indy_500
Well-known member
I change it whenever I take off the track which is like 3 times a year for stupid reasons LOL
ATF fluid in the chain case ??
- Thread starter skeeetime
- Start date
I change it whenever I take off the track which is like 3 times a year for stupid reasons LOL
polarisrider1
New member
Something I did not read in this thread relates to the chemical capabilities of ATF versus gear oil. ATF will desolve broken down oils where as gear oil will not. I've change oil that is really been black, used the ATF and with the next change it's clean as can be. In fact it's still red. It's an old trick for vehicle engine oil that hasn't been changed regularly. Put a quart in the crankcase, run it for 500 miles, drain and change. You'll be surprised at how it cleans things up.
This is another "why won't this die" myth.
Years ago (60's back) when most everybody thought they just had to have a heavy oil, like a 20w-50 or 10w-40 or 30 wt oil you saw a lot of sludging from the polymers used to create the high viscosities. The engines would sludge up and sometimes sticking lifters and valves became an issue. It was a old mechanic cheap fix to put ATF in the oil to free everything up, a last ditch effort to save it. What was actually happening was that the ATF was a much thinner fluid and would break the sludge down to wash it out. But we don't have engines using that heavy of an oil anymore. The correct viscosity oil is as thin if not thinner than any ATF.
Most ATF's have the same viscosity as that of a 20 oil and a 80 gear lube. (They use difference scales to measure them)
ATF does not have more cleaning agents in the formulation, it has less. Wanna destroy an engine, fill it with ATF and take it for a ride.
ATF is measured in cSt (centiStokes)
Typical Technical Properties – AMSOIL Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100˚C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40˚C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38.8
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 163
Flash Point, ˚C (˚F) (ASTM D-92) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .228 (442)
Pour Point, ˚C (˚F) (ASTM D-97) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .-53 (-63)
FZG Load Stage Pass (ASTM D-5182) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
Four-Ball Wear Test, Scar in mm; 40 kg, 75˚C, 1200 rpm, 1hr (ASTM D-4172B) . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . 0.40
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40˚C, cP (ASTM D-2983) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9500
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polarisrider1
New member
What is the reasoning for using anything but Chaincase oil? Just don't get the guys who try to be scientists???? Enlighten me.
anonomoose
New member
These aren't piston rings and hi tech engines here...it's a chain case with a couple bearings rollin around and a chain.
Not high pressure, High temperature, High friction....situation.
Run peanut oil in there if you want to. If you have a diamond drive...I would use the recommended stuff. Otherwise, whatcha got on the shelf will do fine. Thinner the better If it leaks out...you have a problem that needs fix'n...no matter what you put in there.
Drain it once a year to get any moisture that worked into the box out and load with clean fresh stuff...as long as it is a lubricant it will work just fine.
Not high pressure, High temperature, High friction....situation.
Run peanut oil in there if you want to. If you have a diamond drive...I would use the recommended stuff. Otherwise, whatcha got on the shelf will do fine. Thinner the better If it leaks out...you have a problem that needs fix'n...no matter what you put in there.
Drain it once a year to get any moisture that worked into the box out and load with clean fresh stuff...as long as it is a lubricant it will work just fine.
polarisrider1
New member
Wouldn't anti foaming be a plus?
anonomoose
New member
While I wouldn't think that the chain would travel fast enough to foam....so what if it did? Scant lube is all that is necessary as it sticks to the parts even if it slings off.
polarisrider1
New member
On a Poo you also have a bearing and a seal coming into the chain case. Rubber seals react differently with different oils. My brother in law put regular 30 weight motor oil in has chaincase and it foamed and built preasure enough to blow out the cover seal. He was running around 80plus most the day up in Canada and seal went 60 miles from town. We were on a seven day backpack trip. We used his toothpaste as a seal and his extra qt. Of two stroke to get us into Hearst. Dealer laughed and said, "Well it got ya outta da bush ay!". Sled was an 02 xcsp 800 with a reusable rubber gasket and it puffed up, so the rubber did have a reacting to the oil he used.
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winter_time
New member
Wayne all that you are lubing on a standard chain case is the chain because there is two sealed bearings. ATF will get into the rollers on the chain easier than the gear case lube which in turn causes the chain to be better lubed. The oil seals on the case are to keep the oil in and the bearing uses no lube.
polarisrider1
New member
I will need an 02 xcsp schematic to confirm. I have never had to change out a chaincase side bearing or seal but have done many speedo side bearings. Poo had sealed both sides and sealed one side bearings in the past. My 01 XCSP was sealed one side. My 05 switchback was sealed both sides.
Unfricken believable how some of you people try try to reengineer the chain case fluid/oil capabilities to possibly save a few bucks and risk costing a thousand. Engineers designed chain cases and oil compatabilities for a reason. For the cost of a quart of mfg recommended chain case oil???? ***?? W.T.F.?
anonomoose
New member
That isn't how this works WJ...
Most guys have a quart or two of tranny fluid on the shelf. You have to go to the sled store and buy a container of the OEM stuff recommended which has been marked up in price by the fluid maker, then the sled maker for putting their name on the stuff, and then the dealer gets to double the price and stock it.
Never mind you have to spend the money and time to drive to the dealership to get it.
Meanwhile the so called "engineering" you refer to is scant...as they don't call the oil company and have one "designed" specifically for this machine, but pull a chart, look at the specs and decide what is already available that will work well.
This is America, and we are led to believe that ONLY one product will work in such applications when in truth probably every product made will work. Worst case scenario, you find some special rubber gasket that decides to implode when in contact with anything other than the intended lube and you have to replace the gasket...or if you ignore it, a chain and bearing over time.
This isn't heart surgery here....it is a bearing and chain rolling around and needing a bit of friction fighting.
So keep it all in perspective. It is NOT worth getting your shorts in a bind over! btw, welcome to the board!
Most guys have a quart or two of tranny fluid on the shelf. You have to go to the sled store and buy a container of the OEM stuff recommended which has been marked up in price by the fluid maker, then the sled maker for putting their name on the stuff, and then the dealer gets to double the price and stock it.
Never mind you have to spend the money and time to drive to the dealership to get it.
Meanwhile the so called "engineering" you refer to is scant...as they don't call the oil company and have one "designed" specifically for this machine, but pull a chart, look at the specs and decide what is already available that will work well.
This is America, and we are led to believe that ONLY one product will work in such applications when in truth probably every product made will work. Worst case scenario, you find some special rubber gasket that decides to implode when in contact with anything other than the intended lube and you have to replace the gasket...or if you ignore it, a chain and bearing over time.
This isn't heart surgery here....it is a bearing and chain rolling around and needing a bit of friction fighting.
So keep it all in perspective. It is NOT worth getting your shorts in a bind over! btw, welcome to the board!
polarisrider1
New member
You would think you were useing sea and snow ATF?? Panties bunching? Lol.
Some of us run new Iron that is under warrenty and we don't need a legal battle over having the wrong color oil in it if it decides to implode. How much savings are we talking here?
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polarisrider1
New member
Agree, and you use only about 11-12 oz. Anyways. Amsoil will deliver to the house in premeasured bottles.
Just like what oil is better, here we are again wasting time discussing lubricants. Here is my take (as a dealer) so agree or disagree, I don't care.
1st) Even though the chaincase bearings are sealed, no seal is perfect and undoubtably some oil will leak into & eventually thru the bearing. It was posted above about how many LH track drive bearings are replaced but never the RH side. Now why would that be except for the oil? Both bearings are the same diameter, spin at the same RPM with the same side load on them and operate with exactly the same exposure to wet conditions. And for the record, I have seen upper chain case bearings get noisy & LH jack shaft (upper shaft) bearings fail (one still under warranty) even with a grease fitting factory installed. So all bearing fail but I believe we can all agree that the most common failure is the LH lower.
2nd) Each manufacturer has their own chain lube. I assume when we are dealing with a chain case, any of the 4 brands will work just fine. (I would not use anything other than ACT fluid in an ACT drive). Cat even has a synthetic chain lube but the factory fill is non synthetic. This is true even on the 2013 800 and turbos. So if they feel it will work OK with over 170 HP (remember, they have a reputation & warranty to cover), I am OK with it too.
3rd) My only concern with running one of the 3 other OEM lubes would be if their oil has some type of additive that may not be compatible with the seals or O-rings. And yes, O-rings are not all the same. Different rubber compounds react to different chemicals.
4th) You decide when to change your chain oil. Remember, there will be wear on the chain & sprockets regardless of what lube you run. There is no filter & I assume that with the aggitation
in the case, some particals will become suspended. I believe particals suspended in oil will obviously increase wear. My recommendation is to service the sled in the spring, & change the chain lube annually at that time. If you have an issue it will be discovered promptly & if there is any moisture it will be cleaned out & not sit all summer. Also, grease the chassis in the spring & drive moisture out of the pivot points at the same time.
5th) Again we hear the bitch about cost. Given the fact that vitually no dealer can make list price on a machine and most likely the State makes more money on sales tax than the dealer makes profit, how can you be bitter if the dealer wants to make money somewhere? Anyone who believes that a dealer is getting rich - especially this year & last is just dreaming. If you want to dream, contact me & live the dream.
Jim
1st) Even though the chaincase bearings are sealed, no seal is perfect and undoubtably some oil will leak into & eventually thru the bearing. It was posted above about how many LH track drive bearings are replaced but never the RH side. Now why would that be except for the oil? Both bearings are the same diameter, spin at the same RPM with the same side load on them and operate with exactly the same exposure to wet conditions. And for the record, I have seen upper chain case bearings get noisy & LH jack shaft (upper shaft) bearings fail (one still under warranty) even with a grease fitting factory installed. So all bearing fail but I believe we can all agree that the most common failure is the LH lower.
2nd) Each manufacturer has their own chain lube. I assume when we are dealing with a chain case, any of the 4 brands will work just fine. (I would not use anything other than ACT fluid in an ACT drive). Cat even has a synthetic chain lube but the factory fill is non synthetic. This is true even on the 2013 800 and turbos. So if they feel it will work OK with over 170 HP (remember, they have a reputation & warranty to cover), I am OK with it too.
3rd) My only concern with running one of the 3 other OEM lubes would be if their oil has some type of additive that may not be compatible with the seals or O-rings. And yes, O-rings are not all the same. Different rubber compounds react to different chemicals.
4th) You decide when to change your chain oil. Remember, there will be wear on the chain & sprockets regardless of what lube you run. There is no filter & I assume that with the aggitation
in the case, some particals will become suspended. I believe particals suspended in oil will obviously increase wear. My recommendation is to service the sled in the spring, & change the chain lube annually at that time. If you have an issue it will be discovered promptly & if there is any moisture it will be cleaned out & not sit all summer. Also, grease the chassis in the spring & drive moisture out of the pivot points at the same time.
5th) Again we hear the bitch about cost. Given the fact that vitually no dealer can make list price on a machine and most likely the State makes more money on sales tax than the dealer makes profit, how can you be bitter if the dealer wants to make money somewhere? Anyone who believes that a dealer is getting rich - especially this year & last is just dreaming. If you want to dream, contact me & live the dream.
Jim
D.B. Cooper
Member
^^^^ Pretty much correct
I have the official YAMAHA "RACE MANUAL here for the SRX's from the late 70's and they recommend Trans fluid.
I use the Genuine POLARIS Synthetic stuff most of the time in my own sled.
But I keep getting these guys stopping over the night before we leave on our trip and they want their sleds serviced, so they get the trans fluid, and we never had a problem with premature bearing/chain failures on any of their sleds.
All of this will be a non issue after POLARIS gets the belt drive sorted out (LOL) and chain cases will be a thing of the past.
In the meantime, as long as you're keeping some kinda oil in the case and you're changing it once a season, you're good to go.
But since there's no snow to ride, it doesn't much matter?