Mad as a wet hen .... Or worse

As like alot of people I just cant believe how the forecasters can be so off so often. I can understand how that storm shifted but what happened with all the lake effect we were suppose to get all this week? We cancelled for this past weekend and changed all vacations around at work for this coming weekend starting Sat. and going til Wed. Looks like we might as well just work all the time and forget it .Im so fricken mad I just dont know who to blame ,hit , holler at or what to do to avoid going to jail. I know there are alot of other people upset to but I just cant take it anymore.Im keeping vacation days as planned cuz I can only carry 5 days over to next year and hope for the best. Sorry for venting..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 

bonnevier

Member
Trying to plan sledding vacations for early december is a crap shoot...unless you are going west to the mountains. Best to roll over the time to 2013 and plan plenty of trips for Jan/Feb.
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
Trying to plan sledding vacations for early december is a crap shoot...unless you are going west to the mountains. Best to roll over the time to 2013 and plan plenty of trips for Jan/Feb.

Agreed. This is how we ended up in the snowies last year. No snow in Wisconsin/UP, so we trailed out there. Had a great time. Cost wasn't that much different, since the miles don't add up nearly as much when you are riding in powder so that more than made up for the extra gas in the van. I'm not a global warming guy, but it sure doesn't seem like you can count on snow as much anymore, so it seems like you need to be willing to chase it to enjoy it.
 
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ezra

Well-known member
let me tell U cant always count on west we canceled last yrs new yrs trip to CO.and this yrs CO new yrs is looking to be moving to WY I just hope they start getting more the snow depth stations are not looking great,
on a side note I am happy about the weather shift I got 13. ABOUT TIME!2x more than all last winter combined
 

YooprYami

New member
its tough bitching about planning trips in mid december... anyone who has been around more than a year knows its a roll of the dice if theres snow or not. I would recommend not bitching and instead planning your trips later in the season. That being said im headed up this next weekend too. we may trailer over to MN or somewhere else though
 

ezra

Well-known member
I cant even count the yrs me and the wife took off x mass night after family stress obligations.
got to longville MN nice snow quick ride to the bar to let the cabin warm up.
wake up next AM to pouring rain.
almost like a bad joke it happened so many times.
we no longer plan on the cabin xmass night,
this yr we are heading to Hendrix SD day after Xmass with sleds in tow.
so word of advice if planing on ridding eastern SD xmass weekend move your trip cuz I can almost guarantee Rain
 

Modman440

New member
FIve been ridding the u.p for 10 years and it is rare to get great riding in december. Or be able to plan a vacation for riding if i plan on december riding i go west for early pow. My 2 cents is wait till jan to plan a vacation snow is more consistent . Swamps are almost always frozen trails have a good base. Just way less risky. I have my sled in my truck right now but i make no plans or vacations.i wait till its dumping snow and when the system is halfway through i call my buddies tell them im rolling out and we convoy to the deepest we can find. Weve been on our way to the u.p and have stopped in gaylord because its snowin like all ****. I really only do that in december because there is no guarantee who will have great snow. As of right now we may roll to minn or wis. But maybe paradise its a break in trip for a buddy with a new procross so snow dont have to be record breaking
 

Pizza Man

New member
I first year we went to the U.P. was the winter of 78-79, the big snow year. We got to the Whitehouse in Mohawk and there was around 100 inches on the ground.
The next day we tried to go to Copper Harbor and had snow coming over the windshields.
Met a groomer with a V plow on it. The DNR was doing the grooming back then.
Told us we would never make it on the trails so we should take Hwy 41.
We did and made it up and back.
The next day, we went rode south and got to the South Range snowmobile club house. Rode from there down the trail to the Fire steel bridge and went back to Mohawk.
On Sat we rode the Mohawk area and when we left on Sunday, they had over 125 inches.
The Totem Pole in Calumet ? shows the total depth for that winter.
 

doospunk

Active member
Seriously? It's the weather guys fault? You may as well start predicting for yourself, so you don't need to count on others. How can anyone be 100% accurate 100% of the time? The storm hit, but fell short by about 150 miles south, and unfortunately, we don't get LES down here. Predicting mother nature has to be one of the most difficult things around. I'm sure there's other things you can think of that are much worse than a "missed" snow storm. If not......, then I'd like to have your issues.
 
I understand planning in Dec. is a a crap shoot but still doesnt mean I cant be upset if I want to be,lol. and Doospunk Im not bitching at the weather guys so mind to ur self.
 

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
No problem venting pwolfy2003. I got to vent about some knuckleheads that called me out on stuff I was either not wrong about or had even been wrong yet.

I think there is some very good advice given though and that is to not put too much faith in having reliable snow up this way in December. It happens some years and in other not. There are quite a few smaller businesses up here that do not even open their doors until the day after Christmas because the snow and winter tourism is so iffy and slow until then.

This will by my 13th year living up here and most have seen enough snow to ride by the 2nd or 3rd week of Dec, but it can be hit and miss.

As for the predictions. I understand that the storm being off by 150 miles can seem like a big deal, but the map below illustrates the general area that we need to consider for the weather conditions for the Midwest.
nabase.jpg
Most folks think that what happens in a specific area is controlled by the conditions in that specific area. Quite the opposite actually. Events in places like Alaska can have an impact on what happens in the southern Midwest or even the SE US. So a forecast for the Midwest can hinge on event happening anywhere within that map area and sometimes even further outside those parameters.

Look at that map and then look at the difference between where the storm hit and where it was forecasted to hit and that 150 miles becomes very small (at least in my opinion!). As for the lake effect, it is falling, but not at the pace once thought. The track of Sunday's low greatly reduced the LES we were to get yesterday. The clipper system for later today through tomorrow is going to pass about 100 miles further north than initially thought. That is making a big difference in the snow amounts, with the 2-5" of system snow to fall from the north shore of Superior north, rather than over the Northwoods and the further north track of that clipper also lowers the LES considerably.

I am not trying to cop out of the blown forecast. They happen and no one is more upset about them than me when they to, believe me! I am just trying to lend some perspective as to what I deal with as far as forecasting that might help you better understand what I am up against when I do a forecast to help make a little more sense of why a forecast does not pan out as predicted.

-John
 

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Venting is allowed, not a problem but remember it's early....The Snowmobile Season in the upper midwest is primarily January and February, anything in December and March should be considered a bonus. Some years we have it, frequently we don't and the lakes and swamps have to freeze before the groomers can come out.

One thing I've picked up on this year is that almost all forecasters are predicting Average to Above Average Snows this year. An "Average" Winter sounds pretty darn good compared to last year. I also agree that you have to be flexible when scheduling trips, job and spouse permitting, be ready to go when it snows.
 

durphee

Well-known member
right on gary, i don't recall ever saying "average" would be great but I will take average every year!
 

mjkaliszak

New member
It's all part of " chasing the snow ".... In my humble opinion, anything can happen, I actually ended up in the WUP many years ago due to the rapid dumping of snow and John's report. We were scheduled to go somewhere in the Central / Eastern up and everything had melted down. The day we were leaving a report came out of 15" falling around L-Gogebic. We literally were changing our accomodations minutes before we jumped in the rig to leave. Not much more frustrating than that. ( other than a lack of snow anywhere !) This season is starting out weak... I will admit but there are few places better than this forum when calculating where to ride. Getting around work vacation schedules is another story. I try to work during the summer when most people take their vacations and then come winter time set my boss up for being flexable. Seems I'm always changing plans this time of year....
 

mezz

Well-known member
I have seen winters here in the Keweenaw that did not actually hit & stay until New Years Eve! December is definetly a roll of the dice. At this time of year, every snow loving individual is chomping hard at the bit to get out & play. All I can say is chill, take a deep breath & exhale, enjoy the anticipation of what is yet to come, it alway's does. Think of it as a prolonged Christmas Eve back when you were a kid, it's all good in the end. Is it time to open presents yet?!?!?!:cool:-Mezz
 

bigvin

New member
All "I" know,.... is that I am praying
that JOHNS forecast for this weekend holds
true and NOT the local weather guys.
With 4 to 8 possible and a good 5 on the ground
here locally,.... the trails open on the 15th and
ANYTHING BEFORE Christmas would be a Awesome
Christmas gift!
Not holding my breath,... but hoping.
:)
 

Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
A little something I do on the weekends, when John is enjoying his family time, is to keep reading the forecast discussion by the NWS in Marquette, not the actual forecast, but their thoughts about what the models are saying may happen. It at least gives me a litte insight to what is going on. They usually go out 5-7 days.
 
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