Engine size

[towtruck]

back to the 600 vs 800.. I have had both for 10 years for off trial riding -
I can control the 600 off trial and have had no major issues
the 800 has had two major engine issues and it likes to hit trees! (and not in a good way!)
gotta have the 800 for out west. but if I only rode in the UP I would skip the 800 all together

 

[momoney2123]

But to be honest if u were smart enough to sping check an etec with 4 year warranty, it really let's u be a gas and go and beat the snot out of it person with little worry. Even if u only run 2k miles a year thats 8k before warranty is up.

 

[whitedust]

I dont think ur far off. If u run 10k a season you have no business owning a 2 stroke of any brand. Its not rocket science a 4 stroke is much better suited 4 long distance long time ownership. Personally If I had any 2s at 7500 miles id be taking the top end apart for at very least an inspection. Checking crank runout and repacking with isoflex. There is a reason some people never have problems and the same people have all the problems IMO. Its not luck or magic. Having reasonable expectations and doing preventative maintance goes a long ways. Not buying a 2 stroke and just gasing and going beating snot out of it for 10k miles. Then yes its prolly a coinflip whether that sleds lives to 10k, whether its cat2s, poos 2s or doo2s. If u want to run tons of miles and keep ur sled 5 years its easy get a 1200 or 900 ace from doo or a yamaha. Dont buy a large bored 2 stroke 800etec and say its junk because it only got me 7500 miles on orginal pistons , thats the frustrating part.

Exactly why I'm a Yamaha 4s guy with no worries do my seasonal sled maintenance & ride till next oil & hyfax change. From all I have read on the internet & in my experience 2s need too much attention to be relaible for me to be a big mile trail rider. A little 4s weight is meaningless compared to 2s when the choice is a breakdown & walking home or a complete 2s rebuild at some point in season. For trails I just don't get the 2s attraction too much to worry about vs gas & go 4s.

 

[momoney2123]

back to the 600 vs 800.. I have had both for 10 years for off trial riding -
I can control the 600 off trial and have had no major issues
the 800 has had two major engine issues and it likes to hit trees! (and not in a good way!)
gotta have the 800 for out west. but if I only rode in the UP I would skip the 800 all together

Just my personal opinion. The 600s dont do it for me. Yes they are more reliable on average, but are lacking when u need power, biggie time.

 

[momoney2123]

Exactly why I'm a Yamaha 4s guy with no worries do my seasonal sled maintenance & ride till next oil & hyfax change. From all I have read on the internet & in my experience 2s need too much attention to be relaible for me to be a big mile trail rider. A little 4s weight is meaningless compared to 2s when the choice is a breakdown & walking home or a complete 2s rebuild at some point in season. For trails I just don't get the 2s attraction too much to worry about vs gas & go 4s.

Yea I understand why u ride a 4s, makes perfect sense. For me 2stroke really more attractive still. Like the power, handling, and lighter front end. When the trails are ruff its a no brainer for me. When trails are perfect a 4s is nice. Back home ditchbanging, running drifts and powder, 4s not very good with that. I dont keep my sled longer than 3 years either, if I did I may look 4s. When doo comes with a lighter turbo 4s, I may switch. Until then 2strokes

 

[whitedust]

Yea I understand why u ride a 4s, makes perfect sense. For me 2stroke really more attractive still. Like the power, handling, and lighter front end. When the trails are ruff its a no brainer for me. When trails are perfect a 4s is nice. Back home ditchbanging, running drifts and powder, 4s not very good with that. I dont keep my sled longer than 3 years either, if I did I may look 4s. When doo comes with a lighter turbo 4s, I may switch. Until then 2strokes

To me 150+ HP 2s or 4s I like broader power band of 4s. I can ditch bang with 144 track with any 2s sled ....drifts & powder is were 2s starts to shine 4s extra weight not so much. I don't think about upgrading until pushing 10-12k miles unless something new bites me .....I just have to have it like EPS did... now it would take another feature or new sled to draw me from Apex XTX I just know the Yamaha 4s engine is not an issue.Real good feeling for big mile rider.

 

[towtruck]

Oh no you didnt....
When I was young I thought that the more you payed for a car, snowmobile or motorcycle the longer it would last. Boy was I naive. My buddies and I all ride metrics, but to show we don't suffer from brand prejudice, we'll stop at the local HD dealer and sample the free continental pastries and coffee. Well, their not really free, the Harley rider that paid three times more for his motorcycle, (and refused to wave on the way over) paid for it.

X2

 

[lenny]

I dont think ur far off. If u run 10k a season you have no business owning a 2 stroke of any brand. Its not rocket science a 4 stroke is much better suited 4 long distance long time ownership. Personally If I had any 2s at 7500 miles id be taking the top end apart for at very least an inspection. Checking crank runout and repacking with isoflex. There is a reason some people never have problems and the same people have all the problems IMO. Its not luck or magic. Having reasonable expectations and doing preventative maintance goes a long ways. Not buying a 2 stroke and just gasing and going beating snot out of it for 10k miles. Then yes its prolly a coinflip whether that sleds lives to 10k, whether its cat2s, poos 2s or doo2s. If u want to run tons of miles and keep ur sled 5 years its easy get a 1200 or 900 ace from doo or a yamaha. Dont buy a large bored 2 stroke 800etec and say its junk because it only got me 7500 miles on orginal pistons , thats the frustrating part.

I agree with most of your post. Keep in mind some people buy a gade because it's a great crossover. OMDave is a capable rider and rides like crazy so his style of rider does both styles of riding and he is what I call a big mile guy, 7500 mile in 2 seasons on his 600 etec gade and he traded it in on a 15 1200 4s . He rides a ton of logging roads, trail combo. Here is the thing about OM, he religiously takes his sled to Track side for winterizing and summarizing and he runs strictly doo oil, the man is no slouch on maintenance and take s very good care of his machines. There in storage now, tracks off the ground, covers on them, no one does a better job at taking care of their toys than OMDave. The thing I agree with you most on is a 2s,,any current 2s for that matter should be looked at closely at 7500 miles.

 

[momoney2123]

I agree with most of your post. Keep in mind some people buy a gade because it's a great crossover. OMDave is a capable rider and rides like crazy so his style of rider does both styles of riding and he is what I call a big mile guy, 7500 mile in 2 seasons on his 600 etec gade and he traded it in on a 15 1200 4s . He rides a ton of logging roads, trail combo. Here is the thing about OM, he religiously takes his sled to Track side for winterizing and summarizing and he runs strictly doo oil, the man is no slouch on maintenance and take s very good care of his machines. There in storage now, tracks off the ground, covers on them, no one does a better job at taking care of their toys than OMDave. The thing I agree with you most on is a 2s,,any current 2s for that matter should be looked at closely at 7500 miles.

what was the reason for his 600 failing?

 

[lenny]

what was the reason for his 600 failing?

I'll ask him the details, he just said it had blown up which is vague. He actually kept that sled for this winter because it is a summit but dumped the gade

 

[lenny]

I texted OM and he texted back saying "rings and piston, small hole in top, clutch side"

 

[momoney2123]

I texted OM and he texted back saying "rings and piston, small hole in top, clutch side"

hmmm most likely bad fuel? Air leak somewhere? Hole in top of piston something caused extreme heat. Doubt it was plug gap. Couldnt be lean state on etec. If he was running low octane fuel and really humping her, that is likely the cause.

 

[lenny]

nope, I have riden many years with OM and he NEVER runs anything but premium. OM is just that 57 years old so he doesn't hump it to hard just rides many many hrs. If you see ski tracks in the morning on the grade to Twin Lakes before sun up it's OM,,,lol. He's on the trail by 8, still dark often and home when it's still dark. Air leak could be possible but octane no and really humping it, no

 

[momoney2123]

nope, I have riden many years with OM and he NEVER runs anything but premium. OM is just that 57 years old so he doesn't hump it to hard just rides many many hrs. If you see ski tracks in the morning on the grade to Twin Lakes before sun up it's OM,,,lol. He's on the trail by 8, still dark often and home when it's still dark. Air leak could be possible but octane no and really humping it, no

I gotchya. He may of thought he was putting premium in it, but as we all know thats not always the case. Especially up there. The etec should sense the low fuel octane and adjust accordingly but can only do so much. Bad fuel and holding in mid range lean zone could do it as well. Something caused a hole in piston that is NOT normal. If they didnt find an air leak during the rebuild, I duno what else could cause it. Im sure a leak down test was performed after rebuild(whoever did it) so if nothing out of the norm was found during the rebuild, my moneys on bad fuel. If a leak down test was not performed, I would tell him to do one as it may just be a matter of time before it happens again.

 

[lenny]

I gotchya. He may of thought he was putting premium in it, but as we all know thats not always the case. Especially up there. The etec should sense the low fuel octane and adjust accordingly but can only do so much. Bad fuel and holding in mid range lean zone could do it as well. Something caused a hole in piston that is NOT normal. If they didnt find an air leak during the rebuild, I duno what else could cause it. Im sure a leak down test was performed after rebuild(whoever did it) so if nothing out of the norm was found during the rebuild, my moneys on bad fuel. If a leak down test was not performed, I would tell him to do one as it may just be a matter of time before it happens again.

Good points and great advice, thanks! I'll relay the info to the OM. Dave is a lurker on this site so I assume he is probably following the thread. Maybe we can get him to post,,come on old man, tell us what all you have learned on the burn down!

 

[fusion]

600 way to go - for weight alone

Put 600 Pro R on trailer two weeks ago to take it to dealer for 500 mile. Did it myself without starting, no winch, pick it up, walk it up the ramp, pull it the rest of the way.
Pick up the back end - wow, it actually comes off the ground WITHOUT a hernia or slipped disc. Front end moves too! Big difference, like 135 lbs between the Ape-tank and Rush.
Worth buying a 2S for that convenience alone. Just don't drive the damn thing until temp is at least 120 range. I never do - period. I have patience, I can wait an extra 10 minutes.
Yam needs to lower weight by at least a hundred, then they can double market share and be at 9%, in 3rd place ahead of A-cr!p. Just the way I see it. No need for 800 when just trail riding in Vilas Cty. Big time over kill. With a 6 you lose some at 85, so big deal. Keep the Vector around for change of pace - great motor, but 125 lbs. too heavy.

 

[lenny]

Put 600 Pro R on trailer two weeks ago to take it to dealer for 500 mile. Did it myself without starting, no winch, pick it up, walk it up the ramp, pull it the rest of the way.
Pick up the back end - wow, it actually comes off the ground WITHOUT a hernia or slipped disc. Front end moves too! Big difference, like 135 lbs between the Ape-tank and Rush.
Worth buying a 2S for that convenience alone. Just don't drive the damn thing until temp is at least 120 range. I never do - period. I have patience, I can wait an extra 10 minutes.
Yam needs to lower weight by at least a hundred, then they can double market share and be at 9%, in 3rd place ahead of A-cr!p. Just the way I see it. No need for 800 when just trail riding in Vilas Cty. Big time over kill. With a 6 you lose some at 85, so big deal. Keep the Vector around for change of pace - great motor, but 125 lbs. too heavy.

what about on the UP grades where you can cruise at 85 for miles and don't say we shouldn't be riding 85 for miles,,,lol

I do agree on the weight, it's nice to move the sleds around easily when needed. I move the pro rmk around easily and can appreciate that!~

 

[ezra]

Put 600 Pro R on trailer two weeks ago to take it to dealer for 500 mile. Did it myself without starting, no winch, pick it up, walk it up the ramp, pull it the rest of the way.
Pick up the back end - wow, it actually comes off the ground WITHOUT a hernia or slipped disc. Front end moves too! Big difference, like 135 lbs between the Ape-tank and Rush.

WHY ?
that sounds like young Buck stuff to me .
unless of course the all mighty poo was actually busted and some one just cant bring them self to admit it :]

 

[snobuilder]

I just noticed a flaw in the poll....the nytro motor falls in a gap in the catagories
so were you trying to eliminate alla the nytros, Vipers and AC7000.

 

[Hoosier]

Put 600 Pro R on trailer two weeks ago to take it to dealer for 500 mile. Did it myself without starting, no winch, pick it up, walk it up the ramp, pull it the rest of the way.
Pick up the back end - wow, it actually comes off the ground WITHOUT a hernia or slipped disc. Front end moves too! Big difference, like 135 lbs between the Ape-tank and Rush.
Worth buying a 2S for that convenience alone. Just don't drive the damn thing until temp is at least 120 range. I never do - period. I have patience, I can wait an extra 10 minutes.
Yam needs to lower weight by at least a hundred, then they can double market share and be at 9%, in 3rd place ahead of A-cr!p. Just the way I see it. No need for 800 when just trail riding in Vilas Cty. Big time over kill. With a 6 you lose some at 85, so big deal. Keep the Vector around for change of pace - great motor, but 125 lbs. too heavy.

For a guy with a name like Fusion and all the baggage that comes with it (I know, I own one), you sure have a lot of hate for Arctic Cat! I don't get the brand hatred.