Sled comparison- AC,Yami,Doo,Pol

[bryan t]

I have owned every brand in the last 15 years...they all have their ups and downs....I currently own a crossfire 600...I love the way it rides, and handles..but it get's poor fuel economy (10 MPG in powder, 11.5 on trail).. and smokes alot(oil usage is also higher)..compared to my doo's and my yamis that I had, and has cost me more money on maintenance than any brand I have owned. IMO the hood, belly pan, and side panels fit poorly..Cat doesn't have anywhere near the fit and finish of a yamaha...but again..function over form..this sled rocks..on or off trail.

That being said...my next sled will be a yamaha..I realize they don't handle or ride as good as the doo's or the cats...but I am not a good mechanic, and don't like wrenchin...I also like to put on alot of miles, and don't want to buy a new sled every three years..so a two stroke is out of the question...yeah the etecs are interesting..but you still have to buy expensive two stroke oil (synthetic)...you still have to clean power valves, and they are still junk at 10,000 miles...sorry but you won't catch me paying over 10,000 dollars for a 600 cc two stroke..no way.

It all depends on what is important to you..if it's light weight or performance get a doo etec...if it's reliability or fuel economy..you can't beat a yami.
If you don't mind doing some wrenchin..cat makes a fine machine.

 

[ezra]

I don't buy the wrenching on cats part.I turn plenty of wrenches on cats buy choice.but the wife's sleds I never open the hood except to put oil in and my trail/boondockers same thing until the extended warranty is over then I start the mods.the drag sled gets worked on about 12hr for every 1/2 hr of run time but that is my zen time.don't let the yammi guys fool you they all break have been under the hood of a few yammi and never a fun or fast fix.they all have their issues but who remembers the days of being lucky to make a 30mi day with a group I can think of verry few times as a kid every one making it the day with out having to stop crack open a hood pass around some blackberry brandy and get to wrenching.but that was a big part of the fun and comradery

 

[cries]

I really appreciate all the feedback on this thread. It has been quite helpful. One of my EXT600s just turned 10K last w/e. Funny thing is that I have not put a dime in maintanence for the last 4-5 yrs. My cousin rode it all w/e with no problems. I think I will start my search by sitting on some sleds like many suggested. Funny, I thought there would be some positives on Polaris. If I had to pick the very most important aspect of riding, it would be handling. Not for aggressive riding but more so for control of the machine. I am usually the lead person in our group and hug the right side of the trail close. Thank again everyone for your opinions.

 

[hoffmansledder]

I couldn't agree with you more Marty. Thank again for helping me with my e-tec and setting me up with the demo for a while. KMS is an awesome dealership.

 

[srt20]

I really appreciate all the feedback on this thread. It has been quite helpful. One of my EXT600s just turned 10K last w/e. Funny thing is that I have not put a dime in maintanence for the last 4-5 yrs. My cousin rode it all w/e with no problems. I think I will start my search by sitting on some sleds like many suggested. Funny, I thought there would be some positives on Polaris. If I had to pick the very most important aspect of riding, it would be handling. Not for aggressive riding but more so for control of the machine. I am usually the lead person in our group and hug the right side of the trail close. Thank again everyone for your opinions.

If you want handling for non-aggressive riding, I still say take your pick. Most every sled out there will dart somewhat. To eliminate that %100 you will need to change set-up and or different carbides/skis. I think any of the sleds out there will be easily controlled at moderate speeds. Once the speed starts to increase, is when you notice the handling differences between the makes.

Im not gonna tell you what my opinion is of the best handling aggressive riding sled is cuz thats not what you are looking for. But Im sure someone will on here. Go do some demo rides at the speed you plan to ride at.

 

[anonomoose]

Well, let me wade in here...

Most sled companies other than those that have issues and are pretty easily found have pretty good rides and nearly if not all sleds have come quite a ways since 2000 so you will improve no matter what you buy...it will be that much better, at least in ride dependability and gas mileage with but very few exceptions.

What has not been talked about are the "other aspects" of sledding. For instance, some sleds are dependable but their hand warmers suck, and they don't have good wind protection...is that important to you??...you will notice a big difference as wind protection has gone down hill since you bought your last sled.

Also, noise factors. I hate loud sleds. Riding it all day gives me a headache if it is noisy or the sled in front of you which has a Wawwwa Waaa noise in your ear can be unpleasant unless you like that.

What about creature comforts?? Still like pulling that ripe cord when it is 10 below outside?? Nice to hit a key at the door and get the beast warmed up while you struggle with your boots. Not all makers integrate e-start equally, and don't forget that some are still cranking out carb models that are pretty far apart from efi state of the art engineering.

Another thing that is not mentioned much here is suspensions. They are not all created equally. Some do well in the bumps, some are so-so. Do you want a longer track as the tendancy is moving that way because the shorty tends to drop down in the bubbles. Longer tracks tend to bridge the mogals and do better.

How about adjustable steering that can move forward or back, up and down with a flick of a lever? Nice to stand up some and move it and nice to sit down cruising along.

Skis are important too. Some makes just don't get it done, and you end up having to lay bread out before the wax is off the machine.

What about instrumentation? Do you like reaching for a button at 40 mph, or the flick of a button on the handlebars?

Shocks too...some are good some are so-so. They make the sled or not depending upon the model.

How about warranty?

Lots of things to consider including the dealer who will be fixing the sled from time to time. Does the make your about to buy have to shuck and jive you or does the maker give dealer latitude and get the fix done. What about parts..is this sled one that had a short life in the market??

All companies have poor stuff and passible stuff. Most also have a shiny one which has the best of the best.

I have owned all 4 makers since 2002, and I have gone round the post starting with cats (which I have done nothing to except lubrication) to yamaha, skiddoodlers, and polaris in both two and four stroke.

They all were passible sleds, but some I still have are darn good. My latest sled is a cat turbo z long tracker....anyone who says the fit and finish isn't as good as...@#$^%@#%, hasn't even seen one. Starts good rides good, gets good gas mileage and has crazy horse power (not sure I needed all that...but it is there just the same) and no the gas mileage is not that bad mid 15'ish so far, and I would recommend riding one before you plunk down the cash. (Maybe not the turbo...unless you have a death wish...but definitely take a look at the z-1)

Resale is nearly identical far as I can tell so that doesn't seem to mean much even between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke, tho I tend to agree that a sled with higher mileage I would favor a 4 stroke that should mean that the engine will go the distance better than a 2 stroke...but then that's probably just me.
And don't forget that suspensions wear out too, so no sense in getting your panty hose in a bunch cause the sled is a four stroke and has 15,000 miles, the stuff under the sled will need to be checked and likely replaced depending upon how the owner treated it....(those boys who jump don't want you to hear this part....)

Finally I like Cat because like Polaris it is All American Made or at least as much as you can get. This info and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee...but these days, everything is important to help the economy along.

 

[3_old_jags]

I ride an 07 F5 LXR and the ride is very smooth, multi seat positions and handle bar settings are great. I put Bergstrom triple points on with ski savers and sims. You can put the sled wherever you want it. My 16 & 21 year old girls love the way it handles. I rented an 09 Ski doo GSX and felt it didn't handle the bumps as well as the Cat. As it has been said try a few out.

 

[bryan t]

anonomoose...I don't want to agrue with you about fit and finish..or what brand of sled is best..it' s like arguing about politics or religion..but I have owned all 4...and my cat at least is not up to snuff fit and finish wise with yamaha. Of all the sleds I have owned (4 ski-doos, 4 yamaha's, 1 polaris, 1 cat) in the last 12 yrs...my yamaha's had the least amount of problems, and none were ever towed..two of my doo's were towed, and my cat has been towed once...that being said NONE of the yamaha's had the ride or handling of either my 03 revx or this 07 crossfire...IMO it's a trade off..reliablity, fit and finish for handling/performance.

^^^Like somebody said...try and ride them all..ride what you like best, and what suits your needs best. If Everybody rode the same brand what fun would it be, when we got to our favorite watering holes, and started bench racin..lol

 

[lenny]

seeing that you are experienced trail rider I would suggest the vector. The electronics are far superior, the reliability is also far superior, power is smooth and predictable, probably not the best in handling but getting better every year. Mr.Freeze loves his vector and will run over 10,000 miles this year. Over 7000 now and just got it a few month ago new with NO problems, I do believe he blew a belt. Yammi's are heavier but for trail riding they are so comfortable and quite. If I had to compare it to a car I would say it is like a cadi sts. I wont buy one because they don't make a boondockin sled that goes where YOU want it to go, they're front end heavy and have a mind of their own but as reliable as can be.

Another friend of mine has the Doo 600etec and that sled rocks, very strong and stable. Handling is excellent, lightweight and nimble, simple don't know enough on longevity with new new motor. Another buddy has an 06 crossfire and seems to be a very good sled also, hard on gas though. My personal opinion is that the yammi 4 stroke is for sure as fast but much smoother and proven reliability

 

[anonomoose]

anonomoose...I don't want to agrue with you about fit and finish..or what brand of sled is best..it' s like arguing about politics or religion..but I have owned all 4...and my cat at least is not up to snuff fit and finish wise with yamaha. Of all the sleds I have owned (4 ski-doos, 4 yamaha's, 1 polaris, 1 cat) in the last 12 yrs...my yamaha's had the least amount of problems, and none were ever towed..two of my doo's were towed, and my cat has been towed once...that being said NONE of the yamaha's had the ride or handling of either my 03 revx or this 07 crossfire...IMO it's a trade off..reliablity, fit and finish for handling/performance.

^^^Like somebody said...try and ride them all..ride what you like best, and what suits your needs best. If Everybody rode the same brand what fun would it be, when we got to our favorite watering holes, and started bench racin..lol

These rants usually provide one thing...and that is one own personal preference.

Your experience Bryan is far different than was mine. I had two Yamaha sleds and they were one problem after another (04 units) and the suspensions were substandard. While I did not have to have either one towed, they had starting issues blown seals, prone to flooding if you trailered with a full tank of gas for lack of a fuel shut-off, over heated and a bunch of other things that put them in the shop more than on the snow so I got rid of them both before they had 1000 miles on them. They were 4 cylinder sleds. My cats on the other hand have been by far the most trouble free sleds I have owned. My 02 units I have yet to change a sparkplug on....one has had the belt changed but that was because some dummy forgot to unlock the brake. I still own Polaris, but the under the hood engineering leaves a bunch to be desired. After looking everything over, I went back to cat for the Turbo z and aside from having insane ponies, I will match fit and finish, both under the hood and on the body with anything else made to date. Granted it has been a bit slow for American products, but there is no question they have gotten the message about what the competition has been doing. Skids are first rate, steering geometry is spot on, good balance and control, I just wish the multimeter had a control on the handlebar like those that Polaris has, as I find that far easier to adjust and move around than those that Yamaha, and skiddo and on the Cats. Course it is cheaper to make it all one unit than to put a control on the handlebar...but that is nice feature Polaris has. The doo was a cheaper model but it gave me the most issues of any of my sleds, and I felt the body panels and overall sled build was on the cheap side, though not cheap in price....the skid was way better than the Yamaha units and it would go anywhere but it is gone too.

Everyone has a preference based upon eye candy, and zippidy doo dah day stuff...but I don't think anyone has any engine, body or go power sewed up...so it is a try it and see basis for most who haven't made up their minds before they hit the inside of the show room.

I try very hard to be objective when I assess these sleds, and I do NOT bleed one color...ever.

 

[ezra]

I have learned 1 thing about cat xfire hoods on my last trip in the woods.I found my self in the air sideways bouncing the hood off a tree.hood did not bust or even scuff up no harm no foul right part of boondocking I guess.but when I got home I saw the heat shield had a big dent like the size of a roll of duct tape I thought W.T.F happened there then I remembered bouncing off that tree right before being burred up to my windshield good fun.well that is all I have to say about the durability of cat hoods.and it still fits great

 

[ohiosledder]

I understand Yamaha's are good sleds, as these days most sleds are good. But I laugh a little when these guys say "far superior" to other sleds. I also get a kick out of how much Yamaha riders think that all other brands break down all the time. My current sled is an '07 F6, it has 5000 perfect miles. Zero break downs. I've never had to change a plug, never had to clean the power valves. It sits in the garage for 8-9 months of the year, and yet it starts on the second pull everytime after sitting that long. Now that's reliable! My old sled was a '96 ZRT, 9000 perfect miles. Zero break downs. Yes, Yamaha does make a good product, a reliable product. Far superior in reliability - that's a MYTH!

 

[lenny]

I understand Yamaha's are good sleds, as these days most sleds are good. But I laugh a little when these guys say "far superior" to other sleds. I also get a kick out of how much Yamaha riders think that all other brands break down all the time. My current sled is an '07 F6, it has 5000 perfect miles. Zero break downs. I've never had to change a plug, never had to clean the power valves. It sits in the garage for 8-9 months of the year, and yet it starts on the second pull every time after sitting that long. Now that's reliable! My old sled was a '96 ZRT, 9000 perfect miles. Zero break downs. Yes, Yamaha does make a good product, a reliable product. Far superior in reliability - that's a MYTH!

so you got a sled that has worked for you for 3 years and you have great reliability?

you gonna need a few more miles than that to claim reliability, 5000 miles in 3 years ain't squat.

sit on a new yammi sled and operate the electronics than go to any other sled made and honestly tell me what you think. The thread starter ask for comps and we are giving them based on his riding preference and needs. There is NO possible way you can win a argument claiming a 2 stroke is more reliable than a 4 stroke, impossible. My first sled was a 74 Merc 440 SR and have seen the evolution of engineering threw all these years and it is remarkable what the manufactures have done. Yammi looses on some issues and I admit it but for 4 stroke reliability, yammi wins out hands down. Concerning the rest of the sled maint, any sled will have to be maintained.

Go look at the electronics and come back and report, I bet you wont

 

[ohiosledder]

Lenny, I think 14,000 consecutive miles on my last two sleds without any breakdowns is a plenty valid argument for reliability. And no, I'm not trying to compare 2 stroke to 4 stroke, just noting that the original post was from a 2 stroke AC guy who wanted feedback only to have numerous posts claim that Cats are unreliable, which is simply not true. And no, I'm not arguing electronics either, I think they're great on Yamahas. I am simply disputing the opinion that overall quality and reliability of Yamaha is far superior to any other make. Yes, Cats have their downside, as do all sleds, but reliability isn't one of them.

 

[lenny]

couple things I should have noted a bit better now that I understand your point better. When I refer to the reliability of a sled I refer to it as starting and running as it was designed to run. There are many other aspects of a sled that can be bogus but still run. I remember back in 95 when I bought a vmax and was amazed on how accurate the fuel gauge was. I drove that sled till 01 and found the accuracy to be as good on the srx and sx. In 03 I tried a RX1 and was astonished at the electronics and still am. My buddy than bought a 03 Doo rev 600 HO and wow was that thing fast and handled the best I could imagine in 03, so much better than my RX1. BUT, His fuel gauge was junk like all of the same models that year, the machine was using nearly twice the fuel but man did it have power and handling. Yesterday I rode with an old friend who just got a 03 DOO rev 800, same thing, awesome power, junk fuel gauge and filler neck, the thing ran out of gas when I had 5/8 left, my other buddy with his 09 summit 600 etec used less than 3 gallons, DOO has come along way in 7 years enough for me to consider buying one. I look at the endless stories and see how well Yami has done right out of the box in 03 with the 4 strokes, awesome power, awesome fit and finish, awesome electronics, average handling. I know others handled better cause I rode them.

Your 14,000 are respectable and show reliability but to what degree. You mention 9000 miles on a 14 year old sled and that indicates very light usage. Looks like you take care of your stuff and that's awesome. I think guys who ride hard and live to ride (which is not me) can offer some serious data to see exactly how well a sled can perform through the gamut. If you maintain a sled, any sled, it should be reliable only as good as it's engineering and R&D. You are right, the point is not 2 stroke versus 4 stroke but it is a factor in longevity. I ride a 2 stroke now because I look for the snap despite the reliability of 4 strokes because the fit of a 4 stroke has inherent disadvantage concerning weight and systems to run the 4 stroke, (Battery and all associated electronics, oil tanks & filter, fans. Overhead valve design, etc,,,. It all adds up. I had a chance to ride a new Doo 4 stroke and loved it, very nice. Cat and Poo may have as good if not better but I know one thing is doo sleds handle very, very good. I do hear of some Doo's with serious wiring problems, some fires also.

With all this said, I know I can trust a Yami 4 stroke to run and run and run, be strong in performance along with reliability, incredible electronics and very respectable MPG's, very nice paint and fit of components. I have not personally seen cat to be unreliable, nor poo or doo. If you get a chance, check out the for sale section here and on other site and you'll see, without a doubt that Yami owners, in General keep their sleds longer. This is easily illustrated at the amount of used Yami sleds for sale compared to the others. It does fluctuate but in general there are usually less Yami's compared to the others. I cannot say for sure exactly what that means but with my experience with Yami, I have formed an opinion based on experience. Lastly, I see things on cat, poo, and doo that I like better than Yami so please don't accuse me of a yami loyalist. I ride to suit my personal needs and whoever has the best sled for that is what i will but. Right now I have a 2000 Yami mtn max because that was all I could afford but what I really want is a M8, would settle for an RMK also. Right now I wouldn't get a Doo because they are too stable carving. if they can correct that they may be in the running come buying time. So, I am no loyalists. I have a Yami dealer across the street with great owners who set me up. That's a big factor in my dealings with Yami. I have been riding 3000 miles a year since 95 with Yammis and they have proven reliable, last few years off trail has proven Yami is lacking big time in the bush, unless they go 2 stroke again I will not get one for off trail. Opinion and experience are 2 different animals

 

[lenny]

please don't ask me about the 4 stroke phazers because you will make a liar out of me. I had one and didnt have many issues but some people hated those things and I understand why

 

[Firecatguy]

my 96 cougar went 15,000 miles and the people I sold it too are still riding it around town!!!!

and that's why I Am A BELIVER in Arctic Cat

 

[ohiosledder]

Lenny, good response, and I understand you're point of view better as well. Yes, my sleds generally are, by most standards, light usage because living in a state with no trail system and generally no snow, I have to do quite a bit of traveling just to get to snow. We make up for that by putting on big miles everyday when we do get up north. So at the current pace, I'll be with this sled for quite some time yet. But when I am ready for another one, even though I'm an AC guy, I will be taking a look at all the manufacturers, and especially all the 4 strokes.

 

[anonomoose]

Yamaha is not the only 4 stroke out there anymore, and all the four stroke sleds are good. From what I read (and I don't spend hours on it) Doo has a great 1200 4 stroke engine and their skid is second to none. Cat has been building 4 strokes LONGER than yamaha and they have an excellent 4 stroke engine, too. The skid on a Cat is second to none.

If you are going 2 stroke, the 3 companies that make them still do a good job but I think that the technology nod has to go to doo....they seem to be setting the pace there. Trouble is some reliability factors which seem to hamper doo year after year. I talked to a doo guy the other day and he says the 800 engine is not aligned correctly primary to secondary and blowing belts like crazy. He works in a shop to make up some spacers which apparently corrects that issue. But I would not want to be out chewing up belts at the price of belts these days. And how did that issue make it to market??

And Polaris makes GREAT electronics....you don't need to take your hand off the handlebar to use them either, which is a short coming for yamaha and doo and cat. Everything from altimeter, to a clock to actual temp readings instead of idiot lights....I see nothing better in the industry.

None of these are reasons alone to NOT buy something, but anyone who thinks THEIR sled company is arm and leg ahead of the pack is just eating up the hype and not looking around. I see no one sled maker who is commanding a better resale than others. Few hundred one way or other does not make as much difference compared to how the sled was used or maintained....and those things are always important.

Sit, ride and buy whatever gets your mojo going....for the most part you will enjoy whatever it is you invest in. Don't forget the payment book...it will be there year around.

 

[Hoosier]

The only thing I would recommend is to buy a sled that has been in the market for a couple years. The pace to bring new product to market has seemed to make the consumer responsible for R&D, which is insane with what the sleds go for these days.

I just saw a new 09 Polaris 600 on Ebay for $6500. Yes, it's four year old technology, but now it's probably as bullet proof and dialed-in as you're going to get, at least from a 2 stroke. I own an 06 Fusion 600, which is essentially the same sled, and it's been nothing but problems for me. Much of which I attribute to being a new model when it was made. Other examples are the Cat F-sleds and the yamaha delta box (I don't know much about ski doo). All have been out quite a few years and should be ready to go for a long time.