2017 Sneak Peek Impressions?

[1fujifilm]

WD right on the money with last post. My thoughts exactly. That horsepower serves no GENERAL purpose other than bragging rights which again, serves no purpose.
Not sure what they are thinking here except big margin $$'s at those prices!

Hello Group,
I am moving from a 600 T-tec to the 850 this year. I want to ride something that doesn't seem like it is working as hard by revving into the 8,000 RPM range just to get to 75 MPH in 5 inches of fluff on the trail (riding trail 3 from Bruce's Crossing to Houghton can be a devil with that LES deepening and wanting to make the trip quickly) . The 850 should aid in attaining those goals by revving lower and creating lower levels of NVH while accelerating quicker than the 600.
To me I am gaining this benefit for $1,400 AND getting the newest chassis, clutch, looks and hottest motor (good value).
Oh yeah, when you see that 850 coming I will also stroke my ego a bit since the first year sound like a limited build year.

Bear

 

[whitedust]

Hello Group,
I am moving from a 600 T-tec to the 850 this year. I want to ride something that doesn't seem like it is working as hard by revving into the 8,000 RPM range just to get to 75 MPH in 5 inches of fluff on the trail (riding trail 3 from Bruce's Crossing to Houghton can be a devil with that LES deepening and wanting to make the trip quickly) . The 850 should aid in attaining those goals by revving lower and creating lower levels of NVH while accelerating quicker than the 600.
To me I am gaining this benefit for $1,400 AND getting the newest chassis, clutch, looks and hottest motor (good value).
Oh yeah, when you see that 850 coming I will also stroke my ego a bit since the first year sound like a limited build year.

Bear

The 850 will do that but so will any 150hp sled. Sure hope we have that kind of condition a lot next year but difficult to see at 75mph in all that LES & snowdust.

 

[snobuilder]

850 is a weird number for a sled motor....and why didn't they just call it an 800?....they called there 599 a 500 didn't they?

Originally Posted by momoney2123 Guys have big egos, so it appears Yamaha is after them. They had to do something to make a big splash. If the numbers

I seen from 2015 are accurate Yamaha held a 3% market share. Would be tuff to go from any other angle especially from a 4 stroke. I think it works and they sell a good amount of sidewinders.

Big splash?....as if Yamaha Motors rushed into this engines development?.....Been in the works for years. The YXZ sxs will be the next recipient from my POV.

Number 1 on the list of the things a snowmobiler never said is;....."this things got too much HORSEPOWER"....leave it to a Doo guy to say it!....LOL

 

[1fujifilm]

The 850 will do that but so will any 150hp sled. Sure hope we have that kind of condition a lot next year but difficult to see at 75mph in all that LES & snowdust.

Others dont't have lightweight, new chassis or best clutching.
I ride a Renegade midweek, 137 with 1.25 track.

 

[journeyman]

I and 3 others in my group are trading in perfectly good 800etecs 2015 and 2016s. If they didnt come with the G4 850 i was keeping my 800 another year and so were they. Why not has been 100% trouble free for 3400 miles and still has 2 year warranty left.

To me doo's path is crystal clear for MY2018. Bring the 850 into the XRS, Freeride, and 174 packages.

I think they will also bring a 600 class new 2 stroke.

4 strokes stay the same, until maybe MY2019 if they decide to compete in the hyper market. They doo have a super charger and turbo sled thats been being tested for years

No idea tho what yamaha's path is. if they bring some lower hp sleds to compete with ace or just try and corner the hyper sled market

Are you talking about the 1200 turbo proto (Mach)??

One of the guys on Dootalk said they had one but it has been more or less scrapped. Was slated for around 180HP but when Yamaha released the SW it was DQ'd.

The Yamaha is way more than just slapping a turbo on an existing motor, there was a bunch of internal beefing and some serious engineering to totally eliminate turbo lag and also to keep the temps in check.

So if that is true about the 1200 turbo prototype they might have to go back to the drawing board. The word is the SW ecu can be tweeked and 240-250 HP is not going to be a problem on pump fuel. You know there will be guys doing that. I have also heard from one of the shops that does a bunch of aftermarket mods and turbos that you can't run much boost to the 1200 without doing engine work to it. He has already seen a few guys scatter the motor from too much boost.

 

[snobuilder]

I also hold back on Pics due to the old-school process to post them.
I understand John does this site out of the kindness of his heart (and a few donations) but I would be willing to donate a little more ($20) to fund a project to update the website to allow pics to be processed in an easier fashion (think of Craigslist or other well working pic related sites), I believe others would too. John could even wait for donations to come in prior to making the updates in order to assure funding came in before he outlaid any money.

I do thank John for the site and respect what he has built. Just a suggestion.

Bear

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The Cat philosophy of "if u want to see one they are on the showroom floor" is one that I use. I go to Ken's Sports in Little Chute, WI and see all the past four years of models each winter (this year I saw new 2016, 2015, 2014, and 2013 models). It's almost like a museum.
To be sort of fair, they have holdover Kawasaki's too (Jet Ski's and Bikes).

Bear

I am in for $20........and yes that pile of Cats never seems to shrink or even change....LOL...I see they slashed them again on the website.

 

[ezra]

I am in for $20........and yes that pile of Cats never seems to shrink or even change....LOL...I see they slashed them again on the website.

why would they not buy them way better margins out of salvage than current inventory.

 

[snobuilder]

why would they not buy them way better margins out of salvage than current inventory.

It could be that they are doing that. Maybe if I was more of a cat guy I would see that they have moved in new stock. They have a big inventory on the floor alone. If there internet stock is an indicator,... they get in leftovers from Polaris.
I just had to chuckle when I read 1fujifilms post because It appeared that way to me as well.

 

[momoney2123]

850 is a weird number for a sled motor....and why didn't they just call it an 800?....they called there 599 a 500 didn't they?



Big splash?....as if Yamaha Motors rushed into this engines development?.....Been in the works for years. The YXZ sxs will be the next recipient from my POV.

Number 1 on the list of the things a snowmobiler never said is;....."this things got too much HORSEPOWER"....leave it to a Doo guy to say it!....LOL

Too much horsepower? Never. Thats like saying i have too much money , here is some back

 

[srt20]

Too much horsepower? Never. Thats like saying i have too much money , here is some back

Feel the Bern......

 

[momoney2123]

Are you talking about the 1200 turbo proto (Mach)??

One of the guys on Dootalk said they had one but it has been more or less scrapped. Was slated for around 180HP but when Yamaha released the SW it was DQ'd.

The Yamaha is way more than just slapping a turbo on an existing motor, there was a bunch of internal beefing and some serious engineering to totally eliminate turbo lag and also to keep the temps in check.

So if that is true about the 1200 turbo prototype they might have to go back to the drawing board. The word is the SW ecu can be tweeked and 240-250 HP is not going to be a problem on pump fuel. You know there will be guys doing that. I have also heard from one of the shops that does a bunch of aftermarket mods and turbos that you can't run much boost to the 1200 without doing engine work to it. He has already seen a few guys scatter the motor from too much boost.

All i have to say is that internet rumor is false. You think doo was sitting on a turbo sled and simply said..screw it OMG 204 HP, lets scrap this whole project and make it public...comon. not that difficult if they were designing for 180 to get a few more hp haha. My buddy has ran 350+hp on a stock 1200 since 09. That engine can take the heat as it sits. Its way overbuilt. Infact its super de-tuned from its orginal usage from rotax. But the new yamaha has many features that would make rotax simply not be able to just take a 1200, decompress a little and put a turbo on it. It would need to be a little morr creative. If they havent already you kno rotax will be tearing into a sidewinder just as cat and poo will be tearing into the 850.

They have also had a known 1000 twin running around for awhile and numerous other project engines. Ya really just never kno what they end up bringing to market.

 

[1fujifilm]

It could be that they are doing that. Maybe if I was more of a cat guy I would see that they have moved in new stock. They have a big inventory on the floor alone. If there internet stock is an indicator,... they get in leftovers from Polaris.
I just had to chuckle when I read 1fujifilms post because It appeared that way to me as well.

They do get leftovers from Polaris and Arctic-Cat, sometimes because other Dealers go out of business or there are just too many machines.
One complaint I have heard from Dealers is Cat allowed too many Dealers per protected area; for instance in the Green Bay, WI "area" I believe there are 5 Dealers. Compare that to Ski-Doo with 2-3 depending on how you look at it.
One might say Cat created some of the over-supply problem themselves by allowing too many Dealers.

Bear

 

[whitedust]

AC & Yamaha both scarce in Vilas more so Yamaha which could use a Pat's or M&M South.

 

[srt20]

AC & Yamaha both scarce in Vilas more so Yamaha which could use a Pat's or M&M South.

Isn't trackside a Yamaha dealer? I thought they were.

 

[groomerdriver]

Isn't trackside a Yamaha dealer? I thought they were.

And there's a Yamaha dealer in Minocqua. Not to mention good dealers in Tomahawk and Antigo. Yea.....scarce. SMH......

Should have added that there's good Cat dealers in Tomahawk and Antigo as well......but they are scarce right?

 

[old abe]

Doo went with the Gen 4 850 due to the what the market wants.The 800 2 stroke class is the largest, and most competitive market for all sleds. The Gen 4 is a new chassis, and the 850 a new engine. It also looks as if Doo sells more 4 strokes than all their competition combined, so no new 4 stroke of any kind, at this time? Only time will tell.

 

[1fujifilm]

They do get leftovers from Polaris and Arctic-Cat, sometimes because other Dealers go out of business or there are just too many machines.
One complaint I have heard from Dealers is Cat allowed too many Dealers per protected area; for instance in the Green Bay, WI "area" I believe there are 5 Dealers. Compare that to Ski-Doo with 2-3 depending on how you look at it.
One might say Cat created some of the over-supply problem themselves by allowing too many Dealers.

Bear

I just remembered something that is hilarious, "even Gander Mountain in Green Bay was selling Arctic-Cat ATV's". That is too much and was a dumb move on A/C's part. The local Green Bay Dealer's must have been beside themselves. Anyway, that came to an end and we move on.

Bear

 

[snobuilder]

Was faced with being in Iron Rvr MI needing a Cat belt....local non AC shops/parts houses had none.... ended up in Eagle Rvr as the closest dealership in the direction we needed to be at the end of the day.

 

[whitedust]

Isn't trackside a Yamaha dealer? I thought they were.

No Trackside phased out Yamaha last Fall. Nothing in Vilas for Yamaha. Cat in ER forgot at Boat Sport.... Rhinelander for sure for cat too.

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Was faced with being in Iron Rvr MI needing a Cat belt....local non AC shops/parts houses had none.... ended up in Eagle Rvr as the closest dealership in the direction we needed to be at the end of the day.

Try Northland Service in IR off trail 2... Chris will get for you if he can.

 

[groomerdriver]

The 800 2 stroke class is the largest, and most competitive market for all sleds.

Really? Would have thought it's the 600cc 2S market.