snow_monkey
New member
Indy it looks like it's time for a new poll two stroke vs. four what would you buy? Can you make us a poll?
Indy it looks like it's time for a new poll two stroke vs. four what would you buy? Can you make us a poll?
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fusion
Guest
Fusion if you find a couple of non current 2011 Apex SEs for $10K be sure to let me know & we will by 2ea. 1 for you & 1 for me. Then we can change oil & filter together your house or mine.lol
I know the place, but I'll wait until July/August timeframe, just like I did on the last one. My guess is, for sure at least 1, probably 2-3 leftovers. Price still a bit high to pull the trigger right now. Thought about buying it now and storing it in the trailer till fall.
Lots of good info/opinions here. My husband sold his 06 fusion this year so will be in the market for a sled next fall. He has all summer to change his mind a thousand times about what the next sled will be. Always had polaris, but definitely open to the other brands. 4 stroke a real option as we keep our sleds 4-5 yrs (maybe more) and get about 1K miles/year. Resale value down the road on a 4S is a bonus. He's pretty mechanical so oil changes not a big deal. A little leary of the 'other' issues I've heard with 4S yammies. Wheels, hyfax, etc. I also know of 2 people who had their chaincase implode within the first two years. But again, I realize not every machine is bulletproof. Keep the info coming!
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fusion
Guest
My problem is, I haven't been buying where I ride. I know for a fact if I rode where I bought, and it made sense to bring it back to that same dealer I could save close to 50% on the oil chg. cost. Price is just too good to pass up for new sleds, and I've shopped all over. Even bought a new sled in MN once. Drove 500 miles from home, to dealer to cottage. Never again will I get that extreme to save a buck.
The guy that said he does his own in 40 minutes, now really, you have to be a mechanically inclined person and have done them a few times to achieve that. Dealer charges at least 1 hr. labor
fusion, I service my Wifes Apex and my Apex every year, I would be glad to show you how to do an Oil change, the hardest part about the job is resetting the clock on the speedo.
Really, buy what you want it's your hard earned money spend it how you want, you have to please yourself before anybody else.
fusion, I service my Wifes Apex and my Apex every year, I would be glad to show you how to do an Oil change, the hardest part about the job is resetting the clock on the speedo.
Really, buy what you want it's your hard earned money spend it how you want, you have to please yourself before anybody else.
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fusion
Guest
Teamblue.....funny you should mention about the digital clock.
I noticed mine was off when I got it back from the dealer last Friday, so now I need help with that too!
Nah - kidding, I just have to get the manual out since I've never done it. Talk about supreme effort - reading the manual.
I noticed mine was off when I got it back from the dealer last Friday, so now I need help with that too!
Nah - kidding, I just have to get the manual out since I've never done it. Talk about supreme effort - reading the manual.
anonomoose
New member
It never fails to amaze me that so many folks do such a short order process when they go buying a sled.
The ONLY way to buy a sled and compare for what YOU do .....is to try them out.
Period.
Once you ride them you will very likely want them all, but there are subtle differences in each one.
Since the changes that each maker makes on each sled year to year makes changing sleds seem sort of foolish, especially at the prices of these machines, why do it if you don't have to?
While I read about the number of 2 stroke sleds that stop working, I have a hard time understanding WHY you would even consider loosing an entire weekend or week because YOUR sled decided to take a dump on the trail.
In this regard ALL the 4 strokes are arm and leg ahead....the reliability is just there...(when was the last time you read about a 4 stroke blowing up on a trail???) You don't HAVE to trade every other year. Change is good, but did yah ever think that unless you are coming from a fairly old sled (clearly you are not) that you might be well...sort of unhappy with what you buy jumping particularly over to a two stroke?
Now I am not saying a two stroke is a bad sled, cause they aren't but things like better suspensions, fit and finish and the way the maker sets the sled up for power can make a much bigger difference.
If you do opt for the 4 stroke....think of it this way....if you drive it for one more year, you just PAID for all the gas and oil you would have spent on the Sales Tax alone for a complete year of free riding!!
Do you clip coupons? This is like someone handing you a coupon for free gas.
All sleds go well these days, and most are fairly reliable. But the two strokes are still a gamble....they are leaning these things way out and this means they don't have a history so you can COUNT on it working for 2 full years, why....because they keep leaning them out...and somewhere it seems they might just have crossed the line for durability.
So do yourself a favor...or anyone else getting ready to do the jump.
Make sure you get to the ride programs and try ALL of them. You will surprise yourself and you might buy something you never even would have otherwise considered...unless you bleed one color, or have a dealer who just sells sleds and doesn't service them...then WHERE you buy the sled comes into play probably more so than any other thing on your list.
So you have a hard time moving sleds in your garage....go buy some sled dollies and do it right. Oil changes and lube jobs can be done at at a good dealer and it will be done right ...you get to do that because you DIDN'T trade every other year.
I have owned at least one of each maker of sleds. Each one did things differently. Look at warranty, look at issues for when a machine does break, can you get parts or are they backordered for the foreseeable future.... who's suspension is the best. Which one has the best riding position, wind protection, which one won't shuck and jive you when something goes wrong, and if you do change shouldn't you really consider a sled that gets $1500 more in trade value?? If you pass on that fact, you just heaped another $1500 on top of the price of the new sled, didn't yah?
Last time I did this, I came away with a CAT Turbo....and tho it is now gone...dang...I miss that sled...it was the best out there...last year. Top to bottom it stood apart and was not even close to all the other stuff on the market.
The ONLY way to buy a sled and compare for what YOU do .....is to try them out.
Period.
Once you ride them you will very likely want them all, but there are subtle differences in each one.
Since the changes that each maker makes on each sled year to year makes changing sleds seem sort of foolish, especially at the prices of these machines, why do it if you don't have to?
While I read about the number of 2 stroke sleds that stop working, I have a hard time understanding WHY you would even consider loosing an entire weekend or week because YOUR sled decided to take a dump on the trail.
In this regard ALL the 4 strokes are arm and leg ahead....the reliability is just there...(when was the last time you read about a 4 stroke blowing up on a trail???) You don't HAVE to trade every other year. Change is good, but did yah ever think that unless you are coming from a fairly old sled (clearly you are not) that you might be well...sort of unhappy with what you buy jumping particularly over to a two stroke?
Now I am not saying a two stroke is a bad sled, cause they aren't but things like better suspensions, fit and finish and the way the maker sets the sled up for power can make a much bigger difference.
If you do opt for the 4 stroke....think of it this way....if you drive it for one more year, you just PAID for all the gas and oil you would have spent on the Sales Tax alone for a complete year of free riding!!
Do you clip coupons? This is like someone handing you a coupon for free gas.
All sleds go well these days, and most are fairly reliable. But the two strokes are still a gamble....they are leaning these things way out and this means they don't have a history so you can COUNT on it working for 2 full years, why....because they keep leaning them out...and somewhere it seems they might just have crossed the line for durability.
So do yourself a favor...or anyone else getting ready to do the jump.
Make sure you get to the ride programs and try ALL of them. You will surprise yourself and you might buy something you never even would have otherwise considered...unless you bleed one color, or have a dealer who just sells sleds and doesn't service them...then WHERE you buy the sled comes into play probably more so than any other thing on your list.
So you have a hard time moving sleds in your garage....go buy some sled dollies and do it right. Oil changes and lube jobs can be done at at a good dealer and it will be done right ...you get to do that because you DIDN'T trade every other year.
I have owned at least one of each maker of sleds. Each one did things differently. Look at warranty, look at issues for when a machine does break, can you get parts or are they backordered for the foreseeable future.... who's suspension is the best. Which one has the best riding position, wind protection, which one won't shuck and jive you when something goes wrong, and if you do change shouldn't you really consider a sled that gets $1500 more in trade value?? If you pass on that fact, you just heaped another $1500 on top of the price of the new sled, didn't yah?
Last time I did this, I came away with a CAT Turbo....and tho it is now gone...dang...I miss that sled...it was the best out there...last year. Top to bottom it stood apart and was not even close to all the other stuff on the market.
Non Smokers, Quiet riders, Heavy loaders.
Here's my 2 cents fellas. There are many non smokers here saying 40,000.miles plus on there motors. If that's the case, then they plan on riding these machines for 9-11 yrs. Who wants to ride the same sled for 11 yrs. New models are constantly comming out with new suspension,handling,trick ideas and graphics.I personally like to turn my sleds every 4-5 yrs. for best resale. And at that time I'm ready for something new. I feel my older sled has seen it's better days and I'm ready to sit on something new. And what is easier to sell? 2 or 4?? I think the Yammi workmanship is the best in the industry, but I'd opt for an E-tech.
Here's my 2 cents fellas. There are many non smokers here saying 40,000.miles plus on there motors. If that's the case, then they plan on riding these machines for 9-11 yrs. Who wants to ride the same sled for 11 yrs. New models are constantly comming out with new suspension,handling,trick ideas and graphics.I personally like to turn my sleds every 4-5 yrs. for best resale. And at that time I'm ready for something new. I feel my older sled has seen it's better days and I'm ready to sit on something new. And what is easier to sell? 2 or 4?? I think the Yammi workmanship is the best in the industry, but I'd opt for an E-tech.
1200renegadeskidoo
New member
completely agree with the last post 100%. I have had 2 strokes my whole life until this past december when i made the leap to 4s. I most definitely wanted to take it for a test ride before even considering it and that alone was priceless. It told me everything i needed to know that a salesman couldnt!
snow_monkey
New member
F
fusion
Guest
Excellent point, and pretty much mine. Variety = spice of life. Who wants to ride it first, assuming you have the time to do so, and take all the mystery out of it?
This is my one bad habit (buying sleds) so let me revel in my debauchery.
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I think the chain case imploding is due to not adjusting the chain tension which takes about 30 seconds on Yamaha Apex. The 4s wide power band & engine braking may also put more strain on the chain that is loose too. I check mine about every 700 miles when ripping grades & lakes never has been loose in over 7000 miles of use but may due to the tension checking I do. The Yam wheels & hyfax issues have been no different for me than my doos but I don't ride in marginal conditions. Apex clutch belts are bullet proof only used 2 in 7000+ miles & still on #2 & only cost $65. Fusion is right the Apex is layered so you have to disassembly way down to get to Apex oil filter & Yam specs filter change every 10,000 to 12,000 miles. Just changing oil with out filter is much easier.
kamikaze_bros
Member
This is a great thread! Seems as though I'm not the only one sitting on the fence. I have never been this indecisive in my entire life regarding a purchase. The new sleds are all so flipp'in good. The one thing that really stands out to me is the comment "Gary in Neehah" made, "This may be the last sled I'll ever buy". I've bought at least 9 new sleds in the last 30 years and several almost new as well and I know at least a few of those times I'm sure I had the same thought. This thread has actually changes my view of 4 stroke snowmobiles. The only 4 strokes I've driven have all been the early build 4 cylinder Yamaha's. The power these things have is unbelievable however I really was disappointed with the rest of the package. My.........have things changed since Yamaha started this trend. Up until I read this thread I was pretty sure I knew what sled I was going to be adding to the stable next fall.
Brand loyalty has never been a factor (with the exception of "Rupp" of course) when I've purchased new snowmobiles in the past. However, I am somewhat Dealer loyal and about half the new sleds I've purchased have come from one dealership. Along with my favorite dealership I am fortunate to have 3 other very good dealers within 20 minutes of my house, one for each manufacturer. The proximity of these 4 dealers just compounds my indecisiveness. It would be one thing if my favorite dealer was the only show in town, but he's not and I feel his product line is the least appealing of the 4 manufacturers particularly in the 4 stroke department.
Ultimately, the big question I need to come to grips with is whether I'm going to need to re-stock my supply of Sea-N-Sno for next season.
Brand loyalty has never been a factor (with the exception of "Rupp" of course) when I've purchased new snowmobiles in the past. However, I am somewhat Dealer loyal and about half the new sleds I've purchased have come from one dealership. Along with my favorite dealership I am fortunate to have 3 other very good dealers within 20 minutes of my house, one for each manufacturer. The proximity of these 4 dealers just compounds my indecisiveness. It would be one thing if my favorite dealer was the only show in town, but he's not and I feel his product line is the least appealing of the 4 manufacturers particularly in the 4 stroke department.
Ultimately, the big question I need to come to grips with is whether I'm going to need to re-stock my supply of Sea-N-Sno for next season.
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anonomoose
New member
"My.........have things changed since Yamaha started this trend. "
Correction...Cat was the first newer sled out with 4 strokes...I still have mine! BTW it takes me about 15 minutes to drain oil and put a new filter on....and that includes the oil spilled around the filter.
I just don't believe in running fresh oil thru a dirty filter....not gunna do it!
High winding engines should not have the filter neglected, just because it is hard to get to.
Correction...Cat was the first newer sled out with 4 strokes...I still have mine! BTW it takes me about 15 minutes to drain oil and put a new filter on....and that includes the oil spilled around the filter.
I just don't believe in running fresh oil thru a dirty filter....not gunna do it!
High winding engines should not have the filter neglected, just because it is hard to get to.
kamikaze_bros
Member
Anonomoose,
I Stand Corrected. The funny part about this is that I completely forgot about the 200 miles I put on a red Cat with a 660cc 3 cylinder Isuzu sitting in a ZR chassis, I think it was called a T660. I broke my sled in the middle of the bush about 50 miles from south and east of Hearst, Ontario. The Cat dealer in Hearst let me use (Not Rent) this sled while they replaced my snapped drive axle. When I got on the thing I really wasn't expecting much, but I was surprised how it managed to scoot along.
harvest1121
Well-known member
I do have a Skidoo 800r not an etec. I do really like the 2 stroke but did ride a 2007 yamaha nytro this weekend for about 40 miles. I could not feel a difference in weight until he got it stuck 2 times. The motor had great power and i would not miss it a bit going from mine to to a 4 stroke. I am seriously going to look at a new 4tec or a vector in my future.
I rode a Apex a year or so ago. Just started talking to a guy on the side of the trail and asked him about it.He offered me to take it for a ride. I ride a 05 Renegade 600 and love the sled but the power and sound of that Apex was awesome! Did it ride heavier, not really sure, was on a pretty smooth trail so cannot comment on that or the deep powder handling.
Heres the thing that sticks in my head though: I would will seriously consider the new 1200 Renegade when I buy a new sled next year. The sled weighs somewhere around 525 lbs I beleiev, my 600cc Renegade is 475 lbs. The difference there is maybe a full tank of fuel. I cannot tell the difference in the handling of my sled when it is full or empty so I do not think that is a strong case to aurgue.
And lets be honest besides a percentage of people on here that do boondock either in the UP or out west what is the last time you have actually really buried or got a sled stuck? Granted I did it 2 weeks ago in the northern lower, or I should say my 12 year old did ditch banging and slide up against a stop sign. Buried it really good but after 10 minutes him and I had the sled out w/o a problem. If it was me it would not have happened. Most of us trail ride and play in the depper stuff after a good snow fall. here in lower Mi it has been 2 years since seeing 25 inches or more of fresh powder to play in. Where I ride I simply will not get the sled stuck so again a little weight difference does not matter.
How many people remember the triples of the 90's we were all riding? What the heck did those weigh. 600+? Rode em all day and then the next w/o a problem and they had nowhere near the suspension and handling the new ones do now.
Lifting them up onto a dolly or trailer is not much of a issue either as they have reverse and I run it right into the garage at the cabin, not too worried about the floor.
I have 4700 miles on my 600SDI renegade, changed the belt for the first time. It has been a great sled and will keep being a great sled as I am going to pass it on to my son but I always have a concern at every ride that this could be the time it happens or every time we head across the lake I feel the need to take it easy because I am afraid it is going to come apart.
The 4tech seems a little pricey compared to other 2 strokes out there but the peace of mind would be priceless.
Heres the thing that sticks in my head though: I would will seriously consider the new 1200 Renegade when I buy a new sled next year. The sled weighs somewhere around 525 lbs I beleiev, my 600cc Renegade is 475 lbs. The difference there is maybe a full tank of fuel. I cannot tell the difference in the handling of my sled when it is full or empty so I do not think that is a strong case to aurgue.
And lets be honest besides a percentage of people on here that do boondock either in the UP or out west what is the last time you have actually really buried or got a sled stuck? Granted I did it 2 weeks ago in the northern lower, or I should say my 12 year old did ditch banging and slide up against a stop sign. Buried it really good but after 10 minutes him and I had the sled out w/o a problem. If it was me it would not have happened. Most of us trail ride and play in the depper stuff after a good snow fall. here in lower Mi it has been 2 years since seeing 25 inches or more of fresh powder to play in. Where I ride I simply will not get the sled stuck so again a little weight difference does not matter.
How many people remember the triples of the 90's we were all riding? What the heck did those weigh. 600+? Rode em all day and then the next w/o a problem and they had nowhere near the suspension and handling the new ones do now.
Lifting them up onto a dolly or trailer is not much of a issue either as they have reverse and I run it right into the garage at the cabin, not too worried about the floor.
I have 4700 miles on my 600SDI renegade, changed the belt for the first time. It has been a great sled and will keep being a great sled as I am going to pass it on to my son but I always have a concern at every ride that this could be the time it happens or every time we head across the lake I feel the need to take it easy because I am afraid it is going to come apart.
The 4tech seems a little pricey compared to other 2 strokes out there but the peace of mind would be priceless.
"My.........have things changed since Yamaha started this trend. "
I recall Arctic Cat had a 4 Cycle Wankel Rotary in the early 70's. Maybe one of the Vintage Guys on here could comment.
I've seen machines from the early 60's with 4 cycle Kohlers for engines. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. Back to the Future, Ehh?
I recall Arctic Cat had a 4 Cycle Wankel Rotary in the early 70's. Maybe one of the Vintage Guys on here could comment.
I've seen machines from the early 60's with 4 cycle Kohlers for engines. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. Back to the Future, Ehh?
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