Just because the trails go by bars doesn't oblige anyone to stop in and if they do, to over-indulge. And just because someone chooses to not drink and ride does not automatically mean they're a non-drinking church-goer (NOT that there's anything wrong with them if they are).
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Dream Team chasing Tourists Away!
- Thread starter ubee
- Start date
1blue99srx600
New member
I have to agree with waterwalker, these for or against points of view regarding the DNR, drinking and riding and whether the sky is blue and the sun is yellow are not going to change.
I personally don't see the need to drink and ride but I am not against having a beer during the course of my all day ride every now and then.
And I am certainly not for going out and getting tanked and if I rode with people like that, I would not ride with them again but in the end you can only control yourself and who knows if the guy coming around the corner is lit. it's an assumed risk every time you go out and ride. We all know drinking & driving is illegal but people do it everyday and how do you know the guy coming at you down a two lane road isn't drunk, but you drive your car everyday.
Or how bout the DUI checkpoints during the major holidays, does it blow you have to be stopped and looked over? YES but again if you have nothing to hide and aren't breaking any laws who gives a ****, wah my liberties are being violated wah, wah stay out of my business wah, if it keeps a bunch of drunks off the road escpecially if they are the car in front or behind me or they pick up a phelon etc by doing this AWESOME. Same thing goes for sledding in certain regards, if you can get some people off the trail that shouldn't be on it, fine with me.
I can only speak to the times I have been stopped on a sled and although I was ticketed in one incident, I don't think the office was a jerk or an a-hole I broke the law he was doing his job. Abuses of power happen all over, It's not right and gives the good guys a bad name on either side of the badge, however I am not sure how we will ever put an end to that.
I personally don't see the need to drink and ride but I am not against having a beer during the course of my all day ride every now and then.
And I am certainly not for going out and getting tanked and if I rode with people like that, I would not ride with them again but in the end you can only control yourself and who knows if the guy coming around the corner is lit. it's an assumed risk every time you go out and ride. We all know drinking & driving is illegal but people do it everyday and how do you know the guy coming at you down a two lane road isn't drunk, but you drive your car everyday.
Or how bout the DUI checkpoints during the major holidays, does it blow you have to be stopped and looked over? YES but again if you have nothing to hide and aren't breaking any laws who gives a ****, wah my liberties are being violated wah, wah stay out of my business wah, if it keeps a bunch of drunks off the road escpecially if they are the car in front or behind me or they pick up a phelon etc by doing this AWESOME. Same thing goes for sledding in certain regards, if you can get some people off the trail that shouldn't be on it, fine with me.
I can only speak to the times I have been stopped on a sled and although I was ticketed in one incident, I don't think the office was a jerk or an a-hole I broke the law he was doing his job. Abuses of power happen all over, It's not right and gives the good guys a bad name on either side of the badge, however I am not sure how we will ever put an end to that.
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anonomoose
New member
I have to agree with waterwalker, these for or against points of view regarding the DNR, drinking and riding and whether the sky is blue and the sun is yellow are not going to change.
I personally don't see the need to drink and ride but I am not against having a beer during the course of my all day ride every now and then.
And I am certainly not for going out and getting tanked and if I rode with people like that, I would not ride with them again but in the end you can only control yourself and who knows if the guy coming around the corner is lit. it's an assumed risk every time you go out and ride. We all know drinking & driving is illegal but people do it everyday and how do you know the guy coming at you down a two lane road isn't drunk, but you drive your car everyday.
Or how bout the DUI checkpoints during the major holidays, does it blow you have to be stopped and looked over? YES but again if you have nothing to hide and aren't breaking any laws who gives a ****, wah my liberties are being violated wah, wah stay out of my business wah, if it keeps a bunch of drunks off the road escpecially if they are the car in front or behind me or they pick up a phelon etc by doing this AWESOME. Same thing goes for sledding in certain regards, if you can get some people off the trail that shouldn't be on it, fine with me.
I can only speak to the times I have been stopped on a sled and although I was ticketed in one incident, I don't think the office was a jerk or an a-hole I broke the law he was doing his job. Abuses of power happen all over, It's not right and gives the good guys a bad name on either side of the badge, however I am not sure how we will ever put an end to that.
This ideology prevailed in early history. In Salem, they burned you and if you died, you were innocent.
While the idea of catching a violator by using check points sounds good, in fact it is very bad because it assumes guilt before you are found guilty. This is NOT to be confused by a DNR guy checking licenses in shanties on a lake. There is a HUGE difference here.
At a check point, you get stopped and if they search long and hard, they can find a "reason" to stop you --can't they..broken tail light, faulty brake lever...the list is endless. But our constitution was set up to presume...you are innocent until proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Even traffic officers need to have "probable cause" to stop you...or it is considered harassment
When I read on this board people allowing this process of abuse to go on because, "darn it if you weren't guilty then you have nothing to worry about"...and it scares me to death.
Wars have been fought relatives died for our FREEDOM, and some don't even understand what that freedom is or what a civil right is.
Fact is many officers get lost in their conviction to get those bad dudes off the street. They use any method possible because the ends justifies the means.
We already passed through this process in history, decided it didn't work, and have provided laws to bend literally over back-wards to be sure your rights are NOT violated in an effort to "get you".
If you don't understand this, you should be ashamed to call yourself an American. I can assure you that people who move here having lived under dictators who abuse powers regularly to get what they want out of you, DO know that once you are in America, you are SUPPOSED to be beyond these abuses of power.
If an area...any area top bottom east or west-- abuses of this function of "patrol" or "corrective measures" it becomes not only our right to avoid those areas, (even if it makes the town suffer, or make changes either directly, or indirectly by avoiding the town's businesses) it is our duty to end them. Then and therefore, if the town businesses suffer, they have an obligation to uncover this process by complaint or by challenges in court, and get it resolved....this is doing what they should do. They need to raise a complaint, and announce that such measure is causing harm to their functions, then and they should be driven to do it for those who walk away, as well as those who are next in line.
You buy a car or truck, and it doesn't work, can't get repaired right, and the maker denies anything wrong...expect that you will loose that customer for LIFE. Maker looses enough business he changes or goes out of business (or the government bails them out)
It is the same when you roost about in an event that you know will have lots of people there and will be easy pickings for someone doing something wrong...rolling stops, sobriety tests for anyone who had one beer, etc....
Remember what Freedom is about. Abuse of power corrupts, and is the elements of a society that is doomed. But freedom is NOT free...we need to take corrective action when it is clear that those we entrust with law enforcement to do it right, don't...aka, no throwing the baby out with the dirty water.
Don't just pay a ticket because it is "easier to do" but because you were guilty and you know it. If there is doubt, or you weren't guilty, then shame on you for paying without presenting your case to a court of law. It is your RIGHT as an American, but it is also your duty under that right.
miaferominka
New member
Just because the trails go by bars doesn't oblige anyone to stop in and if they do, to over-indulge. And just because someone chooses to not drink and ride does not automatically mean they're a non-drinking church-goer (NOT that there's anything wrong with them if they are).
It just means they have more self control than a 3 yearold wanting a cookie
No one was was illegaly searched. Cops and DNR can sit anywhere they want and check licesnse tabs/registration. And if they smell booze they have probable cause.
Cops and DNR can sit anywhere and look for MI Trale stickers and registration stickers on your sled. The minute they stop you and ask you for your papers (license, safety certificate, etc....), that is called an unreasonable search without probable cause as you committed no infraction other than passing by a cop or DNR warden.
Your argument that if you've got nothing to hide what's the big deal shows you care less about your freedoms than you do about giving some guy with a badge power over you. Sorry, I'm not in that boat with you.
By the way, since when is it a crime to have alcohol on one's breath? Last time I checked, if you're over 21 you can have alcohol on your breath and operate a motor vehicle. Again, I don't drink. You're arguments for giving more power to cops and DNR begin to frighten me. It's sad people out there think like that but I'm just another bore that believes in the freedoms afforded under the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Call that arm chair lawyering all you want. I call it being informed.
Cops and DNR can sit anywhere and look for MI Trale stickers and registration stickers on your sled. The minute they stop you and ask you for your papers (license, safety certificate, etc....), that is called an unreasonable search without probable cause as you committed no infraction other than passing by a cop or DNR warden.
Your argument that if you've got nothing to hide what's the big deal shows you care less about your freedoms than you do about giving some guy with a badge power over you. Sorry, I'm not in that boat with you.
By the way, since when is it a crime to have alcohol on one's breath? Last time I checked, if you're over 21 you can have alcohol on your breath and operate a motor vehicle. Again, I don't drink. You're arguments for giving more power to cops and DNR begin to frighten me. It's sad people out there think like that but I'm just another bore that believes in the freedoms afforded under the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Call that arm chair lawyering all you want. I call it being informed.
So everytime the dnr has pulled me over in a boat to check for registration, life jackets or to check my fishing lic. I have had my constitutional rights violated? How bout when the cops do dwi check points? Are you arguing that when a cop pulls you over for speeding in your car, and he smells booze on your breath he does NOT have probable cause? I call it being paranoid.
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1blue99srx600
New member
Don't just pay a ticket because it is "easier to do" but because you were guilty and you know it. If there is doubt, or you weren't guilty, then shame on you for paying without presenting your case to a court of law. It is your RIGHT as an American, but it is also your duty under that right.
In my case I didn't just lay down and pay the fines because it was "easier to do", I hired a lawyer & went to court... Because I didn't think I did anything wrong and I lost. I fought the law and the law won, SHOCKER.
Cops and DNR can sit anywhere and look for MI Trale stickers and registration stickers on your sled. The minute they stop you and ask you for your papers (license, safety certificate, etc....), that is called an unreasonable search without probable cause as you committed no infraction other than passing by a cop or DNR warden.
Just because the machine has a trail pass or registration does not mean it's legit,
What if the machine they are stopping fits the description of a stolen machine and they want to see your info to make sure you are indeed the owner of the machine? According to above as long as you have stickers you're good and there is no reason to be stopped.
If I am missing something here please let me know.
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1. So everytime the dnr has pulled me over in a boat to check for registration, life jackets or to check my fishing lic. I have had my constitutional rights violated?
2. How bout when the cops do dwi check points?
3. Are you arguing that when a cop pulls you over for speeding in your car, and he smells booze on your breath he does NOT have probable cause?
4. I call it being paranoid.
1. Yes. Unless you did a maneuver in your boat (i.e wake in a no wake) these are just fishing expeditions. There is no probable cause in that example. (pun intended on fishing expedition)
2. Yes, these are legalized searches without probable cause that are being used to generate revenue unrelated to DWI. I don't agree with them. States like WI don't either. Apparently the legislators there understand the 4th Amendment too.
3. Probable cause established in that example, speeding. Nothing unreasonable there.
4. Paranoid? No. Informed, yes. Thanks for your concern
1. Just because the machine has a trail pass or registration does not mean it's legit, What if the machine they are stopping fits the description of a stolen machine and they want to see your info to make sure you are indeed the owner of the machine?
2. According to above as long as you have stickers you're good and there is no reason to be stopped. If I am missing something here please let me know.
1. If there is a report of a stolen machine and yours fits the description, there is probable cause to investigate. The other 250 machines that pass and do not fit the description are unreasonable searches if there is no match AND no offense was observed by DNR or cop.
2. Agree 100%. No violation witnessed = no reason to check papers or stop for questioning. Period. That's the law.
Unfortunately, the DNR and cops can say anything they want. The badge gives them more credibility than you in a court of law even if they are not telling the truth.
I want to be clear that I am not anti cop or anti DNR. I'm trying to discuss the 4th Amendment here.
So please tell us why after my 30 years of summer and winter fishing i have never heard of 1 single case being brought to the supreme court or any other court for that matter of the DNR violating someones 4th amendment rights by asking to see ones fishing licsense?( i believe this is the same thing as asking for sled registration) Honestly, its seems that is if its is such a blatant violation as you imply, Why i have never hear of a single blood sucking lawyer not taking this issue on? In 30 years of fishing i have been stoped at least once in the winter and once in the summer every year (never recieved a viloation) Not to mention everone i know has been stopped. I find it real hard to believe no one has tried to bring this to court? Or is it a much larger conspiricy that us uninformed are just now learning about??
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So please tell us why after my 30 years of summer and winter fishing i have never heard of 1 single case being brought to the supreme court or any other court for that matter of the DNR violating someones 4th amendment rights by asking to see ones fishing licsense?( i believe this is the same thing as asking for sled registration) Honestly, its seems that is if its is such a blatant violation as you imply, Why i have never hear of a single blood sucking lawyer not taking this issue on? In 30 years of fishing i have been stoped at least once in the winter and once in the summer every year (never recieved a viloation) Not to mention everone i know has been stopped. I find it real hard to believe no one has tried to bring this to court? Or is it a much larger conspiricy that us uninformed are just now learning about??
No conspiracy olsmann. In fact I'm not up in arms either. You're reading too deep into my posts. The fact of the matter is your rights against unreasonable searches without probable cause are being violated. You're obviously not offended by the DNR harassing you when you did nothing wrong to begin with. That's fine. We just have a difference of opinion.
This thread commented on DNR checkpoints. My comments are in regard to those. If you find them acceptable, so be it. I made my case as to why I find them unacceptable. Someone above commented that it is un-American if you don't understand the freedoms those before us fought for. I'm not so willing to waste those lives lost fighting for my freedom to not be unreasonably searched without probable cause. Even if it doesn't bother you when it happens to you, I hope you understand my point of view.