Smoking Ban?? Update??

Firecatguy

New member
Now they are forcing them to move the tobacco products "out of sight" in MN.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyl...qyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUsr

more government at it again.........well the ball is rolling now........maybe next they will say we cant buy liquor on Sundays...oh wait we already have that.....hmmmm I wounder if saying the pledge allegiance is still ok to say in school...ahhh nope....wait wait maybe they are going after the illegal immigrants..ahh nope busy telling 7\11 how to merchandise their stores!!!!

the funny part of this new law is....you can still get a meth pipe or crack pipe right off the counter at local convenience store BUT not smokes.....kinda crazy stuff....

it is sad as its only political and money motivated movement.....your all just sheep to them......now its light cigs!! come on........just think if you guys go and open a buisness then people dont like your buisness then the govt and some lawyers can sue you till your broke....god bless America

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/06/29/myers.big.tobacco/index.html
 
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cat_man_mike

New member
Thank you Banks, you solved the whole problem, cooler packs! What a genius, we can all bring cooler packs so when we hack up our lung from the guy sitting next to us smoking up the joint, we have something to put it in!
I still think it is hillarious that some of you think that "the evil government" is trying to stop people from smoking! Do you know how much tax revenue tobacco brings in? Ugh, use your brains people!!! This is not about getting people to stop, it is about getting them to move an entire 50 feet in order not to kill the guy eating next to them. Do you honestly think that by having the tobacco products out of sight, it will stop Joe Schmoe from picking up his daily pack of lucky's? It is a move to deter marketing to the underage. A very weak move, but a move nonetheless. Remove all of your "Da guverment is out to gut us!!" paranoya and see this law for what it is, a act to remove a serious health risk form the general public.
 

Banks93

New member
Thank you Banks, you solved the whole problem, cooler packs! What a genius, we can all bring cooler packs so when we hack up our lung from the guy sitting next to us smoking up the joint, we have something to put it in!
I still think it is hillarious that some of you think that "the evil government" is trying to stop people from smoking! Do you know how much tax revenue tobacco brings in? Ugh, use your brains people!!! This is not about getting people to stop, it is about getting them to move an entire 50 feet in order not to kill the guy eating next to them. Do you honestly think that by having the tobacco products out of sight, it will stop Joe Schmoe from picking up his daily pack of lucky's? It is a move to deter marketing to the underage. A very weak move, but a move nonetheless. Remove all of your "Da guverment is out to gut us!!" paranoya and see this law for what it is, a act to remove a serious health risk form the general public.

Remember when a politician is telling the truth his lips aren't moving.x do I do like the cooler pack idea. : )
 

Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
Excuse me, I am a little pickeled right now. Just got home from a night out with some good friends, had an AWESOME dinner, had a few beers afterwards, enjoyed the no smoking in the bar afterwards, then went to a local watering hole, no smoking. THANKS WI FOR THE NO SMOKING BAN!! WAHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!
 

xcr440

Well-known member
Awesome Skylar, did the same tonight!

Hey, how does this compare to the seatbelt laws? (MN has one, not sure on WI and MI) Does that unjustly invade my "right" in my car, that I own, as I travel down the highway, to do what I choose in my personal space?

(Disclaimer, I always wear my seatbelt)
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Excuse me, I am a little pickeled right now. Just got home from a night out with some good friends, had an AWESOME dinner, had a few beers afterwards, enjoyed the no smoking in the bar afterwards, then went to a local watering hole, no smoking. THANKS WI FOR THE NO SMOKING BAN!! WAHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!

Communist! :)
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Awesome Skylar, did the same tonight!

Hey, how does this compare to the seatbelt laws? (MN has one, not sure on WI and MI) Does that unjustly invade my "right" in my car, that I own, as I travel down the highway, to do what I choose in my personal space?

(Disclaimer, I always wear my seatbelt)

Nope, 'cause you are using that car on a public highway and the privilege to do so has been granted by the state and has conditions attached.

You can drive around your house all you want with no seatbelt on.
 

coldbear

New member
What ??

Come on John. No where in the Declaration say's it's a privlidge to smoke. It is something that is legal in the States. Then why not BAN the cigs. I don't smoke, never did. But I worked with a lot that did and I never thought I was too good to move out of their smoke. And the few times I was cornered with second hand smoke, the people obliged me by moving away. I bet the FRAMERS of our Constitution were all smoking and drinking the suds when they were contributing their ideas to the writings of that paper. end of rant.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Come on John. No where in the Declaration say's it's a privlidge to smoke. It is something that is legal in the States. Then why not BAN the cigs. I don't smoke, never did. But I worked with a lot that did and I never thought I was too good to move out of their smoke. And the few times I was cornered with second hand smoke, the people obliged me by moving away. I bet the FRAMERS of our Constitution were all smoking and drinking the suds when they were contributing their ideas to the writings of that paper. end of rant.

I gotta give you that, the Declaration of Independence doesn't have anything to do with rights, privileges, or smoking. It is an announcement that the thirteen colonies currently at war with England were now independent.

The Constitution and its amendments, on the other hand, define your rights. They are specific but broad in scope.

You are a bit unclear on this privilege thing. A privilege is granted by a government. At issue here is not the privilege to smoke, that has nothing to do with it, nor does the legality of the product. In a licensing situation the government places restrictions on the licensee as to the requirements associated with the granting of (privelege of) the license.

I own a motel. It is a licensed business. I have to have smoke detectors, beds made a certain way, fire extinguishers, lighted exit signs, and as of July 5th I may not allow anyone to smoke inside the building. If I have dirty sheets, no fire extinguishers, or smoking in the building I lose my business license, that is, I lose my privilege to do business.

The issue that has been debated here for the last month is not a constitutional law issue. The government absolutely, positively has the power to do what it has done. The issue here is that many posters feel that the government is simply too intrusive in our lives, and shouldn't be controlling the behavior of its citizens in the use of a completely legal product. They are concerned that the government will just keep taking these privileges away (the government cannot legislate rights away).

The flaw in that logic is that the government controls our use of perfectly legal products all the time. A car is legal, but you must be 16 to drive, have a license, and have insurance.

With the exception of illegal products or activities you can still pretty much do what you want on your own property because that is a right. You can smoke, drive without a license, get drunk, and shoot out your TV while sitting in your underwear. You can't beat your spouse or sell heroin.

Places of public gathering operate under social conventions (politeness, if you will) and government regulation (privilege). In this case, the social conventions that our society follows did not succeed in stopping smoking in public places. Since fewer than 20% of people smoke, and since the use of the product is hazardous to non users exposed to it, the government legislated where social conventions failed, and many people do not like government legislating social conventions (behavior).

In the last month of discussion, this always leads to the "yeah, but the're gonna take away my snowmobile, my Big Mac, and my guns" argument. The flaw in this argument is that the non smoking majority has successfully convinced the government that smoking injures those that are exposed to it while the smoker is using the product as intended.

The government IS too intrusive in our lives, I agree. But a smoker using a legal product as it is intended to be used is harmful to me. A snowmobiler's use of a legal product (a snowmobile) as it is intended to be used is not harmful to me. Big difference.

People don't like to be told how to behave, particularly not by their government. But the key to this whole argument is that the legal use of tobacco is harmful to the non-user. If you sit next to me in a bar and fart I may not like it but it didn't harm anyone. If cigarette smoking was not harmful to the non-user this would be a totally different argument.

Now, this leads to the "I don't believe the science" argument or the "I don't care you can leave" argument. Well, I do believe the science, and I do believe I have an equal right to frequent public places of commerce without being harmed.

Whether legal or not, using the product AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED cause non users in public places of commerce to be injured. And that's the crux of the whole argument..

To solve the problem one of the two parties must alter their behavior or leave. On one side is 80% of the population and they are not engaging in a behavior harmful to others. The other side is only 20% of the population, and, coincidentally, they are also the portion of the population engaging in the harmful behavior. So, since they are the minority, and their behavior is the cause of the health risk, the government has legislated that in places of public commerce the behavior must not occur.
 

mxz_chris

New member
I gotta give you that, the Declaration of Independence doesn't have anything to do with rights, privileges, or smoking. It is an announcement that the thirteen colonies currently at war with England were now independent.

The Constitution and its amendments, on the other hand, define your rights. They are specific but broad in scope.

You are a bit unclear on this privilege thing. A privilege is granted by a government. At issue here is not the privilege to smoke, that has nothing to do with it, nor does the legality of the product. In a licensing situation the government places restrictions on the licensee as to the requirements associated with the granting of (privelege of) the license.

I own a motel. It is a licensed business. I have to have smoke detectors, beds made a certain way, fire extinguishers, lighted exit signs, and as of July 5th I may not allow anyone to smoke inside the building. If I have dirty sheets, no fire extinguishers, or smoking in the building I lose my business license, that is, I lose my privilege to do business.

The issue that has been debated here for the last month is not a constitutional law issue. The government absolutely, positively has the power to do what it has done. The issue here is that many posters feel that the government is simply too intrusive in our lives, and shouldn't be controlling the behavior of its citizens in the use of a completely legal product. They are concerned that the government will just keep taking these privileges away (the government cannot legislate rights away).

The flaw in that logic is that the government controls our use of perfectly legal products all the time. A car is legal, but you must be 16 to drive, have a license, and have insurance.

With the exception of illegal products or activities you can still pretty much do what you want on your own property because that is a right. You can smoke, drive without a license, get drunk, and shoot out your TV while sitting in your underwear. You can't beat your spouse or sell heroin.

Places of public gathering operate under social conventions (politeness, if you will) and government regulation (privilege). In this case, the social conventions that our society follows did not succeed in stopping smoking in public places. Since fewer than 20% of people smoke, and since the use of the product is hazardous to non users exposed to it, the government legislated where social conventions failed, and many people do not like government legislating social conventions (behavior).

In the last month of discussion, this always leads to the "yeah, but the're gonna take away my snowmobile, my Big Mac, and my guns" argument. The flaw in this argument is that the non smoking majority has successfully convinced the government that smoking injures those that are exposed to it while the smoker is using the product as intended.

The government IS too intrusive in our lives, I agree. But a smoker using a legal product as it is intended to be used is harmful to me. A snowmobiler's use of a legal product (a snowmobile) as it is intended to be used is not harmful to me. Big difference.

People don't like to be told how to behave, particularly not by their government. But the key to this whole argument is that the legal use of tobacco is harmful to the non-user. If you sit next to me in a bar and fart I may not like it but it didn't harm anyone. If cigarette smoking was not harmful to the non-user this would be a totally different argument.

Now, this leads to the "I don't believe the science" argument or the "I don't care you can leave" argument. Well, I do believe the science, and I do believe I have an equal right to frequent public places of commerce without being harmed.

Whether legal or not, using the product AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED cause non users in public places of commerce to be injured. And that's the crux of the whole argument..

To solve the problem one of the two parties must alter their behavior or leave. On one side is 80% of the population and they are not engaging in a behavior harmful to others. The other side is only 20% of the population, and, coincidentally, they are also the portion of the population engaging in the harmful behavior. So, since they are the minority, and their behavior is the cause of the health risk, the government has legislated that in places of public commerce the behavior must not occur.

As you know from my posts, I am on your side. Here's a little devil's advocate for you.
Many of us see what POTUS is doing, Obamacare, the financial bill, cap & trade, and believe (as I do) that they are doing an end-around of the constitution, therefore "legislating away our rights". I truly believe this is a rational fear.

The snowmobile analogy, about not harming others, is at risk also. As part of his agenda, there is a movement towards Environmental Justice. The EPA has just stated that this is their new priority. This blanket policy is aimed directly at us polluters. This, if allowed to go unchecked, will be how they outlaw snowmobiling. They are already starting by restricting their use in "wild" areas, and will move from there. This is the slippery slope many feel we are sliding down on our cigarette packs.
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
I think the horse is dead. Majority rules. End of story. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch. Hope you're not the lamb next time.
 
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