Price of Michigan trail permit last year?

[caged_beagle]

No I am not a holiday rider. penalize? What if no one rode the trails or the trails were closed? I think you have it backwards. Without the trail riders there would be no trail. businesses would be gone and no revenue for anyone.

Businesses are still there the other 9 months a year that YOU aren't. I suppose you would suggest that the tavern owners, Ma & Pop motel proprietors and other businesses that make their already slim living from tourists should kick in this "tax" for boaters, fishermen, hunters, scenic visitors, bird watchers, fall color seekers, motorcyclists.....oh I suppose the list goes on.

Jeff, write the White House with this plan. It sounds like a subsidy that might be right up the current administrations alley being another way to take money out of the pocket of the private small business owner.

__________________________

 

[lenny]

nobody can tell somebody what is right or wrong for others concerning spending money on a trail permit. If the increase becomes a burden for some than the proper response would be to follow your conviction and not purchase one. If you are okay with the increase than do as you see fit. I personally dislike the increase as any other increase in my life but than again I don't have a clue where it goes or if it's squandered. I just make a decision if I want to pay or not and than grumble as I hand my cash over, I admit it, I do! It really sucks that all costs are up and income is down. This is a real issue for many people including myself but if I wanna ride I gotta pay. Just to make me feel better I sometimes wait to buy them and just ride off trail fully knowing I stuck it to them for a few miles.

 

[jeff]

WOW talk about blowing something WAY out of proportion. I was simply asking and or suggesting. I didnt say it was to be a law. I too can hop on the trail 50 yards from my house here in WI, so yes I can understand your stand point. However you have to see my point only being able to ride a few times a year in MI and having the price climb higher .

 

[xsledder]

WOW talk about blowing something WAY out of proportion. I was simply asking and or suggesting. I didnt say it was to be a law. I too can hop on the trail 50 yards from my house here in WI, so yes I can understand your stand point. However you have to see my point only being able to ride a few times a year in MI and having the price climb higher .

Jeff, they won't understand your point. As caged_beagle typed ..."IS $45 REALLY A DEAL BREAKER????????? I DON'T GET IT!" However, there are others that have the same viewpoint as you, including me. I can't justify the cost for riding one weekend in the UP when riding in Wisconsin doesn't cost me more then the State's registration. I personally find the tight twisty Vilas and Iron County trails more fun then the throttle to the bar UP trails.

 

[Firecatguy]

Just my observation but with the low\bad snow years that we just had might not been the best timing to raise the fee....IMO.......

 

[polarisrider1]

Just my observation but with the low\bad snow years that we just had might not been the best timing to raise the fee....IMO.......

I agree with you Pat , but the increases were set several years back when things were going good for all of us. Anything that gets set by our monsterous beauracracy is about imposible to change once put in place. (whole different issue). Several years ago (suspect 5-6yrs.or more) I was sent a letter asking my opinion and a vote as to changes in the permit structure. This was sent out to the members of MSA (the organized voice of snowmobiling in MI). It was overwhelmingly approved that the active snowmobiling public (MSA members) wanted the increase for better trails. These increases have been in the works for sometime and you have to admit are being used quite well to improve the trail system. I can see that "out of staters" may be less informed as to all this. So the best solution for all of you who are out of the snowmobile information loop and want true changes for the betterment of our Sport is to join MSA and your local snowmobile club. www.msasnow.org

 

[sixball]

As long as the money stays in the snowmobiling funds I don't mind. You never know the snow conditions till the year is over so you can't use it for permit pricing.

 

[dcsnomo]

where does all the money from state funding go dont the clubs get paid so much per mile to groom like wi? you all must be riding diff trails then I do when I come up north. They were never the best in fact any and all trails seemed to be terrible any time after one oclock in the afternoon. And before that they were never that GREAT. Just my experience. If they need to create more revenue they should charge the buisnesses that profit from the trail systems.

Jeff-
Let me give you a little primer on taxes and fees. If the gov't taxes the local business then you are asking the local business and local citizens, as well as tourists, to pay a local tax out of local funds that are already in the local economy. This is regardless of whether or not the business or citizen receives any benefit from the service provided. This is a regressive tax, as it takes money OUT of the local economy.

A user fee, like an out of state trail permit, allows the gov't to tax the direct user of the service. Additionally, by making it an out of state tax, you are only taxing the direct user of the service that is out of state, which means the money is coming from outside the local economy. It is new money, and goes IN to the local economy rather than OUT of the local economy.

Any time I can get out of state money to help defray the infrastructure cost of my tourism industry that is a good thing.

Now, you will say, "Oh, but the business can raise their prices to cover the tax", but then you would complain about the cost of your cheeseburger, gas, beer, strudel, pasty, and drive belt, and you would generally feel gouged. Also, the larger properties could absorb some or all of the tax and drive smaller properties out of business.

This is an amusement park admission, not a local tax.

 

[whitedust]

I not convinced the state goverment or WI DNR is credible. They both took credit for decrease in WI trail deaths due to the night time 55MPH trail speed limit when there was little or no sleddin after mid Feb. Yes good press for them but not real considering the lack of time on WI trails. I'm ok with night time WI 55MPH trail speed limit I slow down at night anyway. Just saying if DNR & other state agencies say something it may or may not be true per their track record of BS. As Lenny said does the permit money really get where it needs to go? Maybe ......maybe not?

 

[whitedust]

Also some of you have been a bit hard on Jeff. I do agree with Jeff some people may not come to UP on busy weekends if trails are trashed. Then any amount of money seems too much for a permit for bad trail conditions & it does happen. Jeff does have a point for limited trail use & bang the buck for his MI permit.

 

[Hoosier]

Jeff-
Let me give you a little primer on taxes and fees. If the gov't taxes the local business then you are asking the local business and local citizens, as well as tourists, to pay a local tax out of local funds that are already in the local economy. This is regardless of whether or not the business or citizen receives any benefit from the service provided. This is a regressive tax, as it takes money OUT of the local economy.

A user fee, like an out of state trail permit, allows the gov't to tax the direct user of the service. Additionally, by making it an out of state tax, you are only taxing the direct user of the service that is out of state, which means the money is coming from outside the local economy. It is new money, and goes IN to the local economy rather than OUT of the local economy.

Any time I can get out of state money to help defray the infrastructure cost of my tourism industry that is a good thing.

Now, you will say, "Oh, but the business can raise their prices to cover the tax", but then you would complain about the cost of your cheeseburger, gas, beer, strudel, pasty, and drive belt, and you would generally feel gouged. Also, the larger properties could absorb some or all of the tax and drive smaller properties out of business.

This is an amusement park admission, not a local tax.

Good explanation. Well-stated. User fee vs. indirect tax. If the MSA wasn't involved, I would be very skeptical about the $45; however, since they are, I feel that the vast majority of it is directly going to improve both the current and long-term health of the snowmobile trail system. Also, as I cannot volunteer any time to the trail system, I don't see how I could complain about the fee. I am also a MSA member, and I think they are a quality organization.

 

[Hoosier]

I not convinced the state goverment or WI DNR is credible. They both took credit for decrease in WI trail deaths due to the night time 55MPH trail speed limit when there was little or no sleddin after mid Feb. Yes good press for them but not real considering the lack of time on WI trails. I'm ok with night time WI 55MPH trail speed limit I slow down at night anyway. Just saying if DNR & other state agencies say something it may or may not be true per their track record of BS. As Lenny said does the permit money really get where it needs to go? Maybe ......maybe not?

I don't know how they took credit for it. If they bragged that it is due to their efforts that is one thing. But if they just publicized the results, I think that is a good thing. As far as does the the permit money go where it needs to, I think the MSA has a good handle on the use of the funds. If they were not involved (i.e., if the DNR handled it exclusively), that would be a different story.

 

[whitedust]

I don't know how they took credit for it. If they bragged that it is due to their efforts that is one thing. But if they just publicized the results, I think that is a good thing. As far as does the the permit money go where it needs to, I think the MSA has a good handle on the use of the funds. If they were not involved (i.e., if the DNR handled it exclusively), that would be a different story.

Yep they bragged on it in newspapers & TV & the non snowmobiling public has no clue so how it used to go in WI. Walker did cut SART this year so getting smarter on how money is spent on snowmobling in WI. If MSA gets the money where it gets best bang for the buck that is a very good thing! Sorry but I just down't trust these type of organizations but just me I don't speak for others. I need to see it work first then measure results then I would be the 1st one to praise them. To me Fed & State government performances have been abysmal & very wasteful with our money. Again just my opinion. Show me I'm from MO. lol

 

[GREENBIRD]

can you get a non resident trail permit on line ahead of time or do i have to wait till i get up there

 

[Skylar]

I just read in one of the sled mags, that to ride in Vermont, a non resident trail permit is $95. I guess $45 isn't to bad eh?

 

[dekx]

agree

 

[xsledder]

I just read in one of the sled mags, that to ride in Vermont, a non resident trail permit is $95. I guess $45 isn't to bad eh?

I would agree and I, personally, don't see a need to ride in Vermont either so their not going to get my money. Now, I would pay the out of state trail permit to ride in the Black Hills. That is because it offers me something unique.

 

[Team Elkhorn]

can you get a non resident trail permit on line ahead of time or do i have to wait till i get up there

Greenbird, I see your in Racine, I buy my UP stickers at the Yamaha dealer in Twin Lakes WI. Call ahead though, they dont get them in till later in December, I think.

Also, I think I posted this last time this came up. Some of our friends we ride with, mentioned while we where planning snowmobile trips, that they preferred to stay in Wisconsin if possible to save a little money as everyone is a little tight budget wise. So we may not get UP stickers if its just the wife and I riding up there.

 

[nickels]

Since were on the MI permit topic. Does anyone remember what year they started the permits? I think its mid 90's but not positive. We were talking about how much better the trails have gotten over the years. I have no problem paying the permit compared to the trail conditions before the permit was in place.

 

[Team Elkhorn]

1995, I have one stuck on my tool box from every year since.