Reserving a Lightening tonight.

[1fujifilm]

Say fuji, with all your wheeling and dealing, on toys, hot rods, and trucks, how does the added cost off your diesel engine at purchase, and the added cost of diesel vs gas, pencil out for you? I'm curious as a very good friend of mine also purchased a GMC 3.0 Duramax diesel pickup. He has had it long enough to say that his does not workout economicly to any savings when all costs are considered? Please, when able give your economic outcome. I am well aware of your being in the loop on that kind of owner costs.

Great question; some guys pencil in the break even at X miles.
Me, I'll dump it at 10 months and get all of the upcharge back. It's less than 2k more than a 5.3. For some reason GMC dropped the cost of the 3.0 diesel by $1,500 about a year ago making it a bargain.

I'm a diesel virgin but the torque is fun, just remember to upshift when passing as the hp drops off quick.
Picked up a 21 Elevation 4x4 for 45.8k

I actually floated ordering the same truck and asking the dealer to take this one on trade in 3-4 months and doing an even trade. As long as GMC still has $5k in rebates, demand is frantic, and values are elevated it should work for us both.

Bear

 

[buddah2]

...Astronaut Alan B. Shepard made the first U.S. piloted spaceflight in the Mercury Freedom 7 spacecraft on May 5, 1961. A mere 117 years, 5 months, 5 days (42891 days) after that first Wright flight.

???

You fail math or sumptin'?

 

[garageguy]

He only knows proper English and spelling.Math is not his thing.

 

[old abe]

Great question; some guys pencil in the break even at X miles.
Me, I'll dump it at 10 months and get all of the upcharge back. It's less than 2k more than a 5.3. For some reason GMC dropped the cost of the 3.0 diesel by $1,500 about a year ago making it a bargain.

I'm a diesel virgin but the torque is fun, just remember to upshift when passing as the hp drops off quick.
Picked up a 21 Elevation 4x4 for 45.8k

I actually floated ordering the same truck and asking the dealer to take this one on trade in 3-4 months and doing an even trade. As long as GMC still has $5k in rebates, demand is frantic, and values are elevated it should work for us both.

Bear

For some reason GM dropped the price on the diesel, eh? Perhaps it is that their market research told them it would not sell with out the discount, eh! And at that time, gas was priced at a good discount in price to diesel fuel at the pump! It has been a long time since Road diesel is only $0.09 more in price than gas at the pump. This close price difference makes the diesels economics workout better also! I can remember when diesel sold for $0.04, $0.05 per gallon. Yeah, well, I am that old, eh! My father sold all of our gas tractors and replaced them with diesels, as the diesels would easily pay for themselves on fuel costs alone. Plus being more durable, and better pulling power, TORQUE! The torque curve on your "baby" Duramax diesel is dismal at best for a diesel.

 

[frnash]

???
You fail math or sumptin'?

He only knows proper English and spelling.Math is not his thing.

Oh sheet! That'll teach me to be lazy and in my haste use someone else's date calculator without verifying the result! (Date entry f*up.)!

"Astronaut Alan B. Shepard made the first U.S. piloted spaceflight in the Mercury Freedom 7 spacecraft on May 5, 1961. A mere 57 years, 4 months, 19 days (20959 days) after that first Wright flight."

There, izzat better?

 

[gary_in_neenah]

...and eight years and 2 months later....Neil & Buzz were on the Moon.

I think it's safe to say that this thread has officially been high jacked. We've gone from the New F150... to Kitty Hawk... to Tranquility Base... in the span of 65 posts.​

That's some Time-travel right there folks!​

​

 

[Tracker]

I can answer some of the battery issues you guys are concerned about...I have a mkz hybrid...you don't plug it in so 10x better than all electric ones IMO and no extra pollution with power plants...it has 263,000 miles and going strong and batteries being uncharged and recharged hourly for 11 years so far don't effect it at all...so that's internet BS IMO...and everyone is always...OMG they cost so much to replace and have to replace often...both untrue AGAIN...you can buy my batteries at advanced auto for 2500 bucks...not 10 grand you always hear...and that might b every 15 years or more...by then thd car will b more worn out than any battery....can go 700 miles on one tank of gas which is 3 times more than most cars can and its only 17 gallons....my 2019 mkz can go 600 miles on 14 gallons...so that's 800+ on a cars tank size which regular cars can't even come close....the gas motor is only on half the time so I never had any repairs...none...no water pump...no belt....no exhaust....no nothing....so saving the planet you definitely are if your worried about that which I aint....and on and on and on....get one IMO...electric truck would b sweet...but one that regenerates instead of plugging in would be the best option...enjoy your truck...I love my hybrids...luxurious...and fast also

 

[whitedust]

I can answer some of the battery issues you guys are concerned about...I have a mkz hybrid...you don't plug it in so 10x better than all electric ones IMO and no extra pollution with power plants...it has 263,000 miles and going strong and batteries being uncharged and recharged hourly for 11 years so far don't effect it at all...so that's internet BS IMO...and everyone is always...OMG they cost so much to replace and have to replace often...both untrue AGAIN...you can buy my batteries at advanced auto for 2500 bucks...not 10 grand you always hear...and that might b every 15 years or more...by then thd car will b more worn out than any battery....can go 700 miles on one tank of gas which is 3 times more than most cars can and its only 17 gallons....my 2019 mkz can go 600 miles on 14 gallons...so that's 800+ on a cars tank size which regular cars can't even come close....the gas motor is only on half the time so I never had any repairs...none...no water pump...no belt....no exhaust....no nothing....so saving the planet you definitely are if your worried about that which I aint....and on and on and on....get one IMO...electric truck would b sweet...but one that regenerates instead of plugging in would be the best option...enjoy your truck...I love my hybrids...luxurious...and fast also

I agree hybrid tech is what I thought would be the future don’t have to change the infrastructure it’s there and greenies can still save the planet. Why didn’t it win?

 

[buddah2]

...I have a mkz hybrid...

That's all fine and dandy but also totally not germane to the conversation of all-electric vehicles and their necessary support system etc.

 

[Skylar]

I can answer some of the battery issues you guys are concerned about...I have a mkz hybrid...you don't plug it in so 10x better than all electric ones IMO and no extra pollution with power plants...it has 263,000 miles and going strong and batteries being uncharged and recharged hourly for 11 years so far don't effect it at all...so that's internet BS IMO...and everyone is always...OMG they cost so much to replace and have to replace often...both untrue AGAIN...you can buy my batteries at advanced auto for 2500 bucks...not 10 grand you always hear...and that might b every 15 years or more...by then thd car will b more worn out than any battery....can go 700 miles on one tank of gas which is 3 times more than most cars can and its only 17 gallons....my 2019 mkz can go 600 miles on 14 gallons...so that's 800+ on a cars tank size which regular cars can't even come close....the gas motor is only on half the time so I never had any repairs...none...no water pump...no belt....no exhaust....no nothing....so saving the planet you definitely are if your worried about that which I aint....and on and on and on....get one IMO...electric truck would b sweet...but one that regenerates instead of plugging in would be the best option...enjoy your truck...I love my hybrids...luxurious...and fast also

Impressive for sure. I have a 19 Jetta 1.4 turbo, 13.3 gallon tank. My best so far is 604 miles on one tank.

 

[old abe]

I can answer some of the battery issues you guys are concerned about...I have a mkz hybrid...you don't plug it in so 10x better than all electric ones IMO and no extra pollution with power plants...it has 263,000 miles and going strong and batteries being uncharged and recharged hourly for 11 years so far don't effect it at all...so that's internet BS IMO...and everyone is always...OMG they cost so much to replace and have to replace often...both untrue AGAIN...you can buy my batteries at advanced auto for 2500 bucks...not 10 grand you always hear...and that might b every 15 years or more...by then thd car will b more worn out than any battery....can go 700 miles on one tank of gas which is 3 times more than most cars can and its only 17 gallons....my 2019 mkz can go 600 miles on 14 gallons...so that's 800+ on a cars tank size which regular cars can't even come close....the gas motor is only on half the time so I never had any repairs...none...no water pump...no belt....no exhaust....no nothing....so saving the planet you definitely are if your worried about that which I aint....and on and on and on....get one IMO...electric truck would b sweet...but one that regenerates instead of plugging in would be the best option...enjoy your truck...I love my hybrids...luxurious...and fast also

Check out the Ford F 150 Hybrid specs, eh? Absolutely Impressive all the way through!

 

[old abe]

I agree hybrid tech is what I thought would be the future don’t have to change the infrastructure it’s there and greenies can still save the planet. Why didn’t it win?

Yeah well, it's not lost whitedust. Not in anyway, shape, or form! I seen several years ago how the "Hybrids" are going to transform. New designed, smaller, but very "highly efficient, high power output", engines will be the future of "hybrids". Running on high blends of Ethanol, that they were designed for.

 

[harvest1121]

Well I joined the hybrid game about 3 months ago. It was more financial then anything have a 2016 F150 with 110k on it. If k drive the next 4 year have 200k 0n it then spend 60k on a new truck. Well bought a Toyota Corolla hybrid that I actually like driving. On my trips to Woodruff Wi I usually average 50 mpg but driving the car around Illinois I have been averaging 65-70. Have friends with Telsas they do not make sense to me for the price and range. They said the electric bill usually increases $100 a month. I did buy the car for $22500 otd just a little more then my 2022 Sidewinder.

 

[Hoosier]

I agree hybrid tech is what I thought would be the future don’t have to change the infrastructure it’s there and greenies can still save the planet. Why didn’t it win?

Agree 100% with that. Hybrids seem to get most of the benefits with a lot less of the range and infrastructure issues. Guess we'll have to see what our govt and corporate overlords want us to do first.

 

[heckler56]

I think there is a place for everyone. EV - great for around town particularly with regenerative braking. Are they worth a massive infrastructure expense? Hybrids - for those that live outside of town and make lengthy trips. Research says they actually are the worst carbon footprint (don’t shoot the messenger). Oil changes, oil filters, spark plugs, air filter, anti freeze, transmission and fluid, differential, catalytic converters etc.. Trains - the original hybrid capable of moving many people.

Unfortunately like allot of things in todays world we try to say one size fits all. Don’t eat this, eat this. Drink this don’t drink this. It all makes for great press and sells advertising which embellishes truths. I really feel middle of the road is the solution. I have to wonder what the people in Texas or California think when the above ground power supply gets shut down because of freezing temps or wildfires. You lose your ability to charge. Are you stuck there if you traveled into town before the shutdown? Massive evacuations, wait let me put it on a charger, shoot it doesn’t work.

Grub gave it thought on his situation and found balance. In the end that is what we will all do.

 

[old abe]

I think there is a place for everyone. EV - great for around town particularly with regenerative braking. Are they worth a massive infrastructure expense? Hybrids - for those that live outside of town and make lengthy trips. Research says they actually are the worst carbon footprint (don’t shoot the messenger). Oil changes, oil filters, spark plugs, air filter, anti freeze, transmission and fluid, differential, catalytic converters etc.. Trains - the original hybrid capable of moving many people.

Unfortunately like allot of things in todays world we try to say one size fits all. Don’t eat this, eat this. Drink this don’t drink this. It all makes for great press and sells advertising which embellishes truths. I really feel middle of the road is the solution. I have to wonder what the people in Texas or California think when the above ground power supply gets shut down because of freezing temps or wildfires. You lose your ability to charge. Are you stuck there if you traveled into town before the shutdown? Massive evacuations, wait let me put it on a charger, shoot it doesn’t work.

Grub gave it thought on his situation and found balance. In the end that is what we will all do.

Good thoughts! The best solution for everyone, no matter their "taste", is having the choice of many forms of energy, eh! Use whatever, wherever "fits, and works best"! There is no denying the many advantages, that far outweigh the issues, with "Electric/Drive/Propulsion". High tech electric drive corn/ag planters are the absolute ultimate in super accurate, and efficient! High tech solutions are in the electrical components/drives/controls.

 

[camphappyplace]

Very interesting thread. I recently watched a two part documentary on the History Channel called “The Cars That Made America”. It started in the 1880s and ended with thoughts on electric vehicles. A comment made at the end of the documentary really hit me. It was stated that all-electric vehicles have 10% of the moving parts compared to a conventional vehicle. That is huge when it comes to maintenance and reliability. Obviously that doesn’t mean much if the necessary infrastructure isn’t in place to make all-electric viable for the masses. If the challenges of an all-electric support system are overcome, the drop in moving parts will have an enormous impact to many businesses/industries in the long run.

 

[whitedust]

Very interesting thread. I recently watched a two part documentary on the History Channel called “The Cars That Made America”. It started in the 1880s and ended with thoughts on electric vehicles. A comment made at the end of the documentary really hit me. It was stated that all-electric vehicles have 10% of the moving parts compared to a conventional vehicle. That is huge when it comes to maintenance and reliability. Obviously that doesn’t mean much if the necessary infrastructure isn’t in place to make all-electric viable for the masses. If the challenges of an all-electric support system are overcome, the drop in moving parts will have an enormous impact to many businesses/industries in the long run.

USA has an oil driven economy that would be very damaging to turn off cold turkey. All the parts that go into an internal combustion engine are dependent on healthy auto sales. Take that away and electronic chips go away too. Not to mention all the jobs in the oil fields , pipeline workers and refineries. Everything from plastics , paints , numerous chemicals are gone not to mention, natural gas, LP and oil to heat your home. Gradual evolution is what the world economy needs to alternative energy sources government mandates to electric vehicles is a huge mistake let it happen as a market driven product. Slowly but surely we evolved from TV tubes to flat screens but the broadcasting infrastructure evolved slower than the Flat screens. Look at music from vinyl records, various tape carriers , CDs , mp 3 now it’s all in the cloud. I estimate it took 50 - 70 years for that evolution. Imo electric cars should take the same path in time no need to have it happened in 5 years just no reason for it economically too many negative consequences. New oil pipeline from Russian to Europe ain’t being built for a 5 year term it’s more like 50 -60 years of profitable use. Don’t be brainwashed movement from oil will be gradual worldwide.

 

[heckler56]

USA has an oil driven economy that would be very damaging to turn off cold turkey. All the parts that go into an internal combustion engine are dependent on healthy auto sales. Take that away and electronic chips go away too. Not to mention all the jobs in the oil fields , pipeline workers and refineries. Everything from plastics , paints , numerous chemicals are gone not to mention, natural gas, LP and oil to heat your home. Gradual evolution is what the world economy needs to alternative energy sources government mandates to electric vehicles is a huge mistake let it happen as a market driven product. Slowly but surely we evolved from TV tubes to flat screens but the broadcasting infrastructure evolved slower than the Flat screens. Look at music from vinyl records, various tape carriers , CDs , mp 3 now it’s all in the cloud. I estimate it took 50 - 70 years for that evolution. Imo electric cars should take the same path in time no need to have it happened in 5 years just no reason for it economically too many negative consequences. New oil pipeline from Russian to Europe ain’t being built for a 5 year term it’s more like 50 -60 years of profitable use. Don’t be brainwashed movement from oil will be gradual worldwide.

Some excellent points. Did you know there is a EV company out there that has/is building a car that new axles/motors are plug and play replaceable? Like the 24 hour LeMans cars, drive into the pits, lift it up and replace, set down drive on. So you basically are buying a “pod”… I think we all can agree evolution has begun in all careers and that will be a challenge for the next generations. Carvanna, real estate sales, banking to name a few jobs feeling that impact.

Pundits in the auto industry I follow feel EV only has about a 10 year run at best as being a go to product. They will continue to be a viable product but will be one of a few “choice” of product. Focus already is in process at hydrogen vehicles. They expel drinkable water and the fuel in theory is more abundant. When the press and popularity contest wake up to the strip mining for lithium (deforestation) we will see the cancel attitude take shape. Hydrogen’s problem is similar to EV, establishing a suitable fuel delivery network.

 

[brad460]

50 percent of electricity in this country is produced by coal and or fossil fuels

Fossil fuels - 60%
Nuclear - 20%
Renewables- 20%

Demand for NG is expected to rise over the next 20+ years and then level out.

Btw- Anyone know how many gallons of oil a wind turbine gearbox holds?