Reviews of renegade backcountry from the artic north

[snobuilder]

Maybe I am biased but for alla the talk by non-Yamaha fans about Yamahas poor sales figures I sure do see alot of them on the trail.
Could it be this is because they are so reliable with engines that will outlast your typical 2 stroke 10 times?.....

or is it the smooth linear arm stretching torque they have on tap?

 

[momoney2123]

Good to see you were taking notes, MOMO....LOL....My Yamaha Apex is anything but boring. 2 strokes are lighter and my Poo is a different type of "non-boring"...pretty simple really....BTW, what new innovation has Ski-Doo sled division pioneered lately?

Yamahas pioneering the High-Perf. 4 stroke market also was responsible for placement and cc ratings that govern the race classes.
Too bad Cat, Doo and or Poo couldn't come up with a 1050cc nat. asp. catagory 4stroke to compete with the Yamaha hi-perf. engines.
They had plenty of time to catch up. I believe we'd be seeing an exclusive 4 stroke 1050cc race class in place if they didn't chicken out.

O my. Where do i start. What new innovation has skidoo pionered lately. shaking my head LOL. lets see. To start the industries proven and uniformly agreed best suspension...the R motion now along with the RAS 2 front end. Industries only direct injection that doesnt load up, starts first pull, and has minimal smoke, and that has been improved and refined every year. People like you think the 09 600etec is the same as the 2015 600etec and the 2011 800 is the same as the 2015, NOPE. Hmmm ACE technology along with throttle by wire giving you 3 different modes and allowing to have a finger throttle. A fully adjustable suspension without getting off your sled that takes seconds to go from super soft to allout stiff. What else...an adjustable limiter strap allowing 2 holes change without getting off your sled. Hmm the only 174 inch long track ever to be produced combined with the first ever 3 inch track. Along with T-motion, something i see the after market skids copying. The first ever fully adjustable ski's. multi stage rave valves..sound familiar? cough cough. I mean what else...maybe the super sophisticated ECM managment that i see now your POO is implementing into their 800ho and is why they have power fade....there is so much more its unreal but this is what i can think of off the top of my head


Rotax could EASILY build a 160+hp 4 stroke. Let me repeat that...EASILY. dont kid yourself. its simply a business descision to not invade on the sales of the snowmobiling industrys best selling engine..the 800etec. Which yields a bigger profit margin that a 4 stroke.

The REAL question is what has yamaha done besides stick a crotch rocket engine from the 90's in a 10+ year old snowmobile chassis.

 

[momoney2123]

Or what about the industry's only summerization mode. Allowing automaic engine fogging. Industrys only break-in mode, which tells you when your engine is broken in and rings are seated. Any other sled have warm-up mode? Fully adjustable hand warmers vs just a simple high and low. Minor yes, but no one else does it. Just like everything in life, attention to detail is important .

 

[momoney2123]

Bottom line is, skidoo has pushed the whole industry foward starting with the orginal REV. Not by themselves, but they have did things that forced every manufacturer to produce a better product. That simply cannot be denied.

In the end its better for us all as consumers of each manufacturer.

 

[lenny]

Most guys i know get the cats to 230-240hp with very minimal mods.

But i guess they would void their warranty technically. unless they have a good dealer.

Is the yamaha with a push still warrantied?

If yamaha wants to drop a bombshell on the sledding market, they will have spent the last 10 years of mundaneness perfecting a 2 stroke turbo . maybe they have a huge trick up their sleeve

Yamaha turbo is warrantied just like the AC turbo, mods do void warr

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Maybe I am biased but for alla the talk by non-Yamaha fans about Yamahas poor sales figures I sure do see alot of them on the trail.
Could it be this is because they are so reliable with engines that will outlast your typical 2 stroke 10 times?.....

or is it the smooth linear arm stretching torque they have on tap?

It has to be, it sure isn't the chassis. No one buys that sled for the chassis, do they? I admit, they make a great engine. I don't see many on the trails, especially late models, although it's hard to tell unless you know the color changes. LOL

 

[lenny]

Or what about the industry's only summerization mode. Allowing automaic engine fogging. Industrys only break-in mode, which tells you when your engine is broken in and rings are seated. Any other sled have warm-up mode? Fully adjustable hand warmers vs just a simple high and low. Minor yes, but no one else does it. Just like everything in life, attention to detail is important .

Yam since 03 has a warm up cycle and you don't move sled till it lets you, also has fully adjustable hand and thumb warmer digital 8 position (I think) not just low high but incremental on a digital read out,,,been doing since 03,,took doo what,,,,,,, 12 years to catch up?

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It has to be, it sure isn't the chassis. No one buys that sled for the chassis, do they? I admit, they make a great engine. I don't see many on the trails, especially late models, although it's hard to tell unless you know the color changes. LOL

they buy it for the entire sled knowing that it's always going to start and run reliable with good economy and a good ride (not the best). Granted, they don't ride the best but they ride good and with the added benefits of longevity,,,to many it's worth the small compromise,,,ask pwolfy and many others. How many catch fire or blow up, rare with Yam but yes, they are not as smooth but they do keep going so for those whp are not throttle junkies the trade off is actually advantageous. If I were going back to trail at my age of 50, I would hands down by a Yamaha because I know that the failure rate is much lower and can run 87,,,no need for you guys to start hammering Yam with the 14 viper because we can all much easier dump on the other 3 for more frequent problems and recalls

 

[momoney2123]

Yam since 03 has a warm up cycle and you don't move sled till it lets you, also has fully adjustable hand and thumb warmer digital 8 position (I think) not just low high but incremental on a digital read out,,,been doing since 03,,took doo what,,,,,,, 12 years to catch up?

I guess im going by the latest yamaha viper. High and Low only according to mr. gofenko. Yamah still have that warm up thingy? not letting you move? ski-doo still lets you move incase of emergency, its simply telling you to warm up the engine VISUALLY and lets you make the call if you want to go anyway. pretty big difference.


The yamahas hand warmers were one way? meaning you had to cylcle all the way thru to get back to 1? Doo's goes up and down, and had that in well before this year, cant rememeber if that was on the orginal revs or not. I know I had it on my 2011. Either way this is splitting hairs. My point to snoman was Doo in fact poinered many many things and still do and will continue to push and move foward. And to be honest is ludicris that he thinks an apex has more darn poineering features to it. truth is the apex is a dinosuar in comparison to an AXYS, REV-XS or Pro-Cross.

 

[lenny]

you can move a yamaha but it's not gonna race, do your research before you claim doo is boss , lol I just proved to you doo is 12 years behind on these features, about friggin time. Finally they stopped blowing up so now they can refine,,,go figure. Your t motion is a bandaid for poor chassis design on the doo mtn sleds. The after market t motion design is for sleds that need addition help turning over,,,think your gonna see many on a poo or cat who were designed from the ground up with carving and side hilling in mind,,,unlike doo

 

[momoney2123]

you can move a yamaha but it's not gonna race, do your research before you claim do it boss,lol

Just going by what you said. "warm up cycle and you don't move sled till it lets you"

 

[lenny]

excuse me,,,ride off into the sunset I should have said

 

[Deleted member 10829]

To start the industries proven and uniformly agreed best suspension...the R motion now along with the RAS 2 front end.

Most reviews I've read say the new Axys rear suspension is on par with the R motion and I agree after riding both, (SnowGoer said the Axys sets the new benchmark) but I have NEVER read where the RAS 2 front is better than the Poo, and I have read most of them.

 

[momoney2123]

Most reviews I've read say the new Axys rear suspension is on par with the R motion and I agree after riding both, (SnowGoer said the Axys sets the new benchmark) but I have NEVER read where the RAS 2 front is better than the Poo, and I have read most of them.

I didnt mean to say the RAS 2 is the best front end, i was just mentioning as something that they have released recently, and was a HUGE improvement over the orginal RAS.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Sorry, I thought when you said it was uniformly the best suspension you were including the front as you said along with the RAS 2. I haven't had a chance to ride a sled with the RAS 2 yet as none of my riding buddies that ride Doo have upgraded in a while. I think they are waiting for a new chassis as it has to be coming. I do know the old front end was very "nervous" on the trail.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I have noticed in the past couple of days that Kip has posted a couple of recent Doo trades for sale. I'm curious if they snowchecked a Yammy or Poo?

 

[momoney2123]

Sorry, I thought when you said it was uniformly the best suspension you were including the front as you said along with the RAS 2. I haven't had a chance to ride a sled with the RAS 2 yet as none of my riding buddies that ride Doo have upgraded in a while. I think they are waiting for a new chassis as it has to be coming. I do know the old front end was very "nervous" on the trail.

When you hit bumps at higher speeds the orginal RAS couldnt match the rear end. It did get nervous, much better with RAS 2. Most casual riders wouldnt notice this tho . What they will notice is it corners flatter. I could make my 2011 inside ski lift fairly easy, not the case with the 15. Its a much better design and big improvement all the way around

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I was always aware of ski lift, but never thought about it too much. Once the ski lift is gone, you really notice it. I couldn't get my Axys to ski lift unless there was a rutt or something in the corner. Good to hear you're seeing the same thing.

 

[ezra]

O my. Where do i start. What new innovation has skidoo pionered lately. shaking my head LOL. lets see. To start the industries proven and uniformly agreed best suspension...the R motion now along with the RAS 2 front end. Industries only direct injection that doesnt load up, starts first pull, and has minimal smoke, and that has been improved and refined every year. People like you think the 09 600etec is the same as the 2015 600etec and the 2011 800 is the same as the 2015, NOPE. Hmmm ACE technology along with throttle by wire giving you 3 different modes and allowing to have a finger throttle. A fully adjustable suspension without getting off your sled that takes seconds to go from super soft to allout stiff. What else...an adjustable limiter strap allowing 2 holes change without getting off your sled. Hmm the only 174 inch long track ever to be produced combined with the first ever 3 inch track. Along with T-motion, something i see the after market skids copying. The first ever fully adjustable ski's. multi stage rave valves..sound familiar? cough cough. I mean what else...maybe the super sophisticated ECM managment that i see now your POO is implementing into their 800ho and is why they have power fade....there is so much more its unreal but this is what i can think of off the top of my head


Rotax could EASILY build a 160+hp 4 stroke. Let me repeat that...EASILY. dont kid yourself. its simply a business descision to not invade on the sales of the snowmobiling industrys best selling engine..the 800etec. Which yields a bigger profit margin that a 4 stroke.

The REAL question is what has yamaha done besides stick a crotch rocket engine from the 90's in a 10+ year old snowmobile chassis.

prob with most of what u stated they are all bandages to fix issues they were having with the old design . and I would deff not go any place close to [To start the industries proven and uniformly agreed best suspension] that my friend is deff up for heavy debate . ras 2 bandade for the twitch suspension of old . the minn smoke comes from using no oil to lube any thing but the cylinders and that is also a huge downfall for them.that fully adjustable suspension is a big snow and ice catcher that 99.9 guys out there get set how they like it and never turn the nut again. as far as the only 174 in track to be produced better look that one up . and the T motion is nothing but a bandage to mask the powder snow ill handling defects caused by yrs of tweaking the suspension and chassis to get rid of doos infamous inside ski lift . aas far as the ecu yep u need it to run as close to the edge with no oil as they do .just like a high strung import great to own under warranty .why is it they have to have a break in mode. have had a pile of sleds that have been ridden hard and put away wet from day 1 that got big mi on them before selling.

 

[snobuilder]

ficht technology as well as Yamahas sport bike YCC-t 3 mode motorcycle throttle technology were glommed onto by ski-doo.
no pioneering there and that is your BIG 2.
A smoother rear suspension?....big whoop...Saturday afternoon trails still have owners of all brands whining.
Yamahas reostat hand/thumb warmers are 30 years old and still work better than any new system out there today.....LOL

As you know, I was curious enough to plunk down my hard earned MOney and explore backwards into the latest 2 stroke engine and chassis for 2015 with my AXYS 800.
I am not sure how much better your Ski-doos are than the AXYS but considering all of the trade-offs between the AXYS and the '11 Apex I'd call it a draw at best.

i'd seriously ask you to spend a season on a new Apex but then I realixe that your childlike big boy bias wouldn't allow youself to be fair in any sort of open minded analysis of the best sled/4 stroke trail sled available.

 

[snobuilder]

BTW Yamaha trail riding and sport bike riding have alot in common....both dumped the unreliable antiquated 2 strokes years ago.