Ban the Can

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lenny

Guest
we stayed at the black bear Inn in Wakefield or Bessmer years ago and my buddy on a 2003 RX1 had the most insane can on his sled. I cannot even describe what it sounded like,,even at idle. He pulled it off the trailer and before he parked it the owner came running out and was very concerned and told him he couldn't have that here. He did ride it all weekend there but keep it as low as possible and owner was okay but I'll never forget the look on his face when he came running out.

Stationary is the test you guys are referring to and the cans in question will pass that test. WOT is another in 2nd gear for ORV's is another so not sure how we would apply that to sleds but probably just WOT. the SLP's are a tad more DB at WOT but if rider is respectful no one would never complain. In fact. I had a bud who had a slp on his sled and I never knew it till it was cracked and he was sending it in for repair.

We're gonna be splittin hairs here now people if we try an pin a guy down for an after market can that does not pass a WOT test. With my lodging rental I will not check nor ask but if I hear a loud can I will question. It's always been a respect issue kinda like the honor system. It may come down to a crack down by DNR and if they see a after market can they may test and that is how the law works so lets let it play itself out. I'm gonna contact SLP and ask if they have figures for the can I want and if it's excessive I will not buy it,,,simple as that. From reading the DNR test is appears the right angle test behind sled at WOT is 99db. Very interesting no doubt!
 
garyl62

garyl62

Active member
united said:
Right. I also just found out there are other SAE tests.

All new snowmobiles are manufactured to pass two intense sound test procedures. They are certified by a third-party, internationally-recognized testing agency which administers the two rigid sound tests. First is the SAE J-1161, which is a steady-speed pass-by test, and the second is the SAE J-192, which tests the vehicle in the most extreme operation condition; wide-open throttle acceleration.

Most of the Can Manufacturers claim to pass SAE J-2567 stationary sound test, which does not sound quite the same as the above two tests.

I am wondering how many people believe they have a legal can based on the Can Manufacturer's literature for a lower RPM test (SAE J-2567), when in actual conditions they are really way over the legal allowable 88 db?
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Can you post a link to these procedures? When I checked my sound level I did the drive by at a steady speed. I did it before the snow cover was in place so I did it on asphalt which in my opinion that would give me a louder reading than when there is snowcover to absorb some of the sound. There was a criteria spelled out about how many rpm's to run, how far away from the sled, and how high off the ground to hold the device to take the reading. At that time the can on my sled was 3 years old and still came in bouncing between 84-85. With the increase in smart phones now there is little reason for someone not to be able to do this test themselves. I downloaded a free app a year ago to check HVAC noise in buildings at work and it gives the same reading as some of the high priced instruments the tech's bring into our buildings.
 
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lenny

Guest
garyl62 said:
Can you post a link to these procedures? When I checked my sound level I did the drive by at a steady speed. I did it before the snow cover was in place so I did it on asphalt which in my opinion that would give me a louder reading than when there is snowcover to absorb some of the sound. There was a criteria spelled out about how many rpm's to run, how far away from the sled, and how high off the ground to hold the device to take the reading. At that time the can on my sled was 3 years old and still came in bouncing between 84-85. With the increase in smart phones now there is little reason for someone not to be able to do this test themselves. I downloaded a free app a year ago to check HVAC noise in buildings at work and it gives the same reading as some of the high priced instruments the tech's bring into our buildings.
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http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fire/spark_arrester_guides/_assets/OHV209-308Blue.pdf
 
S

sweeperguy

Active member
ezra said:
sooo u were there ? could be a million reason always is and the owners always have more than 1 reason for getting sick of all the sleds running through there land.
from what I understand. from what I understand this guys land is some what close to the trail. well I for 1 would get sick of all the traffic if it was all 4strokes with extra mufflers .
any one with a trail on there land with in 1/4 of a mi from there home I am shocked the stay open more than a season or 2
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No i wasn't there, but there is much more of a chance of it being loud exhaust than carbide noise. Granted it could be any of a number of things, But the most likely cause is loud exhaust. The press release did say it was on account of excessively loud machines. Pretty sure its loud exhaust. I know the tone of carbides on pavement can be like fingernails on a chalkboard, but this guy is closing trail across his property. So it could end up with a re-route on pavement in front of his property. So if carbide noise is the issue, it could backfire on him by closing the trail. Excessive noise complaint is going to be loud exhaust in most cases, I'm sure there may be exceptions. I'm pretty sure you could have found more controversial posts by me, if you were just looking to call me out.
 
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snobuilder

Well-known member
POLARISDAN said:
yup i agree tom..and let me share this story as i was going to start a can thread when i got back..

sitting on vermillion the other night..late 2-3 ish..just sitting there enjoying the solitude and quiet of the night..i could hear them miles away..they finally got near and passed going into tower..then i had to listen to them for another 10 minutes..they had to be miles away by then..i never really had an opinion on this issue till that night..but omg..i cant imagine a land owner wanting to listen to these things all night long, or all day for that matter..cmon people..put yourselves in these landowner shoes..if u got loud cans..get fkn rid of them..
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you had me going there....it was a warm summer evening with a 9 mph breeze coming off the highway....them Harleys were speakin to me....rollin thunder ...hear them coming and then going the other way for 10 minutes....then you ruined the moment with the rediculas can comment....come on man...hacked harleys are music in the northwoods air for them that live there...aina?

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garyl62 said:
Can you post a link to these procedures? When I checked my sound level I did the drive by at a steady speed. I did it before the snow cover was in place so I did it on asphalt which in my opinion that would give me a louder reading than when there is snowcover to absorb some of the sound. There was a criteria spelled out about how many rpm's to run, how far away from the sled, and how high off the ground to hold the device to take the reading. At that time the can on my sled was 3 years old and still came in bouncing between 84-85. With the increase in smart phones now there is little reason for someone not to be able to do this test themselves. I downloaded a free app a year ago to check HVAC noise in buildings at work and it gives the same reading as some of the high priced instruments the tech's bring into our buildings.
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Just did a db test on my CAPS LOCK....came in way below yelling at the inflection level...it's cool...
 
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united

Active member
SAE Society of Automotive Engineers charges to download specs. Run across it a lot for work. Usually you can find the specs. buried somewhere deep in the internet. Just saying if you are going of of Can Manufacturer's literature you may have been mislead and a lot of us upstanding JohnDeers might be part of the problem and not even be aware. Just type in the above listed specs. in google and see what comes back.

QUOTE=garyl62;399263]Can you post a link to these procedures? When I checked my sound level I did the drive by at a steady speed. I did it before the snow cover was in place so I did it on asphalt which in my opinion that would give me a louder reading than when there is snowcover to absorb some of the sound. There was a criteria spelled out about how many rpm's to run, how far away from the sled, and how high off the ground to hold the device to take the reading. At that time the can on my sled was 3 years old and still came in bouncing between 84-85. With the increase in smart phones now there is little reason for someone not to be able to do this test themselves. I downloaded a free app a year ago to check HVAC noise in buildings at work and it gives the same reading as some of the high priced instruments the tech's bring into our buildings.[/QUOTE]
 
E

elm103

New member
I always make sure that I include that this is just my opinion.Owned my place for 8 years now, am 61 years and my mom lives in Arizona.
 
C

chicagosledder

New member
lenny said:
problem is trail has been closed because of excessive noise and it is an issue for many people. One would think guys with loud sleds would be considerate but they are not. I see it happen all the time in Greenland. Guys on sleds with loud can just hammer it right through town,,,they just don't care and for many older people it bothers them greatly. There is a law against it so why not enforce it greater than it already is. I understand BBB position and give him major props to standing up for his conviction even in the face of his adversaries. I'm buying Tom a beer next time I'm in. I've been told on this site before that my positions will effect my lodging business so what am I to do, roll over and die,,,not gonna happen.

Chicagosledder, thank's again for your service,,you rock brother!
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Thanks, Lenny it means a lot, especially in this day and age. I love coming up there and enjoying everything the area has to offer. I understand where he is coming from, I just hate to see his business take a financial hit over this. Hopefully there can be a happy medium on this and all can enjoy. I definitely wouldn't want to live next to a trail for that reason.
 
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lenny

Guest
united said:
SAE Society of Automotive Engineers charges to download specs. Run across it a lot for work. Usually you can find the specs. buried somewhere deep in the internet. Just saying if you are going of of Can Manufacturer's literature you may have been mislead and a lot of us upstanding JohnDeers might be part of the problem and not even be aware. Just type in the above listed specs. in google and see what comes back.



United,
currently in MI, we are required to pass one noise emission test and that test is the SAE-J2567 stationary sound test. here is a cut and past of the Mi regulation law:

Noncompliance could damage Michigan's nationally recognized trail program
March 4, 2015
Conservation officers with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources remind snowmobilers that state law does have decibel limits for snowmobiles. Officers in the western Upper Peninsula have been working patrols targeting sound violations in response to numerous complaints from landowners and others who live near snowmobile trails.
Under Michigan law, the muffler on a snowmobile must be in good working order and when in constant operation noise emission cannot exceed the following levels:

  • For snowmobiles manufactured after July 1, 1977 and sold or offered for sale in Michigan, 78 decibels at 50 feet, as measured using the 2003 Society of Automotive Engineers standard J192.
  • For a stationary snowmobile manufactured after July 1, 1980 and sold or offered for sale in Michigan, 88 decibels at 13.1 feet, as measured using the 2004 Society of Automotive Engineers standard J2567.
The penalty for violating the sound levels for snowmobiles is a civil infraction, with fines up to $250.
This season, conservation officers on patrols in the western U.P. have issued tickets to numerous snowmobile operators whose sleds have well exceeded the 88-decibel limit, said the DNR's Sgt. Ryan Aho.
"As a point of comparison, a train whistle at 500 feet is 90 decibels and sustained exposure at that level may result in hearing loss," Aho said. "We encourage snowmobile operators to properly maintain their machines, and also discourage them from modifications that make sleds louder."
Snowmobiles that do not comply with Michigan law for noise emission also can hurt the state's trails program, said Ron Yesney, a recreation specialist with the DNR.
"Half of our snowmobile trails are on private lands and are there at the sole discretion of the landowner, and many pass through communities and very near to homes," Yesney said. "Snowmobiles that exceed the noise emission levels are often a reason why we lose trail permissions on private land. Riders who modify their machines to make them extra loud jeopardize the enjoyment of our nationally recognized trails for all riders."
For more information on snowmobiling in Michigan, including current laws and regulations, go towww.michigan.gov/snowmobiling.
The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use and enjoyment of the state's natural and cultural resources for current and future generations. For more information, go towww.michigan.gov/dnr.

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I specifically called SLP and told them of the can I am interested and they did indeed state that it does meet Michigan's noise regulation SAE J-2567. In fact, all the sleds me and my buddies have all meet that standard. I didn't check every can for every application but all the ones I did check did comply. So earlier on I stated SLP made cans that meets the standard in MI. You or someone else mentioned there are multiple tests possible and that is true but OEM's are subject to those regulations. There are multiple tests but only from the OEM's. Each state has specific regulations and MI has one,,,the SAE J-3567. I have done the leg work to provide you with the necessary info to address your specific comments in response to others on this thread. There is no more guess work here bud. there may be guys with other cans but the ones we specifically discussed in clarified now. Remember, one test in Mi to comply with SAE J-2567
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united

Active member
I didn't say to ban anybody. All these different tests are confusing and do not appear to be apples to apples to me. I am just wondering if some people (no one in particular) think they have legal cans but are actually over the db limit? I don't know maybe that is a silly question?
 
L

lenny

Guest
united said:
I didn't say to ban anybody. All these different tests are confusing and do not appear to be apples to apples to me. I am just wondering if some people (no one in particular) think they have legal cans but are actually over the db limit? I don't know maybe that is a silly question?
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it's not a silly question but I did edit my last post with some good info I found today. Thanks for helping us figure this out as it is very important.
 
mezz

mezz

Well-known member
united said:
I didn't say to ban anybody. All these different tests are confusing and do not appear to be apples to apples to me. I am just wondering if some people (no one in particular) think they have legal cans but are actually over the db limit? I don't know maybe that is a silly question?
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In all actuality, the points you brought up with the SAE procedures & sound tests do lead to the very question you asked, definitely not a silly question. The issue at hand is the obnoxiously excessive noise, & you don't need to have a decibel meter to detect that, or the irresponsible operators. Good points though.-Mezz
 
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snobuilder

Well-known member
Never been to Yellowstone but do they allow hacked Harleys through there?

If they do that would be one heck of a hypocracy seeing as how during the winter only, a limited amount of very quiet sleds are allowed
in under very tight scrutiny.

Yellowstone is just one example of the double standard that is tolerated between two different forms of recreation vehicle use.
 
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