2015 speculation??

[Attak man]

I was just curious if you guys think Yamaha will put the 850cc Crossplane Triple in a snowmobile?? I think ski-doo has hit a home run with their 900 ace....and I would think Yamaha would be wise to build a smaller triple 4 stroke, around 100 HP to cover the lower end of the market...I could see this engine in a cat as well.

If you look at yamaha's engines in other sports (bikes, outboards etc)...the cross plane 850...seems like the logical choice..I believe the 1812cc 4 cylinder (in their water craft) is too big...too heavy..too much for a sled.

I also think yamaha could benefit from bumping the phazer motor to a 600 cc, and adding the anti engine breaking...I think if they did, cat would replace their 570 fanners with this motor.

Also the polaris camp has been really quiet about four strokes...ever since their partnership with KTM was announced a couple years back...they have been silent...when I first read about this...I thought for sure we'd see a KTM four stroke in a polaris sled...I still think we will see an INDY with a new four stroke...I'm not sure the RUSH platform is the right chassis for your typical four stroke buyer...but I could see a four stroke in the NEW indy chassis.

I think things will be very interesting next month.

 

[xcsp]

They, the other manufacturers, need to do something like Attack Man mentions, or more people will go to the 900 ACE (and quite possibly the rumored 1330ACE).

I went with a 900 ACE and have to say the competition has their work cut out, these 900's ride & handle great as well as being great on fuel, smooth & quiet. AND, don't underestimate the 90hp rating!!

 

[Attak man]

I think the 80-100 hp class is going to become the biggest class in the sport...especially if the manu's start building clean, quiet, fuel efficient 4 strokes....this is the average joe...the trail rider..the bread and butter of our sport....this class will be what the 500cc to 600 cc two strokes were 15 years ago.

 

[whitedust]

Negative zero interest in 100 hp 2s or 4s don't care about mpg I'll pay to play. Sure good for families but not hardcore like me...I want performance in any toy, truck or car big hp keeps me out of trouble. Everyone enjoy but not for me no way!

 

[ezra]

I dont see to much call for the 80 to 100 hp sleds not going to happen.
only guys buying a wife/kids ride buy them and then sell them to a ice fishing guy when they get board with them.
I see a slot in the side of the cats 800 piston this yr with the same bottom end as this yrs 600 .
I dont see a turbo on the yammi cat warranty department could not handle all the clams.
I see a grand tacked on to the top of every model

 

[uncle_ed]

I would hope to see more progress in the light 4 stroke segment of the market. There has been a push year in and year out for more horse power and faster sleds but not everyone is into that aspect of snowmobiling. Beginners, families and your average riders need something to satisfy their needs as well and that 80 to 100 hp sled is a good fit. Give me a sled that is as light as any 2-stroke, performs righteously and has 4 stroke reliability and Im sold. There will always be that big hp market like ez and dust refer to but dont forget about the average sledder or we will price ourselves right out of the market with the topshelf sleds.

 

[Attak man]

I would agree with you guys...in that a 90-100 HP sled doesn't really interest me personally...but I think you are wrong...if you think there is no market for it...the average trail joe doesn't need the HP...and the main things they look for are reliability, ease of maintnance, and fuel economy...they don't want to clean power valves...worry about fouling plugs...blowing belts..etc.....and the best motor for that is a 4 stroke...nobody can argue the sucess ski-doo is having with the 900 ace.

What if yamaha bumped the phazer motor into the viper chassis, added anti engine braking, and bump the hp up a bit....an 85 mph sled...that gets 20 plus MPG....that would weigh around 500 lbs dry...I think that would be a great entry level sled...especially if you add power steering, and a heated seat.

 

[xcsp]

I would agree with you guys...in that a 90-100 HP sled doesn't really interest me personally...but I think you are wrong...if you think there is no market for it...the average trail joe doesn't need the HP...and the main things they look for are reliability, ease of maintnance, and fuel economy...they don't want to clean power valves...worry about fouling plugs...blowing belts..etc.....and the best motor for that is a 4 stroke...nobody can argue the sucess ski-doo is having with the 900 ace.

What if yamaha bumped the phazer motor into the viper chassis, added anti engine braking, and bump the hp up a bit....an 85 mph sled...that gets 20 plus MPG....that would weigh around 500 lbs dry...I think that would be a great entry level sled...especially if you add power steering, and a heated seat.

No need to wait, unless one needs it to say "ABC" brand on it, Ski Doo already has what you state as a great sled for the "average joe". For 2015 I'm quite certain you will see an ACE 900 GSX-SE with a heated seat & longer track. Power steering? Not sure at least on the Rev XS/XP chassis that it is needed.

Unfortunatley these aren't really an entry level sled for what they cost.

 

[Attak man]

No need to wait, unless one needs it to say "ABC" brand on it, Ski Doo already has what you state as a great sled for the "average joe". For 2015 I'm quite certain you will see an ACE 900 GSX-SE with a heated seat & longer track. Power steering? Not sure at least on the Rev XS/XP chassis that it is needed.

Unfortunatley these aren't really an entry level sled for what they cost.

True....$10,000 is not a good way to attract new buyers..or new people to the sport...I can see the older trail veterans buying these machines...as speed is not that important as u get older (right whitedust...lol)..they (the retired folks)...are really the only ones who can afford these machines...our sport...unfortunately is getting older and older...we are not drawing the younger people to the sport..it's too expensive...families can't afford it either (think gas, food, lodging...stickers.. etc for a family of 4 ...let alone the cost of 4 new machines)...but that's whole nother argument....our sport...IMO...is slowly dying....less and less families can afford to do it...like us older folks families did back in the 70's..I blame my snowmobiling addiction on my father...who took me riding since I was 3 years old (my mom and sisters went too..on his sno jets, and yamahas)...and he took me to eagle river every year until 1980....we went as a family....I don't see that much anymore....the best family sled IMO..is the three seater bearcat....but it's $13,000 dollars.

 

[Tankjo]

I hope your right, I have a 800 e-tec GSX se if they put that 900 in the se model I"ll probably be getting one. 20 mpg vs 15 mpg over 3000 miles adds up. As long as the 0-60 mph is there. My wife has the 600 e-tec and she gets 20mpg no matter how she drives. Just think gas n go for 20,000 sounds good. Plus I like the Safety key feature for the grandson. I love the e-tec but I guess 100mph doesn"t thrill me anymore,just love seeing smile on grandson"s face more,plus the 3 year old gonna start soon too!

 

[Attak man]

I hope your right, I have a 800 e-tec GSX se if they put that 900 in the se model I"ll probably be getting one. 20 mpg vs 15 mpg over 3000 miles adds up. As long as the 0-60 mph is there. My wife has the 600 e-tec and she gets 20mpg no matter how she drives. Just think gas n go for 20,000 sounds good. Plus I like the Safety key feature for the grandson. I love the e-tec but I guess 100mph doesn"t thrill me anymore,just love seeing smile on grandson"s face more,plus the 3 year old gonna start soon too!

X2...I agree....I like to wick it up and go...but if you really look at your average trail speed....it's probably 35- 55 mph....at least in the wooded..twisty trail....railrode grades, and lakes different story...many areas here..are tight, narrow and wooded...if you have good snappy low end...good corner to corner....0-60mph...I think a good rider could stay with anybody...I have rarely hit 90 mph this year...and not on the trails. Maybe I am getting old...but I would love a heated seat, and power steering on a light weight four stroke...lol

- - - Updated - - -

BTW...I am still wondering if we will see a Pantera from Cat in the xf chassis with the yami triple...and or a Panther with the phazer motor...in XF chassis...I think they go over well....Cat needs an upgrade in their touring models.

 

[whitedust]

No need to wait, unless one needs it to say "ABC" brand on it, Ski Doo already has what you state as a great sled for the "average joe". For 2015 I'm quite certain you will see an ACE 900 GSX-SE with a heated seat & longer track. Power steering? Not sure at least on the Rev XS/XP chassis that it is needed.

Unfortunatley these aren't really an entry level sled for what they cost.

Exactly nothing inexpensive about 900 Ace a well featured sled no way entry level to anyone same thing you have to pay to play just I prefer more hp. I was surprised at price of 900Ace but then thought about it & with all the featuers it can't be sold cheap like $8K not going to happen. The closest you going to get is the Indy 600 maybe a 500 next year just to keep price down. I don't see poo introducing a new 4s they are like Yam with 4s not going to do it not part of their biz plan.

 

[Hoosier]

Entry-level is a used sled now. Makes sense. Sleds cost more but last much longer also. You are better off now with a 3 or 4 year old Poo/Doo/Cat 600 than a new one in 1996, IMO. I think that's why you see US sled sales slipping each year while the registrations are fairly consistent.

 

[MR.HAPPY]

Prices are whats slowly hurting the sport!!!
Too much money for a family to even rent a "cheap" hehe, sled now!!
Need more 100 hp sleds for $8000 that look & ride good!

 

[polarisman_98]

I don't see it happening but I would like to see the $6,999 line get expanded. Like the doo 600 carb or the basic indy 600 cfi. I don't know how so many people can buy $11,000+ sleds. I just keep buying 1-2yr old sleds but some day I would like to buy new, just don't see it happening for myself personally.

 

[m8man]

True....$10,000 is not a good way to attract new buyers..or new people to the sport...I can see the older trail veterans buying these machines...as speed is not that important as u get older (right whitedust...lol)..they (the retired folks)...are really the only ones who can afford these machines...our sport...unfortunately is getting older and older...we are not drawing the younger people to the sport..it's too expensive...families can't afford it either (think gas, food, lodging...stickers.. etc for a family of 4 ...let alone the cost of 4 new machines)...but that's whole nother argument....our sport...IMO...is slowly dying....less and less families can afford to do it...like us older folks families did back in the 70's..I blame my snowmobiling addiction on my father...who took me riding since I was 3 years old (my mom and sisters went too..on his sno jets, and yamahas)...and he took me to eagle river every year until 1980....we went as a family....I don't see that much anymore....the best family sled IMO..is the three seater bearcat....but it's $13,000 dollars.

I think the cost of everything is it. I grew up with a sled, my parents had them and we went every sunday that there was snow and usually with a group of people. the trails were not great but that was 25 yrs ago. we did a bunch of off trail stuff. my parents had good jobs (for the area) and worked hard. I think with the lack of good jobs and expenses going up and real wages not keeping pace, the sport is pricing most out of it. I ended up selling mine as I had two young boys who wanted to go and I couldn't swing 2 more sleds. The perfect fix was a 4 seater side by side. the whole family uses it and I'm only in about 15k when I bought it. I would like to get the boys and me back into it full time but they need to put on a couple of more years.
Heck, some people are trying to find a job let alone a good one. I think the heating costs are getting people too. For those of us who use propane this yr is a bugger.

 

[ezra]

I think if u buy smart the sleds don't cost u that much to own. yeah a big hunk on the fr end but if u buy right take care of the sled and don't hold it to long free to $1000 a yr to own.
U don't have to sno check U don't have to buy your sleds in December .
I buy April shoot for a yr old new sled sell in 3yrs or less. or u buy a low mi current yr in the spring for a song. I usually sell in the fall or mid season.
I usually don't loose more than a few hundred a yr. and some times make a few bucks to use them for a season. always a bunch of guys with a pocket full of cash from the bike they just sold to pay top $ for a sled at the first snow fall

 

[bearrassler]

It sounds like most of you are interested in new 4-stroke sleds, I saw in a magazine (I think Supertrax) that last year 4-strokes were less than 25% of the market and had even lost a couple of percent the last few years. Maybe with the 900 Ace and the Yamicats they may pick up a few points of market share but the bulk is still the 2 stroke market. As for inexpensive sleds, my brother won a Ski Doo MXZ 600 Sport at Hayday's and it is a great sled that lists at 6995 plus freight, the Indy 600 is a little higher but still a great value and last spring there was some great deals on the Indy. That is not where the bulk of the market is though, complain about the 12,000 or 13,000 sleds but that is where it is at. The manuacturers have tried the lower priced sleds many times and then exit it because they don't sell that great. I look for the bulk of the new models to be in the 136 to 144 crossover or the mountain segments because that is where the bulk of the sales are.

 

[whitedust]

It sounds like most of you are interested in new 4-stroke sleds, I saw in a magazine (I think Supertrax) that last year 4-strokes were less than 25% of the market and had even lost a couple of percent the last few years. Maybe with the 900 Ace and the Yamicats they may pick up a few points of market share but the bulk is still the 2 stroke market. As for inexpensive sleds, my brother won a Ski Doo MXZ 600 Sport at Hayday's and it is a great sled that lists at 6995 plus freight, the Indy 600 is a little higher but still a great value and last spring there was some great deals on the Indy. That is not where the bulk of the market is though, complain about the 12,000 or 13,000 sleds but that is where it is at. The manuacturers have tried the lower priced sleds many times and then exit it because they don't sell that great. I look for the bulk of the new models to be in the 136 to 144 crossover or the mountain segments because that is where the bulk of the sales are.

Poo marketing says 4s on decline......I don't think so..... lots of 4s being sold but I would not want to sit in front of Scott Wine after all AR&D bucks were spent on the 2s Indy & say "you know what Scott we need a new 4s line of sleds". Not going to happen IMO.

 

[xcsp]

As for inexpensive sleds, my brother won a Ski Doo MXZ 600 Sport at Hayday's and it is a great sled that lists at 6995 plus freight, the Indy 600 is a little higher but still a great value and last spring there was some great deals on the Indy.

Yes, the 600 Sport & Indy 600 are great sleds, and if the 900 ACE hadn't come out, I probably would be riding the Indy.

A friend of mine has a new 600 Sport and after riding it and my ACE, I sure do like the torque, smoothness, and lack of 2-stroke smell of the ACE.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a replacement for the 600 Sport being a lower cost 900 ACE model, if that would be possible?

Only a month or so away and we'll see what WILL come for '15.