Long live all four brands

[POLARISDAN]

It's funny how 4-strokes cornered the market in the outboard motor segment as of late. Yamaha decided commit to 4S and they marketed it as better in all aspects and people took the bait and their marketing dollars paid off as now a large portion of bass boats are sold with 4S and now people automatically think they are better and people believe it even though most have never ran one more than a couple hundred hours.
I'm not saying they are bad, but they are not cracked up to all the claims either. If someone wanted to keep an outboard for more than 1500 hours or so then 4S makes more sense, but for most bass boats running big water 2S is safer and just more fun to run...after all these are just toys for most of us or least should thought of as such....
2S is also not going away either....check out the patent pending files for 2S technology from different manufactures... which probably means they are putting dollars back towards this segment including the diesel segment in automotive. Bigger dollars to be made off of 2S as manufacturing is cheaper and now it's easier to pass emissions with newer 2S technology. I bet if you asked Yamaha now if they would have strayed away from 2S knowing what they know they might have 2nd guessed it.
Knowledge is a powerful thing....but often the truth cant overwhelm well meaning fiction and people get sucked in by the hype all the time.

not a good comparison..i have owned 2 stroke outboards and now have a 150 yami 4..omfg..its the greatest thing on earth..but i would never(at this point yet) own a 4 stroke sled..they have a long way to go for me to match the sound, speed(low end), weight, and overall performance i get on my 800..

but i have not ridden the newer ones so i suppose eventually they will be the cats a s s(not artic)

 

[POLARISDAN]

I was going to reply to Mr. Wong earlier, but thought why bother. WD - you are exactly correct of course. Major Corps. buy companies all the time for the market share alone, capacity only, assembly facilities, breakup value, or could even realize they made a mistake not to far down the road. Nothing definitive in this says they bought for AC to make it competitive, and to compete in snomo only.

and..although i dont care, who's to say they can solve the problems that obviously exist in cat..if it wasnt for the green loyalisyts, cat would already be dead

 

[whitedust]

not a good comparison..i have owned 2 stroke outboards and now have a 150 yami 4..omfg..its the greatest thing on earth..but i would never(at this point yet) own a 4 stroke sled..they have a long way to go for me to match the sound, speed(low end), weight, and overall performance i get on my 800..

but i have not ridden the newer ones so i suppose eventually they will be the cats a s s(not artic)

LOL....Different strokes for different folks. I have a 150 etec on my Ranger didn't want to fuss with 4s oil changes, lower unit oil gets changed every 3-5 years. Fogs it self with a push of a button, in winter stable gas, put in storage and done. The boat itself is much lighter to tow with etec engine and more responsive on the water. However on the snow only way for me to go is Yamaha 4s Apex gets me home everyday from big mile day trips and over 20,000 trouble free miles on 2 Apex. The 4 of us have never had any problems with mutltiple Apex , Venture and Viper. Again different strokes for different folks no one engine type right for everyone snow or water.

 

[whitedust]

and..although i dont care, who's to say they can solve the problems that obviously exist in cat..if it wasnt for the green loyalisyts, cat would already be dead

I agree no way to know what Textron will do with Cat and could downsize the heck out of the company and merge TRF facility with their other lines. Textron could very well break off snomos and sell to Yamaha or give Yamaha the boot and discontinue the OEM relationship. AC ,as is, had big problems so Textron will reorg for sure to make it profitable. From my biz experience this will be very painful for AC when downsized and consolidated. In my mind the big question is will Textron treat Yamaha as their most important customer or say screw the OEM biz we are in the enduser biz and cut off Yamaha and invest money in the AC brand only??? These are all high level decesions made with discussions with Yamaha so Textron can measure incoming revenue for short and long term management. Right now we just do NOT know what Textron intends to do with AC or Yamaha and both owe the buying public an explanation of their current and future direction. Nobody wants to buy an orphaned product at least I sure don't! IMO the Snomo Mags will be all over this question both from Textron and Yamaha as it is HUGE industry news that needs to be answered.

 

[G]

There is a very limited labor force in TRF. It is the same for Pol in Roseau. That is one of the reasons both have built new factories in other towns and states. Even as big as Textron is nobody spends 230 or whatever million without some kind of research and some kind of a plan. Right now a person can snowcheck a new SW and push the warranty out to 5 years. So what happens if they stop production in 2 years? It could be a real hairball. I don't care. I am buying a new SW anyway. Who knows - maybe it will be hugely collectable.

 

[old abe]

For anyone to think that Textron will in any way benefit Yami is wishful at best. Without the AC chassis, Yami can close the books on snowmobiles. Yami has put themselves where they are at. For me, I feel very mislead by the statements that Yamaha has made over the past few years about their "new snowmobiles" coming. If Yami would have wanted to, they would have built their own complete "new" snowmobile by now. And with Yamaha gone, it's one less competitor for Textron/AC. All the cards are in the hands of Textron, and they will play them their way. Textron/AC will stay in the snowmobile bus in my opinion, however it will take very good management to be successful. Cutting back on so many models should be the first move. The new 800 Ctec-2 will help.

 

[POLARISDAN]

LOL....Different strokes for different folks. I have a 150 etec on my Ranger didn't want to fuss with 4s oil changes, lower unit oil gets changed every 3-5 years. Fogs it self with a push of a button, in winter stable gas, put in storage and done. The boat itself is much lighter to tow with etec engine and more responsive on the water. However on the snow only way for me to go is Yamaha 4s Apex gets me home everyday from big mile day trips and over 20,000 trouble free miles on 2 Apex. The 4 of us have never had any problems with mutltiple Apex , Venture and Viper. Again different strokes for different folks no one engine type right for everyone snow or water.

i didnt know that etec outboard was a 2 stroke...i assumed it was a 4 because its newer...

 

[mezz]

For anyone to think that Textron will in any way benefit Yami is wishful at best. Without the AC chassis, Yami can close the books on snowmobiles. Yami has put themselves where they are at. For me, I feel very mislead by the statements that Yamaha has made over the past few years about their "new snowmobiles" coming. If Yami would have wanted to, they would have built their own complete "new" snowmobile by now. And with Yamaha gone, it's one less competitor for Textron/AC. All the cards are in the hands of Textron, and they will play them their way. Textron/AC will stay in the snowmobile bus in my opinion, however it will take very good management to be successful. Cutting back on so many models should be the first move. The new 800 Ctec-2 will help.

And BINGO was his name Oh!!!-Mezz

 

[snobuilder]

i didnt know that etec outboard was a 2 stroke...i assumed it was a 4 because its newer...

You never connected doo 2 stroke etec with evinrude/ Bombardier etec outboards?




Bomby bought up OMC and got the etec tech in 2001. first etec DI outboards were 2004's

 

[whitedust]

i didnt know that etec outboard was a 2 stroke...i assumed it was a 4 because its newer...

Not all ....Evinrude outboards the most mature 2s etec tech on the market way before snomo etec.

 

[ezra]

Another 10 years there will only be fat tire bikes on the trails.

not sure to many farmers are going to be having a bunch of growler drinking hipster dinks running around his property all yr . bank on that . not sure any of them have the commitment to get all the land owner contracts anyway

 

[ezra]

the world according to GARP....LOL....why do you all think TEXTRON bought CAT? for snicks and giggles....for speculation and hearsay? so mich banned it for a spell....do you all know why they banned it suddenly? and Indiana it juts became legal in 30 counties....and 20 states they are now allowed.....the FUTURE cometh at you full speed

http://www.world-of-atvs.com/street-quads.html

ATVs designed from the ground up to be street quads are growing in popularity in countries that have street legal 4 wheelers. We in the USA can only fantasize about street ATVs but that won't stop us from taking a look at them. These are some of the current offerings from around the world.


Street Legal Quad Report.

Did you know that in Europe the sight of a street legal quad is common? That's right - ATVs can go through a process called "homologation" that guarantees they meet certain standards established by the European Commission. Once they pass, these 4 wheelers can be licensed as "quadricycles".


heres UK for one...notice anything about the MANU.....any spark? YAMI + CAT...anything yet? need more?

pretty sure cat has been selling street legal quads in Europe for a long time now a decade ago I remember reading something about there street quads. I saw a few quads with street tires and lights last time I was in Italy . but 2 were 2 stroke deff not factory . pretty sure traffic and parking is the biggest draw .also when u get a love top on a quad it is not the same as when on a scooter.

 

[ezra]

I am in no way insinuating that AC would be kept "whole", I can see where a company such as Textron making this a proactive move to enhance the strengths of AC & utilize that to everyone's advantage. Textron, however, did not make this move towards street legal ATV's or SxS, (which I am sure most of you know already). I will however go as far as saying, Textron makes a hands down top quality SxS, & as a life long Cat enthusiast, they did fall short in this arena. Textron is & has been involved in a number of long time well known & currently manufactured products. In the end, its a good move for both parties.-Mezz

I can see Textron deff stopping production of all cat off road . using existing lines and motor plant to make bad boy and toss them straight in to existing dealer contracts .

 

[POLARISDAN]

You never connected doo 2 stroke etec with evinrude/ Bombardier etec outboards?




Bomby bought up OMC and got the etec tech in 2001. first etec DI outboards were 2004's

no..i knew they bought them, but i pay no attention to doo..didnt even know the etec sled wasnt 4 stroke

 

[snobuilder]

no..i knew they bought them, but i pay no attention to doo..didnt even know the etec sled wasnt 4 stroke

That is interesting.

 

[old abe]

not sure to many farmers are going to be having a bunch of growler drinking hipster dinks running around his property all yr . bank on that . not sure any of them have the commitment to get all the land owner contracts anyway

You hit it out of the park on this ezra!!! That would be a bad mix for sure.

 

[Tracker]

I think I found out what they goin ta do....they want to make ELECTRIC ARCTIC CATS as well as the ones currently offered with engines....and the road legal market also....good things cometh this way...take notes on this sentence

Along with continuing to build and sell the electric hunting rigs, Bad Boy is expanding big time into the UTV market with several new machines over the next few years.

http://www.utvdriver.com/2016-bad-boy-off-road-stampede-900-review


this is why

 

[old abe]

Electric Ranger market for Polaris is far greater than I would have ever thought. There is a place for it, and it will become larger as we go forward. Batteries getting better by the day it seems. AC/ORV segment will be first to be reorganized imo.

 

[snobuilder]

Just checked out a few bad boy dealers online....thought they were some low cost 3rd world economy labor grade built units....apparently not. You can buy name brand toys for less....