Cat/Yamy deal announced

[fusion]

Yamaha has way more financial strength than AC. If they wanted to, they could buy AC 10 times over. My guess is, Yamaha knows they have great motors, but don't want to spend the R&D on chassis development given the limited profit generation of sleds - as compared to all their other product markets. Too much risk in R&D that may take years to yield financial gains. Is there anything Yamaha doesn't make?

If Yamaha exits the sled market it will be because it has become an annoyance to them. At the prices they are charging in the last few years, they are no doubt making good margin and bottom line profit, even in an ever shrinking market. I don't know what to make of this agreement. It will take 3-4 years for the effects and market acceptance to shake out. How many people are going to take a chance on a 1/2 Yam, 1/2 AC?

 

[xf800sp]

No one wants to talk about the fact that we are now basically down to 3 manufactures now? this is a whole lot more than an engine agreement, cat gave yamaha a chassis and yamaha gave them motors. The question no one seems to ask is WHY is this really all happening? Who has tons of cash and who did not? Who needed whos help more? I suspect yamaha just bailed cat out of serious future financial whoes They needed some motors (and cash to survive) and they traded the only thing they had that yamaha wanted, a chassis. Im curious to know how much of cat, yamaha actually now owns! I dont feel like the "agreement" that was announced is the whole story here.

Cat is quite healthy with 62 million of liquid short term investments. Cat has much better ratios in relation to debt and solvency then Yamaha. Due to Cat being an SEC registrant you would know if this was more than a contract to supply motors and manufacturing capability.

This was a move by Yamaha to limit their costs in a segment that doesn't make them much money. I wouldn't be surprised to see Yamaha exist as an engine supplier in the next 5 years.

 

[ezra]

from cat

Why did Arctic Cat approach Yamaha to supply snowmobile engines?

We already had an existing supply arrangement for the 120 engine starting in 2009;
this led to discussions on expanding the program. Arctic Cat then approached Yamaha to supply the industry’s leading 3-cylinder 1049cc 4-stroke engine. The new supply agreement is beneficial to both companies.

Why would Arctic Cat choose to work with Yamaha ?

Arctic Cat strives to work with the best suppliers, and one of them is Yamaha. Both
Arctic Cat and Yamaha are proven leaders in the snowmobile industry, by working together, both companies can learn from each other’s strengths, and in the end, the
customer wins with better products.

Is this a long-term strategy between both companies?

Both Arctic Cat and Yamaha have a long-term vision. This is a multi-year agreement
between both companies and it’s premature to comment on any future details or opportunities.

Will Arctic Cat buy other Yamaha snowmobile engines?

At this point, Yamaha and Arctic Cat have only agreed to share the 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine.

Will Yamaha receive any 2-stroke engines from Arctic Cat?

No.

What is the difference between the Arctic Cat and Yamaha snowmobiles?

The chassis, engine and calibration are essentially the same, although the styling cues, color, graphics, wind protection, headlight and fairing designs are different.

How does development work between the two companies?

The development of the snowmobile from a function standpoint is driven by Arctic Cat. Yamaha is a partner and shares in verification and validation. Both engineering teams work closely together to ensure that the final product meets quality and performance standards.

Will this agreement take any sales away from Arctic Cat?

This is a very brand loyal business, and there are minor differences in the snowmobiles which can offer additional value in either case. More importantly, we believe our dealers are prepared to offer the best after sales support for our customers. The 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine from Yamaha competes in the 135-hp class; a class that Arctic Cat does not currently have any entries in. We expect to gain share for Arctic Cat customers looking to buy in this category.

__________________

 

[Ronder]

from cat

Why did Arctic Cat approach Yamaha to supply snowmobile engines?

We already had an existing supply arrangement for the 120 engine starting in 2009;
this led to discussions on expanding the program. Arctic Cat then approached Yamaha to supply the industry’s leading 3-cylinder 1049cc 4-stroke engine. The new supply agreement is beneficial to both companies.

Why would Arctic Cat choose to work with Yamaha ?

Arctic Cat strives to work with the best suppliers, and one of them is Yamaha. Both
Arctic Cat and Yamaha are proven leaders in the snowmobile industry, by working together, both companies can learn from each other’s strengths, and in the end, the
customer wins with better products.

Is this a long-term strategy between both companies?

Both Arctic Cat and Yamaha have a long-term vision. This is a multi-year agreement
between both companies and it’s premature to comment on any future details or opportunities.

Will Arctic Cat buy other Yamaha snowmobile engines?

At this point, Yamaha and Arctic Cat have only agreed to share the 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine.

Will Yamaha receive any 2-stroke engines from Arctic Cat?

No.

What is the difference between the Arctic Cat and Yamaha snowmobiles?

The chassis, engine and calibration are essentially the same, although the styling cues, color, graphics, wind protection, headlight and fairing designs are different.

How does development work between the two companies?

The development of the snowmobile from a function standpoint is driven by Arctic Cat. Yamaha is a partner and shares in verification and validation. Both engineering teams work closely together to ensure that the final product meets quality and performance standards.

Will this agreement take any sales away from Arctic Cat?

This is a very brand loyal business, and there are minor differences in the snowmobiles which can offer additional value in either case. More importantly, we believe our dealers are prepared to offer the best after sales support for our customers. The 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine from Yamaha competes in the 135-hp class; a class that Arctic Cat does not currently have any entries in. We expect to gain share for Arctic Cat customers looking to buy in this category.

__________________

 

[longtrack]

there is one big reason, BRP is taking them both to the Cleaners and they are trying to SURVIVE.......

 

[lenny]

there is one big reason, BRP is taking them both to the Cleaners and they are trying to SURVIVE.......

ummmmmmmm,,,, a big fat NOT

 

[lenny]

from cat

Why did Arctic Cat approach Yamaha to supply snowmobile engines?

We already had an existing supply arrangement for the 120 engine starting in 2009;
this led to discussions on expanding the program. Arctic Cat then approached Yamaha to supply the industry’s leading 3-cylinder 1049cc 4-stroke engine. The new supply agreement is beneficial to both companies.

Why would Arctic Cat choose to work with Yamaha ?

Arctic Cat strives to work with the best suppliers, and one of them is Yamaha. Both
Arctic Cat and Yamaha are proven leaders in the snowmobile industry, by working together, both companies can learn from each other’s strengths, and in the end, the
customer wins with better products.

Is this a long-term strategy between both companies?

Both Arctic Cat and Yamaha have a long-term vision. This is a multi-year agreement
between both companies and it’s premature to comment on any future details or opportunities.

Will Arctic Cat buy other Yamaha snowmobile engines?

At this point, Yamaha and Arctic Cat have only agreed to share the 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine.

Will Yamaha receive any 2-stroke engines from Arctic Cat?

No.

What is the difference between the Arctic Cat and Yamaha snowmobiles?

The chassis, engine and calibration are essentially the same, although the styling cues, color, graphics, wind protection, headlight and fairing designs are different.

How does development work between the two companies?

The development of the snowmobile from a function standpoint is driven by Arctic Cat. Yamaha is a partner and shares in verification and validation. Both engineering teams work closely together to ensure that the final product meets quality and performance standards.

Will this agreement take any sales away from Arctic Cat?

This is a very brand loyal business, and there are minor differences in the snowmobiles which can offer additional value in either case. More importantly, we believe our dealers are prepared to offer the best after sales support for our customers. The 3-cylinder, 1049cc, 4-stroke engine from Yamaha competes in the 135-hp class; a class that Arctic Cat does not currently have any entries in. We expect to gain share for Arctic Cat customers looking to buy in this category.

__________________

sounds like a legit scoop and seeing both benefit verifies the union

 

[dcfroe]

With all due respect to those riders that prefer to ride a banana peel. Yes there are more of you on the trails and in the woods, the main reason is a cheaper cost. That being said you get what you pay for, the Yamaha 4 stroke engine has proven it to in class all it's own. The eTech motors will NEVER last as long as the life of the sled. Cat has a great chassis that buyers have preferred for years. Nick Keller has proved that a Yamaha snowmobile can last in excess of 59,000 miles, how close to that can a Banana Peel come??? So before you claim that both Cat and Yamaha are ready to close up shop take a look around, there are sleds built as strong OR stronger than your POO!

 

[fredster]

Well said, dcfroe, well said. I love the 3 cyl 4S engine in my Rage GT and what comes with it (torque, reliability, 18-20MPG, no oil to carry) but the rest of the sled has been much more problematic than my old Gen II Polaris sleds ever were....annual hyfax replacement, one new set of chaincase and skid bearings, and a new clutch, all within 5000 miles. If I could combine my engine with a better chassis I would do it yesterday, and that what the Viper looks like to me.

Once I buy a sled I rarely go back to the selling dealer. I get my aftermarket parts online and most of the shops in my area (West MI) sell all the brands. So it really doesn't matter to me if the machine is sourced from one company or the other, as long as it's the right solution for me - I'm going to buy my belts and hyfax from the same store anyways.

If the exchange rate ever turns around, those BRP sleds might wind up costing too much in the US.....give it time.

 

[russholio]

With all due respect to those riders that prefer to ride a banana peel. Yes there are more of you on the trails and in the woods, the main reason is a cheaper cost. That being said you get what you pay for, the Yamaha 4 stroke engine has proven it to in class all it's own. The eTech motors will NEVER last as long as the life of the sled. Cat has a great chassis that buyers have preferred for years. Nick Keller has proved that a Yamaha snowmobile can last in excess of 59,000 miles, how close to that can a Banana Peel come??? So before you claim that both Cat and Yamaha are ready to close up shop take a look around, there are sleds built as strong OR stronger than your POO!

Seriously? Ride quality has NOTHING to do with it?

Never owned a Yamaha, and never owned or ridden an eTech.....so I have no horse in the race. But comparing a 2s to a 4s seems like comparing apples to oranges to me.

 

[motor_slut]

I don't know what to think about this. I prefer 4 seperate OEM's. Can you get these worked on at Cat dealers now too? I know if Polaris and Ski Doo or any OEM ever joined forces, it would turn me off, big time! Does this mean Yamaha has no intention of engineering it's own new chassis? The Apex looks like the same old same old. Does Cat think they can't build their own engines? I just don't see where this makes much sense, unless one of them is not in it for the long run. Which one will be gone in 3 years?

Ski-doo and Polaris have been sharing technology for over 10 years. Sorry to burst your 4 separate OEM bubble.

 

[stifler51]

Sry to burst even more bubbles but AC and ski doo have shared info before too. It's nothing new in the industry. I ride cat and will continue to. Its never left me stranded yet so whether or not it can do a 120+ mph or crazy hole shot. Idc its Chevy vs Ford vs dodge topic.

 

[eagle1]

Here's a link to Chris Reids blog talking about the agreement.

http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2013/02/20/catz-outa-the-bag-2/

 

[gogebic_sledder]

Ski-doo and Polaris have been sharing technology for over 10 years. Sorry to burst your 4 separate OEM bubble.

I agree there is still 4 seperate OEM's, but its the same sled the yamaha is a cat with BNG. This is not the same as sharing electronic reverse or a-arms tech

 

[renegade600]

My opinion.... this is a lame cop out on Yamahas and Cats part.....combining of company resources usually spells the end of one or the other product line the product identity gets foggy, and now we have (3) instead of (4) mfg.

Nothing really appeals to me with this move....
Tom

 

[StreetnSnow]

What I don't understand is, why are there so many armchair quarterbacks? (Not geared towards anyone specifically)

If you like the new sled and want to buy one, great. If not, no big deal. It's somewhat akin to getting excited about politics. You can vent all you want, but unless you actually plan on doing something to change the situation, you're likely wasting your time.

 

[anonomoose]

there is one big reason, BRP is taking them both to the Cleaners and they are trying to SURVIVE.......

Actually, BRP wanted OUT of the sled biz only last year but abruptly decided not to because of the backlash as BRP had deep roots and beginnings in sleds.

Probably, the sled biz has been a losing prop for all the companies who make far more money in other offerings. Anyone who has used a sled in the last 4 years knows how little they got used and this impacts sales and thus profits. With marketing costs, and development costs increasing, and the dollar devalued compared to only 10 years ago, I wouldn't think that BRP is making much money on their sleds either. This is putting the squeeze on both Yamaha and BRP...and while both can afford to take the hit to keep in the biz...whether they will or not over the long haul is definitely in question.

Don't be surprised if several get out of the biz completely.

 

[G]

Actually, BRP wanted OUT of the sled biz only last year but abruptly decided not to because of the backlash as BRP had deep roots and beginnings in sleds.

Probably, the sled biz has been a losing prop for all the companies who make far more money in other offerings. Anyone who has used a sled in the last 4 years knows how little they got used and this impacts sales and thus profits. With marketing costs, and development costs increasing, and the dollar devalued compared to only 10 years ago, I wouldn't think that BRP is making much money on their sleds either. This is putting the squeeze on both Yamaha and BRP...and while both can afford to take the hit to keep in the biz...whether they will or not over the long haul is definitely in question.

Don't be surprised if several get out of the biz completely.

The sledmakers are in a self made pickle. They want to make reliable sleds that last for many miles without expensive repairs. The sled-sellers basically make very little money off the sale of a new sled. They rely on parts and service to make money. So everybody gets screwed. There is no money in sleds. It is only natural that corporate decisions will be made and some brands could dissapear overnight. None of the four is immune. It is a shrinking market. Pol and AC both pulled the plug on watercraft with very little notice. Yammi has the wonderful yen thing going on. Anything could happen. Perhaps I will get rich parting out my Apex in 29 years.

 

[anonomoose]

..... Perhaps I will get rich parting out my Apex in 29 years.

If Yamaha shuts down sled production in Japan, they may put a badge on a Cat for awhile..change the fenders and grill and then walk away. With the cost of producing and design what it is, your Apex might be PART FRIENDLY sooner than you think! I would start changing the filter more often, if I were you!

 

[Ronder]

A thread-

...Here you go homes....3rd Paragraph



February 20, 2013
‘Catz Out’a the Bag’
Well folks, this has to be one of the most speculated new product launches in our history. I met Tom G aka ‘Mr Sled’ last night, the owner of the Totallyamaha forums web-site who told me his server almost blew a gasket trying to handle all the people itching to post on the new stuff. I have followed the 2014 thread up to around the 130th page with a lot of mixed emotions, often reflecting on what I would write here today…

I remember what I first thought and how I felt when it was proposed that we enter into an agreement with our competition and I believe I have a very good understanding of what some of you are mulling over. I think it is really important to clarify what the fundamental arrangement is about.

This is not a merger, there have been no shares bought or sold and the management, policies and organizations of each company still stand alone. Yamaha and Arctic Cat have entered into a very specific ‘supply agreement’ contract. That’s it, no more, no less.

We (Yamaha) have a long term vision that embodies our product plan which includes new engines and models designed and manufactured at our factory in Japan. Todays announcement has not seen any of our model lines discontinued. We haven’t taken anything away, instead we have dropped 6 new models into the mix and you now have more choices than ever.

The SR Viper delivers our FX Nytro engine in a unique version of Cats newest chassis which is arguably the most advanced on the market today. Yes it is assembled in their Thief River Falls facility under rapidly evolving QA protocol that meets Yamaha global standards. To best understand the foundation for this supply agreement you have to look beyond the hardware to the actual business model. I will explain more about this in the coming weeks but for now I can summarize it by saying this is a business (and customer) win-win.

We both have our strengths and are eager to learn from each other. I would like to expand on what some of the opportunities I see for the future are, but that would only be speculation on my part. And you guys clearly don’t need my help to speculate . I am going to cut my post short and let you digest.

For now; know that we are committed to evolving and building a strong lineup of Yamaha original snowmobiles with new products coming every year going forward.

We are moving more manpower and resources into North America as we position ourselves to regain our fair share of the market. We have established a new NA snowmobile team combining our top guys in Canada and the US into a cohesive business unit. We have a new ‘friend’ in our quest but it is unknown how this will ultimately unfold. Today we can offer you the industries best engine in a damn fine chassis that handles and feels different than anything else in our stable. Is it better than an Apex, Vector or Nytro? Only you can answer that… It is a very cool sled with some excellent features and you have more choice. It’s all good.....Cheers CR