I love the Tomahawk area, and I agree that snowmobiling doesn't keep YOUR area alive, but I can't help but wonder...what would happen up there if the Harley Plants closed?
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Mercer Snow Goers ask for everybody off trails tonight
- Thread starter goingnorth
- Start date
WorkHardPlayHrd
Active member
dang,...yur generalizating wet kiss was going so well right until the bold....LOL
Right back at you!
Since when did this page become so darn negitive!? Heck this one thread turned into nothing but finger pointing or name calling.....
MOD
Hi Mod,
I think when a new person enters any chatroom and upsets it there will be fireworks, some newbies do it just to get a rise.
Or, we don't know that person either. Maybe they were sarcastic?
Bear
Close the trails and I will respect that. If their open I will ride when I want! I don't cross un marked lakes. And the sport is not dying
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Calling me names is real nice. You sound like a really stand up guy
Your words, "I'll ride when I want to ride" are of ignorance, arrogance, etc. Call it how I see it. I was being polite saying hope your just being a dickhead for a rise on JD.
G
G
Guest
Doesn't matter anymore. Mercer is in good shape again.
Doesn't matter anymore. Mercer is in good shape again.
Good news, not fake!
And the sport is not dying
You really have no idea how fragile the remaining trail system is. I frequently ride out of Bessemer MI. We lost the old rail grade heading east (due to riding off-trail), and now we have a huge amount of traffic using a narrow, twisty trail through the ski hills. It takes a lot longer, and the trail is usually rough and bare in places. Too many riders for that type of trail, since it connects the entire Hurley area to the UP. If we lose the new trail for the same issue, we will be cut off (and a drunk snowmobiler hit a pedestrian there last season). We completely lost 11 North to the Porcupines. 11 South to Winchester has been closed more than open for the last decade, due to a previous conflict between loggers and snowmobilers. They close it while logging now, which is most of the time. Trail 160 (up to Superior) is in serious danger of being closed, due to people going off-trail. Trail 17 (south to Mercer) has had numerous re-routes over the years, due to landowner issues. It wouldn't take much more to lose that trail entirely, and it's a major route. All of this is in just one small area. There is a trail about one mile from my house that we lost after a fatal accident in a farm field. The owner didn't have any liability in it, but he didn't like people dying on his land, so we lost the trail. We have countless other re-routes in the last 20 years, due to angry landowners. Eventually there is nowhere to re-route. These issues are happening all over, and it seems to be getting worse.
Sounds like a overload of total irresponsibility? Seems as the way of doing things now days?
There are definitely a lot of irresponsible riders who don't care about the trouble they cause. But it's probably aggravated by the number of city folk who move out to the country these days, and really HATE snowmobilers. They thought everything would be peaceful out of the city, and now they have loud snowmobiles, and gunshots, and dirt bikes/ATVs, etc., so they love to complain about them. Even if they consent to a trail across their land, it doesn't take much to lose it. Somebody runs over their young trees or goes by with loud pipes at 3 AM, and it's no more trail.
G
G
Guest
Damage is 100% correct. It will come to the point where it will just take one more landowner to cut off many miles of trails. And it isn't just Mich. It is the same in Wisc. In the 30 plus years I have been going there many many re-routes have had to be figured out. Mostly for the same reasons. Tresspassing is the biggie. And yes there are residents that do not think your aftermarket pipes are the bee's knees. It is also the same in Minn. Sledders are their own worst enemy.
Right now I can ride out my back door and ride 2 and 1/2 miles to a groomed trail. I can stay on a groomed trail all the way through Minn to Wisc and go all the way to and through Mich legally on a groomed trail. I have my choice of routes through each state. Right now there are many options. It is this way because of a lot of hard work by a lot of people in all these states that work with the landowners and do the signing and the brushing and all of the work that so many take for granted. It is a tremendous amount of work that is largely donated volunteer help.
I have been riding for 55 years. I know how good I / We have it right now. I do not appreciate people poo pooing issues that could screw everything up. Sorry for being Grumpy.
Right now I can ride out my back door and ride 2 and 1/2 miles to a groomed trail. I can stay on a groomed trail all the way through Minn to Wisc and go all the way to and through Mich legally on a groomed trail. I have my choice of routes through each state. Right now there are many options. It is this way because of a lot of hard work by a lot of people in all these states that work with the landowners and do the signing and the brushing and all of the work that so many take for granted. It is a tremendous amount of work that is largely donated volunteer help.
I have been riding for 55 years. I know how good I / We have it right now. I do not appreciate people poo pooing issues that could screw everything up. Sorry for being Grumpy.
You really have no idea how fragile the remaining trail system is. I frequently ride out of Bessemer MI. We lost the old rail grade heading east (due to riding off-trail), and now we have a huge amount of traffic using a narrow, twisty trail through the ski hills. It takes a lot longer, and the trail is usually rough and bare in places. Too many riders for that type of trail, since it connects the entire Hurley area to the UP. If we lose the new trail for the same issue, we will be cut off (and a drunk snowmobiler hit a pedestrian there last season). We completely lost 11 North to the Porcupines. 11 South to Winchester has been closed more than open for the last decade, due to a previous conflict between loggers and snowmobilers. They close it while logging now, which is most of the time. Trail 160 (up to Superior) is in serious danger of being closed, due to people going off-trail. Trail 17 (south to Mercer) has had numerous re-routes over the years, due to landowner issues. It wouldn't take much more to lose that trail entirely, and it's a major route. All of this is in just one small area. There is a trail about one mile from my house that we lost after a fatal accident in a farm field. The owner didn't have any liability in it, but he didn't like people dying on his land, so we lost the trail. We have countless other re-routes in the last 20 years, due to angry landowners. Eventually there is nowhere to re-route. These issues are happening all over, and it seems to be getting worse.
Just out of curiosity, is the local club out of Bessemer working as a group to find new routes for trails? They seem to have lost many but are they working on any plans for new routes? I'm sure some of it was off trail riding but a lot of the closure I see have more to do with new land owners not wanting the trails on the property or more year round residents as opposed to people who only stayed during the summer months.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I also have seen clubs in my area not go about working with land owners the right way. They just assume they will have the trail as opposed to asking in advance. This pisses landowners off just as much as off trail riding. One example was always asking a land owner on December 1st if they can cross his land again. He felt obligated to say yes at the last minute and just wished the club would come around in advance of the season to ask permission. I guess my point is I see a lot of clubs doing business the way they always have the last 20 years and it might be time to change things up a bit.
Just out of curiosity, is the local club out of Bessemer working as a group to find new routes for trails? They seem to have lost many but are they working on any plans for new routes? I'm sure some of it was off trail riding but a lot of the closure I see have more to do with new land owners not wanting the trails on the property or more year round residents as opposed to people who only stayed during the summer months.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I also have seen clubs in my area not go about working with land owners the right way. They just assume they will have the trail as opposed to asking in advance. This pisses landowners off just as much as off trail riding. One example was always asking a land owner on December 1st if they can cross his land again. He felt obligated to say yes at the last minute and just wished the club would come around in advance of the season to ask permission. I guess my point is I see a lot of clubs doing business the way they always have the last 20 years and it might be time to change things up a bit.
Bessemer is GRTA, and they work very hard to keep landowners happy. None of it is the fault of the clubs. The most critical loss (of all those mentioned) was the trail 2 rail grade, and it was all from people going off-trail and loud pipes. 11 South was another big loss, because it was a really nice trail at one time (it has a lot of re-routed trail now, when it's open). I don't even care that much about 11 North, because it usually sucked anyways (low areas that didn't like to freeze, couldn't be groomed early season). 160 is on really thin ice with landowners (it cuts through some farms on the southern part), and it would be a huge loss just because it's such a nice and scenic trail (doesn't go anywhere special). 17 to Mercer would be another huge loss, not just for sledders but for all the businesses that depend on it.
Hi Mod,
I think when a new person enters any chatroom and upsets it there will be fireworks, some newbies do it just to get a rise.
Or, we don't know that person either. Maybe they were sarcastic?
Bear
Yea ive been around for a few years now lol only a few but this year seems to be the worst. And if its sarcasm I dont think most people will see it as such at least not typed hard to differ sarcasm from being serious. Unless its one of us regulars.
MOD
Bessemer is GRTA, and they work very hard to keep landowners happy. None of it is the fault of the clubs. The most critical loss (of all those mentioned) was the trail 2 rail grade, and it was all from people going off-trail and loud pipes. 11 South was another big loss, because it was a really nice trail at one time (it has a lot of re-routed trail now, when it's open). I don't even care that much about 11 North, because it usually sucked anyways (low areas that didn't like to freeze, couldn't be groomed early season). 160 is on really thin ice with landowners (it cuts through some farms on the southern part), and it would be a huge loss just because it's such a nice and scenic trail (doesn't go anywhere special). 17 to Mercer would be another huge loss, not just for sledders but for all the businesses that depend on it.
You didn't really answer my question about working on new trail options? Also, to say NONE of this is the clubs fault is just plain wrong. The club no doubt shares some responsibility in this matter. The club manages this trail system and in some ways the people that ride it.
You didn't really answer my question about working on new trail options? Also, to say NONE of this is the clubs fault is just plain wrong. The club no doubt shares some responsibility in this matter. The club manages this trail system and in some ways the people that ride it.
Just another FIB thinking he knows everything... Do you know what it takes to just re-route a trail? I am in the middle of it right now. Been working on it for 2 years. If I don't get it done we loose a major artery to our trail system. Major. Just this fall the land I need to cross for the re-route the guy dies and a deep pocket city guy buys it as an investment. He won't even return a phone call. Had a survey done and locks on the gates. Two years wasted. Now what should I do? Just find a different route you say. Easy you say. Just do it you say!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRR Ignorant comments like yours really piss me off. Maybe if know it all chi town punks would come up and see what it takes they wouldn't eat their shoes so often!!
Just another FIB thinking he knows everything... Do you know what it takes to just re-route a trail? I am in the middle of it right now. Been working on it for 2 years. If I don't get it done we loose a major artery to our trail system. Major. Just this fall the land I need to cross for the re-route the guy dies and a deep pocket city guy buys it as an investment. He won't even return a phone call. Had a survey done and locks on the gates. Two years wasted. Now what should I do? Just find a different route you say. Easy you say. Just do it you say!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRR Ignorant comments like yours really piss me off. Maybe if know it all chi town punks would come up and see what it takes they wouldn't eat their shoes so often!!
I'm sorry but when did I say I knew the answer or solution? I just asked a question. And when it wasn't answered I asked again.
If Bessemer is losing all of the trails mentioned by DAMAGE and you don't think the local club bears some responsibility then people like you are part of the problem. Its always someone else fault right......
I'm sorry but when did I say I knew the answer or solution? I just asked a question. And when it wasn't answered I asked again.
If Bessemer is losing all of the trails mentioned by DAMAGE and you don't think the local club bears some responsibility then people like you are part of the problem. Its always someone else fault right......
Thanks for all you do to help the cause. You are an asset. All us club members that bust *** and work all year to keep the things you take for granted open thank you!! How are your trails in Illinois? What club do you belong to?? Howmany miles of trails do you work on?? Where do you ride? Typical fib is what you sound like.