Cat/Yamy deal announced

[G]

They aren't going to turbo the "Viper." The only way I see this happening is if/when AC no longer offers the turbo'd Suzuki.

I seriously doubt AC will be launching a new chassis next year and now with Yamaha showing their hand it's unlikely they will EVER offer a new chassis of their own.

I'm thoroughly unimpressed by this "move" from Yamaha. IMO, this is Yammi beginning to exit the snowmobile market.

Again, IF the new Viper works out I could see AC dumping the turbozuki. It is not without its flaws to begin with. Common chassis plus common motor(s) equals cheaper production equals more profit. If Yammi does exit the snowmobile market we will still be able to get a sled with a Yammi motor if we want. Who could blame them if they did quit? They don't make any money on sleds. They probably sell more pianos than snowmobiles. Have had Yammis since 2003. Will not miss crappy suspension, rear exhaust, non-adjustable without taking sled apart headlights, garbage skis, smaller gas tanks etc. Yammi makes good motors and clutches. After that the list gets short.

 

[shelby369]

Market demand will answer that question. Looks like more competition for MXZ long & short tracks hard core bump sled + Rush then 137 tracks target Switchback Adventure & GSX with 4s engine would be my best guess @ niche. Although Polaris offers big bang for buck on non current 600 Rush & Switchbacks where MSRP of Viper is between 12-13K. I will have to test ride the Vipers to figure true market niche since I have ridden the complete non current Yamaha line of sleds & know how they handle & who would like what. So far I have an open mind to this partnership.

Maybe get ya on a cat then ???????

 

[whitedust]

I would not rush to judgement that this is the end of anything & in fact expands the Yam 2014 lineup with a new model nothing went away in 2014. I'm thinking Yam will coast for awhile keep this current trail line but expand mountain in near future. The future of all OEMS depends on us & what we purchase & good snow season helps a lot. Poo & 4s??.... well they plain have to get into the game or out of the 4s market others so far ahead of them.

 

[whitedust]

Maybe get ya on a cat then ???????

Why??... what do we know about AC 2014 lineup at this point?

 

[shelby369]

Just the matching of Yama motor and a world class chasis might get some of you blue bloods to think green..........ha ha he he

seriously I hope AC in this deal got there hands on Yama DI technology for a DI 2 stroke 600 class motor to combat the Etec........

I'm still old school and prefer 2 stroke over 4.............time will tell

 

[alwaysright]

Why??... what do we know about AC 2014 lineup at this point?

We do know the AC 2014 will have yami motors!

 

[whitedust]

Just the matching of Yama motor and a world class chasis might get some of you blue bloods to think green..........ha ha he he

seriously I hope AC in this deal got there hands on Yama DI technology for a DI 2 stroke 600 class motor to combat the Etec........

I'm still old school and prefer 2 stroke over 4.............time will tell

Exactly just don't know what Yam engines AC is using & how they applied them turbo, no turbo, 4 holer, 2s who knows until AC releases 2014 line up?

 

[oktaneho]

EPA is forcing cleaner 2 smoke and probably easier just to invest in current 4 stroke tec and drop all the R$D cost on 2 smokes. Motox did it and it's the new norm now. Gonna be the same in sleds over time and we are seeing history being made.QUOTE]




Just a point of information here; the EPA does not regulate motocross bikes and had nothing to do with the change to 4-strokes. It was strictly because they were more competitive than the 2 stroke bikes they were allowed to race in the same class with. Once the racers learned the 4-strokes were an advantage, the demand for 4-strokes eclipsed the demand for 2-strokes.

As far as the snowmobile world, I doubt there would be many 4-strokes on the market if the EPA wasn't involved.

 

[whitedust]

EPA is forcing cleaner 2 smoke and probably easier just to invest in current 4 stroke tec and drop all the R$D cost on 2 smokes. Motox did it and it's the new norm now. Gonna be the same in sleds over time and we are seeing history being made.QUOTE]




Just a point of information here; the EPA does not regulate motocross bikes and had nothing to do with the change to 4-strokes. It was strictly because they were more competitive than the 2 stroke bikes they were allowed to race in the same class with. Once the racers learned the 4-strokes were an advantage, the demand for 4-strokes eclipsed the demand for 2-strokes.

As far as the snowmobile world, I doubt there would be many 4-strokes on the market if the EPA wasn't involved.

For me you just have to run DI 2s so lean to meet EPA requirements the engines just can not hold up. Will 2s phase out altogether just don't know people like them.

 

[oktaneho]

I would have liked to see EPS on this new sled, but other than that I think it looks like a real sweet deal. Looks like it could be one of my next sleds.

 

[alwaysright]

I think the yami 3 holer's come in at 135 HP, I don't think the side exit exhaust will effect it that much vs the rear.

I expect 130-135 HP claims in the procross chassis.

Also heard from a little bird that it was CAT that first shoehorned the 3 hole yami into thier chassis and when yami saw how well it worked they wanted to be apart of the deal and got onboard, that being said I would only expect the same 3 hole motor in the AC... for now.

 

[StreetnSnow]

Had 3 Yamis in a row now, after having ridden Poo for years. Was very impressed with the Pro-Cross chassis & susp. after last year's Cat factory demo. Would love to ride one of the Viper XTXs. Could be an outstanding combo...

 

[lenny]

EPA is forcing cleaner 2 smoke and probably easier just to invest in current 4 stroke tec and drop all the R$D cost on 2 smokes. Motox did it and it's the new norm now. Gonna be the same in sleds over time and we are seeing history being made.QUOTE]


Just a point of information here; the EPA does not regulate motocross bikes and had nothing to do with the change to 4-strokes. It was strictly because they were more competitive than the 2 stroke bikes they were allowed to race in the same class with. Once the racers learned the 4-strokes were an advantage, the demand for 4-strokes eclipsed the demand for 2-strokes.

As far as the snowmobile world, I doubt there would be many 4-strokes on the market if the EPA wasn't involved.

that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I was trying to get across was that the EPA plays a vital role in what manufactures are allowed to produce concern emissions (and I did know that it was for the snowmobiles cause that's the topic we are on.The fact that 4 strokes dominate the motox industry is a good example that 4 stroke motor characteristics can work on sleds also. Most people believe that 4 stroke sleds are too heavy and undesirable and early on a similar prejudice existed in motox.

Seeing what cat and yammi has done now may just be the ice breaker we all needed. I am very interested to see how this chassis and motor combo performs. Regardless, I wont be buying one any time soon because me and tree's do not get along and I just cannot justify riding that valuable of a sled into the hills. Now if I lived out west,,oh yea!!!!

 

[dmsrx]

Its the Nytro engine with Cat Fuel injection (due to licensing issues), Yamaha runs Yamaha clutch, Cat will run Cat clutch. Different windshield and Headlight on the Yamaha. Otherwise the Yamaha and Cat will be the same sled.

 

[upbarleyboy]

Exactly just don't know what Yam engines AC is using & how they applied them turbo, no turbo, 4 holer, 2s who knows until AC releases 2104 line up?

Jeesh Whitedust....everyone here discussing the next model year, and your rubbing the crystall ball and looking 91 years down the road - 2104?????? I'm guessing sledding as we know it will have changed quite drastically by than.

 

[ezra]

I did not think that there would be a merger because I know for a fact Arctic Cat Ordered enough turbo motors to get them through 2016 So at this point my only guess Is there planning on using the 135 horsepower 3 cylinder Until at least 2016 Then maybe turbocharging it I don't think very many people bought The non turbo Arctic Cat 4 strokes maybe with a Yamaha in it people will buy a non torbo who knows

 

[olsmann]

No one wants to talk about the fact that we are now basically down to 3 manufactures now? this is a whole lot more than an engine agreement, cat gave yamaha a chassis and yamaha gave them motors. The question no one seems to ask is WHY is this really all happening? Who has tons of cash and who did not? Who needed whos help more? I suspect yamaha just bailed cat out of serious future financial whoes They needed some motors (and cash to survive) and they traded the only thing they had that yamaha wanted, a chassis. Im curious to know how much of cat, yamaha actually now owns! I dont feel like the "agreement" that was announced is the whole story here.

 

[arcticgeorge]

Nice they have always been my favorite 2 sled companys! The new blue Viper with the AC A-arms looks awesome. http://cs.amsnow.com/sno/b/news/arc..._campaign=SNO_NEWS_130220_Final1&utm_content=

 

[booondocker]

.....I'm thoroughly unimpressed by this "move" from Yamaha. IMO, this is Yammi beginning to exit the snowmobile market.

We have a WINNER!!

Yamaha has been SQUEEZED...by the dollar and the cost to make those machines...which is another reason they lead the pack on ticket prices.

On the other hand, AC has opened the door to making their own motors with a state of the art facility they intend to build on.

As long as the Yen is strong, watch as Yamaha struggles to survive unless they buddy up with someone like Cat....

For Yamaha to stay in the sled biz...they need to cut costs and ticket prices and they need to sell more sleds. If they don't...they will be gone!

(The above does not reflect the views of this station and the author is solely responsible for the pure conjecture on this topic!)

 

[G]

The only reason any of them are sticking around is to see who is second to BRP. There is no money in this game. Poo doesn't need sleds. AC makes more money on 4 wheelers. Yammi - give me a break. There will have to be an alternative to Bombardier. Who's it going to be? Some comglomeration of what's left? Face it - since 2003 Doo has destroyed the competition. Numbers don't lie. The Rev was only the intro to the next generation and then they came with the E-tech which they have every patent on and nobody else can even come close. In 2003 AC came with the Firecat which was not exactly the future. Poo came with lumpy stickers. Yammi came with the 2003 RX 1 that turned into the Apex and gained more weight as the years went on. Snowmobiles are an afterthought for all of these companies except BRP. AC needs Yammi motors to survive??????? AC is more financially healthy than it has been in years. The best thing that could happen to AC stockholders is to disco snowmobiles altogether. They would make more $.