamaha triple is lunchng starters and ring gears ...due to timing kickback if you ask me....this may sound like it is not a big deal until you realize the starter and ring gear are iNTERNAL to the engine, crankcase....a huge chitshow when she blows.
That goes directly to Yamaha. I can't understand what they was thinking. It makes this joint venture a loser.
Worse case scenario is the Yamaha triple is lunchng starters and ring gears ...due to timing kickback if you ask me....this may sound like it is not a big deal until you realize the starter and ring gear are iNTERNAL to the engine, crankcase....a huge chitshow when she blows.
That goes directly to Yamaha. I can't understand what they was thinking. It makes this joint venture a loser.
yamaha makes a fine motor but cant match the performance of the 9000 even with a turbo. and that 9000 turbo is bullet proof even with a stage 3 flash .
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lenny
Guest
speaking of shop time, reliability,,etc
Seems like just a few Yamaha recalls compared to the rest and I don't even own a Yamaha. Recalls mean mistakes and fixes.
Ezra, the Yamaha non turbo motors way out perform the non turbo cat motor, The cat twin is a pooch (123 hp) compared to the Yamaha's. The non -turbos make up the majority of trail sled so not seeing a lot of relevence in your point
http://wemakeitsafer.com/Snowmobiles-Recalls?start_index=40&view=lv&yeart=1&catt=1
Seems like just a few Yamaha recalls compared to the rest and I don't even own a Yamaha. Recalls mean mistakes and fixes.
Ezra, the Yamaha non turbo motors way out perform the non turbo cat motor, The cat twin is a pooch (123 hp) compared to the Yamaha's. The non -turbos make up the majority of trail sled so not seeing a lot of relevence in your point
http://wemakeitsafer.com/Snowmobiles-Recalls?start_index=40&view=lv&yeart=1&catt=1
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I said 9000 the turd is a 4000 or something like that
the majority really ?who buys them think I have seen 10 turbo to every 1 wife sled out there . I agree the Yamaha is a fine motor but even with a turbo it can never make the power of the cat with out blowing.
I do think it is a fine motor just don't know why u buy one then drop a extra 4g on making it sort of fast. imho they are both heavy aarp approved options
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lenny
Guest
bogus! Yamaha Push turbo 210 hp 7 lb on 92 octane, very reliable. AC runs 177 hp,,,,no brainer. Sorta faster than AC is what you meant,,, right?
Yamaha Factory rep at sneak peek told me 2 newbies pure Yamaha sleds in the pipeline for release & I would like them coming off Apex XTX. He also said OEM Agreement with Cat over & done in 5 years & served its' purpose to get Yamaha thru earthquake recovery & recession. Sounded like 2017 product release. Only thing that surprised me is that Yamaha sled assembly done in TRF in 2 more years makes me think whatever is coming in next 2 years will bridge Viper,Vector & Apex probably Apex & Vector first then Viper in 2 years is my best guess from conversation. But some pure Yamaha sleds are coming within 2years that I don't doubt.
momoney2123
New member
Seems all the 4 strokes run well and are reliable on boost. There are a ton of 1200 doos out there as well. Stage 1 220hp+ on pump gas. Buddy has a stage 2 he trail rides 350hp
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Yamaha Factory rep at sneak peek told me 2 newbies pure Yamaha sleds in the pipeline for release & I would like them coming off Apex XTX. He also said OEM Agreement with Cat over & done in 5 years & served its' purpose to get Yamaha thru earthquake recovery & recession. Sounded like 2017 product release. Only thing that surprised me is that Yamaha sled assembly done in TRF in 2 more years makes me think whatever is coming in next 2 years will bridge Viper,Vector & Apex probably Apex & Vector first then Viper in 2 years is my best guess from conversation. But some pure Yamaha sleds are coming within 2years that I don't doubt.
I hope they do, that makes sense. Now if they came back with a direct injected 2 stroke they would really make some noise.
I hope they do, that makes sense. Now if they came back with a direct injected 2 stroke they would really make some noise.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that will happen as costs too much for Yamaha to tool up for 2s engines. If another OEM would buy 2s from them yes but I don't see that happening in near or long future.....Yamaha, imo, will continue to be 4s only sleds.
I don't think that will happen as costs too much for Yamaha to tool up for 2s engines. If another OEM would buy 2s from them yes but I don't see that happening in near or long future.....Yamaha, imo, will continue to be 4s only sleds.
I don't think that will happen as costs too much for Yamaha to tool up for 2s engines. If another OEM would buy 2s from them yes but I don't see that happening in near or long future.....Yamaha, imo, will continue to be 4s only sleds.[/QUOTE]
It would be cool if Yami brings something new to the market. I think anyone without blinders can see that all 4 have brought innovation at different times and Yamaha has seemed to be sitting still for a while.
Yamaha has newer 2 stroke technology in outboards and dirt bikes, so I'm hopeful they'll get back into it with sleds too. I realize it's probably not likely, not trying to argue that. The growth has been mountain sleds and overseas markets, both of which where 2 strokes are still king.
momoney2123
New member
Depends on what yamaha's goals are. Sticking with purely 4 strokes they will be in the back of the pack for awhile. They bet big bucks back in 2003 that 4 strokes were taking over,which hasnt happened yet. fortunetely the others kept investing in 2 strokes. As mentioned in the generation 2 etec article. the 2 stroke boat engine technology naturally converts into sled engines, at least for BRP. you would think yamaha would want to get some ROI on there boat engine 2 stroke direct injection technology.
It would be cool if Yami brings something new to the market. I think anyone without blinders can see that all 4 have brought innovation at different times and Yamaha has seemed to be sitting still for a while.
Yamaha has newer 2 stroke technology in outboards and dirt bikes, so I'm hopeful they'll get back into it with sleds too. I realize it's probably not likely, not trying to argue that. The growth has been mountain sleds and overseas markets, both of which where 2 strokes are still king.[/QUOTE]
To me 2s sleds not in the cards for Yamaha & will address all market segments with 4s just as they have done with the Viper. Who knows what next generation platform will weigh?.... Yamaha has heard the weight issue....LOL.... Could be new engines as well that could weigh less and Yamaha has methods to reduce engine braking. I'm sure they are prepared to offer an exciting new 4s platform to what the market wants...if not why do it?.... they are in biz to succeed & make money.
momoney2123
New member
To me 2s sleds not in the cards for Yamaha & will address all market segments with 4s just as they have done with the Viper. Who knows what next generation platform will weigh?.... Yamaha has heard the weight issue....LOL.... Could be new engines as well that could weigh less and Yamaha has methods to reduce engine braking. I'm sure they are prepared to offer an exciting new 4s platform to what the market wants...if not why do it?.... they are in biz to succeed & make money.[/QUOTE]
There is a lot of weight to be cut on 4 strokes. Carbon fiber..small displacement 4 strokes with turbos. But these things also cost a lot of money. The offtrail market is the fastest growing. Only way in my opinion to be cost competetive is with a 2 stroke. Otherwise they will just be too heavy to truly compete.
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I would also thing Yamaha would update their 4 strokes into being competitive with the ACE models for efficiency. For the people who want good gas mileage, the yamahas just arent as efficient. Those engines are pretty old technology. I would assume something is in the works.