gun violence

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lenny

Guest
Help me out here people for I am trying to understand the logic of things I am hearing lately. Immediately after the horrific event in CT I had started to hear a big discussion on gun violence,,,again. What actually is gun violence compared to knife violence, baseball-bat violence, brick violence, metal pipe violence, car violence, motorcycle violence, rope violence, hammer violence, shovel violence, pillow violence, decon violence,,etc,,,,,I mean really, I consider myself a reasonably minded individual but I cannot come to terms with the logic of blaming the item of choice to kill rather than the individual with their intent.

Trust me people, I am heart broken at what has happened and I want as bad as any of you want to see PEOPLE stop doing this sort of thing. The truth is that man will always make decisions of violent actions.


I believe we dropped the ball year and years ago when we stopped punishing swiftly and harshly for peoples actions. Think of it like this, if a person invades a home and is armed, they risk their own life by the person occupying the home. They also risk the life of the occupier of the home. So if a punishment suits the possible outcome of the invasion maybe we could deter violent offenders. Maybe a punishment for such people could be long term indebtedness, a severe public beating,, and I mean severe or other strong deterrents. Right now you live in jail with free room and board and are a tax on society, what's so bad about that. What strong message do we send when we simple physically keep them away from the opportunity? Does not the temptation stem from the heart? We need strong, swift punishment and pain worked on us as kids so why not as adults.

Literally beat people close to death if they potentially could have killed someone. No one likes pain!
 
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lenny

Guest
what about first time offenders like we see in schools? what do we do? Do we police and regulate every aspect of life because of a few in relative comparison?
 
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rocketman356

New member
Lenny I agree with most of the above.Until the deterrent statement as almost all these wackos off themselves when done killing.It's the culture of today creating this promblem.Murder has a stiffer sentence than any gun law.So common sense would lead you to more gunlaws would equal zero to fix this as these guys don't give a crap about any law.The federal goverment is full of toads as are most states.Comes down to we must armed ourselves and deal with it legal or not.
 
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lenny

Guest
rocketman356 said:
Lenny I agree with most of the above.Until the deterrent statement as almost all these wackos off themselves when done killing.It's the culture of today creating this promblem.Murder has a stiffer sentence than any gun law.So common sense would lead you to more gunlaws would equal zero to fix this as these guys don't give a crap about any law.The federal goverment is full of toads as are most states.Comes down to we must armed ourselves and deal with it legal or not.
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how about the bad guys who get arrested after a armed robbery at the local mini mart or gas station? Beat them severely! Gang bangers blasting houses,, etc,, getting busted, spending a few years in jail to come out and do it some more
 
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lenny

Guest
bobsledder said:
More good people need guns to readily deal with bad people who will ALWAYS have guns.
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okay,,, BUT,,, you better buy them soon before you can't. Talk is going now and the president said there has been far to many incident and we know what that means
 
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ezra

Well-known member
lenny said:
okay,,, BUT,,, you better buy them soon before you can't. Talk is going now and the president said there has been far to many incident and we know what that means
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not going to happen! we all know u can not let a tragedy go to wast. But I hate to see the day they try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. it will make the riots in Egypt look like a block party. I really don't think the majority of the military is going to follow orders that would be handed down for that one. heck the more I think about it it may be just what we need drastic but the path we are on needs a drastic change of course.
I am no big gun guy I own 2 and don't think they have been shot in yrs. I can guarantee no politician will walk in to my home to take them heck guess the Mayan calendar could be right
 
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frnash

Active member
I don't really want to get into this here to any great extent, but just a brief note:

I noted that one of the participants on one of the Sunday morning talking heads shows today (Was it Sen. Schemer, er … Schumer of New York?) asked something about what possible need there was for anyone to have any kind of firearm in a school situation.

Well gee, in my high school days, I was in the Junior ROTC program, and was also on the rifle team. We had a rifle range in the high school basement. Yes, I brought my target rifle (.22 cal) to school fired it on the basement rifle range, and participated in every possible rifle match. But, strangely, I never once wandered the halls shooting up classmates, teachers, or anything of the like. Can you imagine?

Moving on to college, of course I was involved in the Senior ROTC program, and of course the Michigan Tech Army ROTC Rifle Team and the Michigan Tech Pistol Club as well, bringing my target rifle and two pistols with me. The rifle/pistol range was in the basement of the library annex, behind the library (now the Academic Office Building). Still, I never once wandered the campus buildings shooting up classmates, teachers, or anything of the like. Mind boggling, eh?

So what has changed in the fifty or so years since?

Our schools have become virtual prisons, with fences, gates, metal detectors — all but razor wire, and with the "inmates" locked in for the entire school day. What a wonderful learning environment! Heck, our ol' high school ROTC "gang" used to routinely duck off campus for lunch at a local deli about a block away.

As a life member of the NRA since high school, I have seen the battle with the "gun grabbers" then and since. Funny how they are almost uniformly the same ones that freed the psych cases from the mental institutions to wander the streets, and the same ones "molly-coddling" felons. Can you see anything wrong with this picture?

As the saying goes: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"
Focus people, deal with the nut cases, not the guns!

Note also how the present day school shootings and the like have been committed by whack jobs who typically off themselves in the process as well. Sounds a bit like a suicide bomber in Afghanistan? I see little difference. If the gun grabbers succeed in denying these whack jobs access to guns — along with law abiding citizens, will they be any happier when the next whack job simply emulates a suicide bomber with an "improvised explosive device" (IED) strapped to his body? These nut cases have typically been quite intelligent, if mentally warped. Trust me, it would be a relatively trivial exercise for almost any them to construct an IED.

With that said, I am done, and I will have nothing further to say on this subject.
 
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bumperboy

New member
I believe part of our problem is the movies,TV shows, and video games that de sensitize the population, just hit DO-Over and eveyone is alive again and you start over. Then the news reports all these teribble crimes, and the next individual who is on the edge mentally, plans how to top the last one.
 
gogebic_sledder

gogebic_sledder

Member
Our society always needs someone or something to blame, other than the bad guys. I talked to my nephew about what happened(8 yrs. old) I reassured him this would never happen to him but the smartest thing to do is play dead in a situation like this. Banning ar15's won't prevent anything. Evil is evil it finds a way.
 
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russholio

Well-known member
Nash gets my vote for President in 2016!

It's not a gun problem, or any kind of weapon problem. It's a people problem. The fact that somebody is willing to THINK about doing this, let alone carry it out, tells me that we have a much larger societal issue than the availability of firearms. But banning them would be the easy way out, so that's what politicians go for. Never mind that it won't work, it at least looks like they're doing something about the "problem" (i.e., treating the symptom and not the cause).
 
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anonomoose

New member
My brother-in-law is a school principal. He said that schools are sitting ducks for this type of idiot who is enraged.

Right now in Michigan, if ANYONE brings a firearm into school state law requires that you be expelled and barred from attending school for 6 months. If you are an employee, you will be fired.

Right now, a bill has been passed by both houses of the state to allow guns in schools and churches but has yet to be signed by the governor...

While many feel that students will be bringing guns to school to shoot their enemies or show off to other students, the real purpose of the law is so that the staff of that school or church can be trained to shoot in the event it becomes necessary.

Let's face it...had an armed and trained guard been with the principal of the school in Sandy Hook, it is entirely possible that this shooting would have ended in the hallway with a dead idiot...and the news media would still be using this as a means to end self defense measures.

Unless we change how society deals with these guys that are not "quite alright"....there is only one recourse, and that is to arm yourselves and defend your family all by yourself.

The school was the only places the guy could go and KNOW that there would be no self defense he could not over-come. He picked it out because of this flaw. Not so very long ago, there would have been a few shotguns and rifles stacked in the corner behind the door in the principals room. It was just the way it was!

I asked my Brother-in-Law if he would consider either carrying or at least having a weapon in his elementary school and he said...."In a heart beat.....".
 
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luvnsnow

New member
I think these Video games ( Halo, Call of duty, Etc) have a lot to do with it.These kids play for 12 hours a day and people don't think that affects there mental state.People kill people not guns.I never really heard of this happening when I was younger but we never had as realistic games as they do now.There has always been guns in the world but other changes in society like video games,social media which kids use for bullying are some of the things that have changed. I see a connection but most people don't. There are crazy people in every generation and guns and you never heard of stuff like this happening.
 
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lenny

Guest
Let's face it...had an armed and trained guard been with the principal of the school in Sandy Hook, it is entirely possible that this shooting would have ended in the hallway with a dead idiot...and the news media would still be using this as a means to end self defense measures.


​I have to disagree with you on this one. The odds certainly would have changed in favor of the school but no guarantee. Maybe the shooter cold sit across the street and pick them off in recess? Or while they are all entering or leaving the school as the day starts or ends.





 
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durphee

Well-known member
This is a good thread, heres my opinion. I'm a college instructor and we put 5,000 people through our doors everyday. There is no fool proof plan to stop a deranged, yet SMART, killer. We tried to get armed security at my institution and people went crazy. Its kind of odd that one thing people complained about was the cost! Taxpayers fund us so it was dropped, savings over safety.
Im a gun owner and all for owning guns. The system actually worked, since this killer was denied a gun several days before the shooting. The guns his mother had were legal and registered.
IMO, its really a discussion about mental illness. How to ID it, how to treat it, how to get preventative care, meds, etc... Be supportive parents, be active in their lives,listen to them, get them help if needed, but I know that won't prevent all problems. Maybe its a cultural problem with the US, since our violent crime is one of the largest in all developed nations. But also remember, violent crimes in the US have been dropping substantially within the last 20 years so hopefully we are trending in the right direction.
 
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durphee

Well-known member
good post lenny, we all make mistakes but we can change. Giving someone an opportunity is a great thing, they just need to grab on to that opportunity.
 
Admin

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, guys, I REALLY do not want to have to play the bad guy and pull this thread, but PLEASE be respectful of the rules of the board. :)

Thanks!

-John
 
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