2 Stroke E-Tek vs. 4-Tek or 4S Yam

[rocketman356]

Time to formulate a decision for next year regarding new sled. After much consideration I've about 95% decided to go back to a 2-Stroke for one of my sleds. The only thing I would consider would be an E-Tek. It's not that I don't like the 4-strokes. But a couple of things about them are really bothersome.
1.) Weight - although you don't feel it on the trail, when you have to pick these things up to get them on dollies to move in/out of garage, or pull or pick them up to get them on a trailer - WOW - backache. As much as you try, invariably you end up moving these things around on your own and they are a killer. But that alone wouldn't make me change.
2.) Oil changes - I'd love to hear feedback on this one. First of all, it sounds too complicated for me to do on my own. I know most of you are mechanically orented and this might not be intimidating, but for a guy like me, when it comes to basic disassembly and reconnecting things like air boxes and head-light pods, I go into anxiety attach mode. I normally wind up PO'd at some point, and the frustation isn't worth the time and effort. So what do I do? Take it to a dealer. I used a dealer for the Vector in the fall that saved me a bit, even though they quoted less, it still cost me approx. $105. The Apex was done this past weekend to the tune of $160 - at an authorized dealer. To me, this is just crazy for an oil change.

I could buy 4 gd gallons of oil for $160 and just ride an E-Tek for 5 years. Not to mention I'm never inconveniced with having to take my sled in for an oil change. For a guy like me that rides 500 - 1000 miles a year, I think a 2-stroke makes more sense. These E-Tek 600's go about 420 lbs., compared to the dry weight apex/vector at 575 - 590. That's a big difference.

The other two factors you have to consider are:
1.) Resale - the 4-stroke probably holds value a bit better than a 2, but if you trade or move to a 2 yr. newer model every other year, is the difference significant? Seems to me, the 4-stroke might make sense if you are keeping them for 4+ years.
2.) Quality: Yamaha 4-stroke quality vs. BRP 2-stroke. Don't know how to quantify this, but I'm looking for opinions. So far, other than a minor adjustment to the reverse mechanism on the Apex, I haven't had any warranty claims or any problems, other than lousy hand warmers, fixed with a $150 mod and 1 hr. labor. Looking back several years, I owned a few Doo's in the 90's, and many Poo's, with no warranty problems and no burndowns. For the way I ride, I don't see a difference, but again, looking for any/all comments.

One more thing - does anyone have feedback on the 4-Tek and if it's easier or possible to do an oil change on your own? How does oil change on 4-Tek compare to 4S Yamaha?
TIA

Hello ,Our riding group had four 2009 4tec's and we all think they are a great sled.With the miles yaa ride you really wouldn't need to change oil but every other year and it is easy as stated on a earlier post.The miles you ride a season and when you trade as often as you do I don't see the need for a four stroke.I have a new 2 stroke 800 backcountry gade and its the best sled I have owned.Any issue s with the new 800 E tek will be addressed by next season and Doo has a new suspension for next season also.The Doo's really out handle the yammies in the rough.But I think any of the sleds you mentioned yaa will be happy .

 

[1200renegadeskidoo]

A buddy of mine is looking to buy another sled and he is looking at the 800r carb 2s. Ive tried to sell him on the 4s so we will see.

 

[uncle_ed]

After riding for years on 2 strokes I too jumped into the world of 4 stroke snowmobiles looking for long term dependability. My Apex fit the bill and gave me trouble free riding since 2007 except for having to replace the exhaust donuts the end of last season. I really loved everything about the sled except for as you pointed out the weight when handling the machine when not running. I thought about the 4tec but was leary of the extra weight so I opted for a 600 etec and couldnt be happier at this point with about 700 miles under my belt. Time will tell if it gives me years of trouble free service but I did wait till BRP had that engine out for 3 years before I pulled the trigger and so far so good {knock on wood}. My nephew has the 800 etec and I can honestly say that my 6 has all the power I personally need and would not go with the 8 unless I went long track for off trail riding. The 6 pulls hard on the trail and gets to the big end pretty quick. It handles so light to the touch that it is just a blast! I will wait and see how well it holds up and then think about another one for the wife as it is a good all around sled to have in the family. I wouldnt think of giving my wife my apex before although Im sure there are women out there that do ride them well.

Every sled has its + and - so in the end it is a matter of personal preference and what works for you and your riding style.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[timo]

im a ski doo guy and thought long and hard about getting the ace 4 stroke but ended up buying a 600 etec renegade x package. probably spent a little more money than i wanted to but oh well. my renegade is flawless, i don't feel bumps, its light and quick, quiet, i think i went almost 700 miles before i had to fill it with oil. its quiet and sips gas the the tune of about 17-20 miles a gallon. i think with these etec motors all you have to do is put gas and a little oil in them and you'll have no issues at all. the only reason i didn't buy a four was because of the weight i just didn't want to ride all day on a machine that was that heavy. and for me when comaparing the durability and economics of an etec it was a no brainer. 3 of my buddies also ride etecs and they will never ride anything else. on a side note i still have my 99 mxz 600 with 11,000 mile and have done no engine work at all. i just fog the motor put stabil in it and grease it. my biased opinion is you cannot go wrong with any doo. good luck.

 

[ajviper]

i am going through the same thoughts as you. I'm considering either the 600etec or yamaha nytro and I'm leaning towards the etec. Like you, it's partly due to the low miles i ride per yr (700-1000 miles) and my riding style of 50/50 on and off trail.

As far as weights go...if you're considering the mxz600etec (425lbs), i'd compare it to a nytro and not a vector or apex. THe apex and vector are another 50-70lbs heavier than the nytro. However, if I had to choose between the mxz4tec and Nytro, I'd go with the Nytro.

 

[teamblue]

Time to formulate a decision for next year regarding new sled. After much consideration I've about 95% decided to go back to a 2-Stroke for one of my sleds. The only thing I would consider would be an E-Tek. It's not that I don't like the 4-strokes. But a couple of things about them are really bothersome.
1.) Weight - although you don't feel it on the trail, when you have to pick these things up to get them on dollies to move in/out of garage, or pull or pick them up to get them on a trailer - WOW - backache. As much as you try, invariably you end up moving these things around on your own and they are a killer. But that alone wouldn't make me change.
2.) Oil changes - I'd love to hear feedback on this one. First of all, it sounds too complicated for me to do on my own. I know most of you are mechanically orented and this might not be intimidating, but for a guy like me, when it comes to basic disassembly and reconnecting things like air boxes and head-light pods, I go into anxiety attach mode. I normally wind up PO'd at some point, and the frustation isn't worth the time and effort. So what do I do? Take it to a dealer. I used a dealer for the Vector in the fall that saved me a bit, even though they quoted less, it still cost me approx. $105. The Apex was done this past weekend to the tune of $160 - at an authorized dealer. To me, this is just crazy for an oil change.

I could buy 4 gd gallons of oil for $160 and just ride an E-Tek for 5 years. Not to mention I'm never inconveniced with having to take my sled in for an oil change. For a guy like me that rides 500 - 1000 miles a year, I think a 2-stroke makes more sense. These E-Tek 600's go about 420 lbs., compared to the dry weight apex/vector at 575 - 590. That's a big difference.

The other two factors you have to consider are:
1.) Resale - the 4-stroke probably holds value a bit better than a 2, but if you trade or move to a 2 yr. newer model every other year, is the difference significant? Seems to me, the 4-stroke might make sense if you are keeping them for 4+ years.
2.) Quality: Yamaha 4-stroke quality vs. BRP 2-stroke. Don't know how to quantify this, but I'm looking for opinions. So far, other than a minor adjustment to the reverse mechanism on the Apex, I haven't had any warranty claims or any problems, other than lousy hand warmers, fixed with a $150 mod and 1 hr. labor. Looking back several years, I owned a few Doo's in the 90's, and many Poo's, with no warranty problems and no burndowns. For the way I ride, I don't see a difference, but again, looking for any/all comments.

One more thing - does anyone have feedback on the 4-Tek and if it's easier or possible to do an oil change on your own? How does oil change on 4-Tek compare to 4S Yamaha?
TIA

You can change the oil in a Yamaha 4s in about 40 minutes,and about $35. $160 is way out there, never would I pay that. It's not that hard to do.

Never would I give up the Quality of a Yamaha sled for any of the others.

Weight, Im so tired of hearing about this. Do you guys ride your sleds or carry them around? My 5'2" 125lbs wife rides a Apex and never once has she complained about the weight, at the end of a 140 mile day she is not tired or sore from riding and is ready to ride the next day.

Quality for us, that's why we wont own anything but a Yamaha sled.

 

[snow_monkey]

After riding for years on 2 strokes I too jumped into the world of 4 stroke snowmobiles looking for long term dependability. My Apex fit the bill and gave me trouble free riding since 2007 except for having to replace the exhaust donuts the end of last season. I really loved everything about the sled except for as you pointed out the weight when handling the machine when not running. I thought about the 4tec but was leary of the extra weight so I opted for a 600 etec and couldnt be happier at this point with about 700 miles under my belt. Time will tell if it gives me years of trouble free service but I did wait till BRP had that engine out for 3 years before I pulled the trigger and so far so good {knock on wood}. My nephew has the 800 etec and I can honestly say that my 6 has all the power I personally need and would not go with the 8 unless I went long track for off trail riding. The 6 pulls hard on the trail and gets to the big end pretty quick. It handles so light to the touch that it is just a blast! I will wait and see how well it holds up and then think about another one for the wife as it is a good all around sled to have in the family. I wouldnt think of giving my wife my apex before although Im sure there are women out there that do ride them well.

Every sled has its + and - so in the end it is a matter of personal preference and what works for you and your riding style.

Good luck with your decision!

Well said, people are very sensitive when it comes to what they own and they all want to feel they made the right decision. My feelings are whatever you pick it's your choice. Take your time do the research then pull the trigger. Every sled has it's good and bad points. The 600 e-tech is very capable of getting you into alot of trouble fast and I agree it is a ton of bang for the buck. The new ski-doo four stroke is only the start of the four stroke wars. Every year the fours are getting better and better. I am not brand loyal and this does not sit well with my brand loyal friends. A few of my cat friends will not even sit on my doo? In my opinion if I put on more than 3,000 miles a year a four stroke would be a no brainer. In a few years stuff wears out as many four stroke owners have come forward with long term maintenance issues but all sleds have issues it is just part of the deal. I do my own maintenance and the ability to rip a sled apart was important to me. The day I brought her home I had every panel off the sled and my wife freaked out when she saw I had torn her apart.

 

[fusion]

i am going through the same thoughts as you. I'm considering either the 600etec or yamaha nytro and I'm leaning towards the etec. Like you, it's partly due to the low miles i ride per yr (700-1000 miles) and my riding style of 50/50 on and off trail.

As far as weights go...if you're considering the mxz600etec (425lbs), i'd compare it to a nytro and not a vector or apex. THe apex and vector are another 50-70lbs heavier than the nytro. However, if I had to choose between the mxz4tec and Nytro, I'd go with the Nytro.

I actually have thought long and hard about a Nytro. I've looked at them closely at least 5 times, but never have ridden one. My only major complaints:
1.) Band-aid of a windshield that needs to be upgraded to at least a mid-height, if not full height windshield. Offers zero wind protection and I've heard they are cold. Sled doesn't look as nice with the full size windshield - I've seen them.
2.) Very poor resale due to initial problems and perceptions associated with those 1st few years. Low market demand - very few people want these sleds, so when you go to sell them , you are selling into a limited prospective customer base. Makes it harder to move.

But I love the motor.

 

[snow_monkey]

I actually have thought long and hard about a Nytro. I've looked at them closely at least 5 times, but never have ridden one. My only major complaints:
1.) Band-aid of a windshield that needs to be upgraded to at least a mid-height, if not full height windshield. Offers zero wind protection and I've heard they are cold. Sled doesn't look as nice with the full size windshield - I've seen them.
2.) Very poor resale due to initial problems and perceptions associated with those 1st few years. Low market demand - very few people want these sleds, so when you go to sell them , you are selling into a limited prospective customer base. Makes it harder to move.

But I love the motor.

Shopping for a new sled is alot of fun. I have purchased only 2 new sleds and I found if it is important to be ready to pull the trigger by early August. This gives you enough time to find a leftover before the madness begins and customize it before snow time. Also the sno-show will be just around the corner for you to formulate your final thoughts. I changed my mind on my sled purchase during this years sno-show. My butt was almost on a new f-8 sno-pro and decided on brp last minute. I see alot of leftover cats this year and it should make for some great deals in the upcoming months. I also contacted trusted sled mechanics at the places I do business to get their two cents for what it was worth. Good luck and keep us posted on what you get!!!!!!

 

[FZ1]

I have a 1000 miles this season on my '09 Fx Nytro XTX and will not go back to a 2 smoke. I'm 5'6" and 160lbs. I've riden 250 miles in a day no problem. Extra weight of the 4 stroke is a none issue. The engine is incredible. Its quiet, very smooth, and is bullet proof for many miles. This is my first year with it and could not be happier. The sled had 3k on it when I bought it. I had to replace the a-arm bushings ($80), exhaust donuts ($50), and hyfax ($35). All of which took 3 hours total to do myself. Changing oil took about 30 minutes and cost about $50 (full synthetic oil) with a filter change. Getting 18mpg is nice too.

 

[whitedust]

My money is on Fusion buying a non current 600 etek to have contrast with his current Yam 4s no matter which one he keeps probably the Vector. 2000 miles at most & 2 year upgrade favors 2s not 4s & used Doo 600 etek very easy to sell used doo 4s don't sell as a fast as used 4s Yams. Don't know why they just don't. Best way to go for his riding style & trail use in ER. Apex LTX GT way too much sled for ER twistys better for ripping loose in UPMI. 4s are best for riding big miles & not turning over heck Yam 4s just broken in at 2000 miles. At least for me 15+ mpg didn't kick in for me on my 150 Yam Attack until I passed 2000 miles.

 

[rsvectordude]

I won't go back to any smoker myself. Not even if they get 25 mpg! Eventually the inevitable is going to happen...KABOOM! I've had Yamaha 2 strokes that went 12,000 miles without touching the motor and I expect my current 4 stroke to go 40,000 or more. No DI 2 stroke is going to see those mileages without tearing them down. And I'd rather have extra weight over beer can thin chassis and motors you really can't trust..

 

[whitedust]

I won't go back to any smoker myself. Not even if they get 25 mpg! Eventually the inevitable is going to happen...KABOOM! I've had Yamaha 2 strokes that went 12,000 miles without touching the motor and I expect my current 4 stroke to go 40,000 or more. No DI 2 stroke is going to see those mileages without tearing them down. And I'd rather have extra weight over beer can thin chassis and motors you really can't trust..

I agree............Sometimes you don't know what you had until it's gone but Fusion only puts on 500 to 1000 miles a season way overkill for 4s. 4s you keep 2s you turn over & Fusion always turns over sleds within 2-3 years with very low miles. Doo 600 etek very different feel than Vector or Apex LTX & doo fit an finish just not on par with yam but good just not as good as Yam. No oil changes favor 2s. Less than 1000 miles & an oil a change does not make sense money wise. Not sure if a good idea to leave old oil in 4s for 2-3 years until you hit 3000 to 3500 miles as I change mine every year. Anybody leave oil in 4s for 3 seasons & low miles?

 

[Banks93]

I actually have thought long and hard about a Nytro. I've looked at them closely at least 5 times, but never have ridden one. My only major complaints:
1.) Band-aid of a windshield that needs to be upgraded to at least a mid-height, if not full height windshield. Offers zero wind protection and I've heard they are cold. Sled doesn't look as nice with the full size windshield - I've seen them.
2.) Very poor resale due to initial problems and perceptions associated with those 1st few years. Low market demand - very few people want these sleds, so when you go to sell them , you are selling into a limited prospective customer base. Makes it harder to move.

But I love the motor.

Then go with the Apex XTX you won't be sorry and if you can find one for 10,500 you got a great deal and you will smile for a long, long, time. I am going to throw the 2010 skis with extreme snowtrackers on it and it is going to be finished messing around. I won't need another sled for a long time. My buddy who bought the 800 e-tec will be listening to me going tic-toc every time I see him.

If you wanted to go doo then I would go 1200 4-tec because that motor is similar to the Nytro motor for power.

 

[fusion]

Lots of excellent opinions and experiences on this thread. I really appreciate all of them. As Whitey said, low mileage might favor 2S at this point, but I am very impressed with 4S performance and never having to worry about the motor. Plus resale has to factor in with regard to resale. This is a big point in favor of 4S.

At this time I'm leaning toward letting the Vector go, but that will depend on who offers what for either, when it comes time to sell. I do LOVE the power of the Apex. When you run the Apex for awhile and get back on the Vector you can really tell the difference. When you run the Vector for awhile and forget about the Apex, Vector seems fine - for trail riding. Long track is smooth over the bumps and both the kid and woman like the Apex better - go figure.

The opinions and arguments are so good I get swayed in either direction depending on the post I read. If the deal was right, I could very well see myself on a 2011 Apex, with having to learn how to do oil changes. The guy that said he does his own in 40 minutes, now really, you have to be a mechanically inclined person and have done them a few times to achieve that. Dealer charges at least 1 hr. labor.

 

[cooksend]

How about a happy medium between the Yamaha and the Doo E-Tec. Try the 4-Tec. It has almost 2-stroke type handling with all the benefits of 4-stroke. Some good used ones around as well. I see there is one in the classifieds here! Different shock packages are available to suite your needs. GSX = Luxury Ride, MXZ / TNT = Sport Ride and the MXZ X = Most aggressive and most adjustable!

While 4-stroke is not my cup of tea I am no less than impressed evertime I ride a 4-tek. Not based off of power but based off of the complete package! It is one sled that I just don't want to shut off! Makes me want to be a high mileage rider again!

Lots of great opinions here! Just be honest with how you ride and listen to riders not bar stool bandits. Brand loyalty can also fog someones opinion! Also once you get accustomed to a sled you can find lots of different models to work very well for you!!!

 

[1200renegadeskidoo]

I agree............Sometimes you don't know what you had until it's gone but Fusion only puts on 500 to 1000 miles a season way overkill for 4s. 4s you keep 2s you turn over & Fusion always turns over sleds within 2-3 years with very low miles. Doo 600 etek very different feel than Vector or Apex LTX & doo fit an finish just not on par with yam but good just not as good as Yam. No oil changes favor 2s. Less than 1000 miles & an oil a change does not make sense money wise. Not sure if a good idea to leave old oil in 4s for 2-3 years until you hit 3000 to 3500 miles as I change mine every year. Anybody leave oil in 4s for 3 seasons & low miles?[/QUOTE

This is the first season i have an a 4s. I bought a new 1200 4 tec doo the end of december in the UP and would not go back to 2s. I have ridden around 1300 miles (821 on 1200 and rest on the 2s i traded in) i had the dealer do the inital oil change and checkover but the next one i plan on learning how to do it. Since it was changed in late january i dont plan an changing it till the end of next season or might even wait till the following season. I usually like to ride 1500 a year or more that is why i went 4s. Besides this is my 3rd new snowmobile i was tired of turning over 2s. Your case would be more justified in 2s since you trade often.

 

[Banks93]

Lots of excellent opinions and experiences on this thread. I really appreciate all of them. As Whitey said, low mileage might favor 2S at this point, but I am very impressed with 4S performance and never having to worry about the motor. Plus resale has to factor in with regard to resale. This is a big point in favor of 4S.

At this time I'm leaning toward letting the Vector go, but that will depend on who offers what for either, when it comes time to sell. I do LOVE the power of the Apex. When you run the Apex for awhile and get back on the Vector you can really tell the difference. When you run the Vector for awhile and forget about the Apex, Vector seems fine - for trail riding. Long track is smooth over the bumps and both the kid and woman like the Apex better - go figure.

The opinions and arguments are so good I get swayed in either direction depending on the post I read. If the deal was right, I could very well see myself on a 2011 Apex, with having to learn how to do oil changes. The guy that said he does his own in 40 minutes, now really, you have to be a mechanically inclined person and have done them a few times to achieve that. Dealer charges at least 1 hr. labor.

Do a deal with the pre-maintenance in it. I am in the exact same boat as you and that is what I do. Sounds like you need to meet my dealer. : )

 

[whitedust]

Fusion if you find a couple of non current 2011 Apex SEs for $10K be sure to let me know & we will by 2ea. 1 for you & 1 for me. Then we can change oil & filter together your house or mine.lol

 

[snow_monkey]

I will turn to you guys for help when I start the four stroke shopping game. Again it is all personal preference. Two of my neighbors are high mile hard riders and both ditched their nytros after 1 year and went back to two smokes. Does this mean they are bad sleds? I think not.