Do dogsleds have to buy trail permits if they use snowmobile trails in any states???
- Thread starter dickmsp
- Start date
polarisrider1
New member
Not in Michigan and neither do the cross country skiers or the snow shoer's or the hikers and neither does the little kid pulling his sister down the trail on her little pink sled. The Moose, deer, Bobcats, and little fuzzy bunny rabbits don't either. life is so un fair.
LoveMyDobe
Well-known member
Not in WI either.
polarisrider1
New member
Why don't pedestrians have to wear license plates when walking along the road? My dog wears a license to sit on the couch and watch for squirels all day long, maybe he needs a hunting license too? life is not fair.
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You're missing the point polarisrider1. The sled doggers pose another obstruction on the trail. They don't have positive steering and can be anywhere on the trail. I haven't seen or heard of any sled dog drivers brushing, maintaining, or grooming any trail. Do they belong to a snowmobile club? Donate any money to the groomers? Please let me know if they do. Also, a parenting tip: A snowmobile trail probably isn't the best place for kids to pull each other on little pink sleds...
polarisrider1
New member
Probably because the government would have to build a monster size building to house the 300-400 employees to regulate and operate the "Dog sled trail permit operation fund" for the the couple dozen (or other low number) dog sled teams around Michigan. They would need a budget of several million to collect the several hundred dollars. We have enough waste now.
polarisrider1
New member
lol just adding humor. By my cabin they announce a dog sled event way in advance and mark sections of trail off for their events that last usually a few hours. The dog sled teams try to use alternate routes such as running parallel along trails such as south out of mackinaw city. Dog sled events do ad to tourism and have very little impact on the trails. Maybe because the dogs each suppose to have a License and that is good enough for the state? good question.polarisrider1
New member
We got that going on here with the White Pines Trail (linear state park) Between Grand Rapids, MI and Cadillac, MI. little by little they pave a little more. then take pictures of stud damage to the pavement to throw in our faces, the ones who got the trails going in the first place.
Cause that's how Minnesota works!!! Or doesn't work when they shut the state down for a month last summer!!
don't forget in MN when u register your sleds here you STILL have to buy trail stickers for each sled!!
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Actually that's pretty good they let you guys know. In MN there's little if any warning, they practice on the trails, start fires on the side of trails so there's a hole on the trail bigger than a snowmobile's ski and a couple feet deep. usually no lights, and a couple friends came around a corner at night, 2 dogsleds had the trail blocked, no lights, and my buds got b!tched at for scaring the dogs as they sprayed a little snow as they dynamited the brakes..
oldguy
Member
In MN dogsledders do not need a permit. In my opinion they should not be on the trail and not offered a trail pass.
Several years ago in Ely MN, our group came over a hill to find 2 groups of dog sledders that lost control of the dogs and were sideways across the trail, completely blocking the trail. We narrowly missed all of them, but we ended well off the trail to avoid them. Ten years prior in basically the same area a friend of mine was not so lucky, he hit the lead dog when the exact same thing happened. The dog had to put down after the crash.
We see dog sledders all of the time in northern MN, most times the Musher has good control and we pass without issues. But Unfortunlity not all mushers have control over the dogs. When they have dog sled races they post it at the intersection so you are aware of the possible hazards. Only with that exceptions should they allow any dog sleds on a snowmobile trail.
Several years ago in Ely MN, our group came over a hill to find 2 groups of dog sledders that lost control of the dogs and were sideways across the trail, completely blocking the trail. We narrowly missed all of them, but we ended well off the trail to avoid them. Ten years prior in basically the same area a friend of mine was not so lucky, he hit the lead dog when the exact same thing happened. The dog had to put down after the crash.
We see dog sledders all of the time in northern MN, most times the Musher has good control and we pass without issues. But Unfortunlity not all mushers have control over the dogs. When they have dog sled races they post it at the intersection so you are aware of the possible hazards. Only with that exceptions should they allow any dog sleds on a snowmobile trail.
As an old timer, I long for the good old days when we used to have some peace and quiet up here. I have no problem buying a pass for non-motorized use of groomed snowmobile trails. If you benefit from the grooming, why not pay for it? I would guess the reason most states don't require passes is that it would give a voice to other users possibly leading to the need for further regulations. In some cases, non-motorized trail use restrictions may not even be legal.
If the snowmobile club actually owns the land or the easement for the trail and pays the landowners, then they could be allowed exclusive rights. That's how many ski trails are able to operate with restrictions to other user groups.
What some people fail to understand is that many of these snowmobile trails cross public lands, unplowed county roads, Commercial Forest Reserve (CFR)lands, and private property. It would be pretty hard to convince property owners and taxpayers that they can't use these established corridors to walk, dog sled, ski, snowshoe, hunt, fish, etc. In the case of CFR lands, non-motorized hunting and fishing are the only rights guaranteed by law.
The mentality that these trails are exclusive race tracks for snowmobiles is disrespectful to those of us who allow these trails to cross our land. What people need is a little common sense.
If the snowmobile club actually owns the land or the easement for the trail and pays the landowners, then they could be allowed exclusive rights. That's how many ski trails are able to operate with restrictions to other user groups.
What some people fail to understand is that many of these snowmobile trails cross public lands, unplowed county roads, Commercial Forest Reserve (CFR)lands, and private property. It would be pretty hard to convince property owners and taxpayers that they can't use these established corridors to walk, dog sled, ski, snowshoe, hunt, fish, etc. In the case of CFR lands, non-motorized hunting and fishing are the only rights guaranteed by law.
The mentality that these trails are exclusive race tracks for snowmobiles is disrespectful to those of us who allow these trails to cross our land. What people need is a little common sense.
oldguy
Member
In northeastern MN there are hundreds of thousands acres of land dog sleds can go on. There are thousands of logging roads as well. In that same area there are only around 10 major snowmobile trails. Why can’t the mushers develop their own trail system? There isn’t a tree hugger around that wouldn’t allow a dog sled trail across their property, so building a system should be a piece of cake.
It would be interesting to see how many dog sled team owners actually have Grant and Aid trails on their privately owned property. I am sure there could be a few, but it would be the exception. If sled dog team owner allows a Grant and Aid system to cross their property, why not post the duel use on that stretch. At least the snowmobiler’s would be aware of the possible hazards.
Sharing the trail makes sense for the dog sledders. The trails are marked, brushed, groomed and there are handy bridges that cross the rivers. All of these amenities are paid for by snowmobilers and the clubs they belong to.
I have no issues with people walking or even skiing on the trails, as long as they stay right and allow a safe passing area. But dogs pulling dog sleds sometimes do not follow the staying to the right rule.
It would be interesting to see how many dog sled team owners actually have Grant and Aid trails on their privately owned property. I am sure there could be a few, but it would be the exception. If sled dog team owner allows a Grant and Aid system to cross their property, why not post the duel use on that stretch. At least the snowmobiler’s would be aware of the possible hazards.
Sharing the trail makes sense for the dog sledders. The trails are marked, brushed, groomed and there are handy bridges that cross the rivers. All of these amenities are paid for by snowmobilers and the clubs they belong to.
I have no issues with people walking or even skiing on the trails, as long as they stay right and allow a safe passing area. But dogs pulling dog sleds sometimes do not follow the staying to the right rule.
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I know that many non snowmobilers that use these trails in the summer and would like to use them for non snowmobiling purposes in the winter, don' trealize that these trails would not be there if it weren't for the work of snowmobile clubs with their obtaining Grant in Aid, setting up trail routes, trail maintenance and the finances provided thru snowmobile licences and trail fees. These trails that people hike on in the summer wouldn't survive a season if it weren't for the regular volunteer maintence of the clubs. I don't like to label people tree huggers,etc, but it would be good idea if non-snowmobilers who use our trails or want to use them during winter understood how they come about. I think that that info needs to get out to the public. Most of my non-snowmobile friends think that the trails are provided thru their taxes and they are really surprised when informed otherwise. Also most snowmobilers do not realize how much work goes into maintenance, but they are are aware of the fact that they pay alot for licences and trail fees.