Smoking Ban?? Update??

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fusion

Guest
dcsnomo said:
Sure, no problem....

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/factsheets/factsheet6.html

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS

http://www.oehha.org/air/environmental_tobacco/netsexec.html

Concerning your question about "occasional breath of 2nd hand [sic] smoke" this is the summary from the Surgeon General's report:

There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Studies have shown that even low levels of secondhand smoke exposure can be harmful. The only way to fully protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke exposure is to completely eliminate smoking in indoor spaces. Separating smokers from nonsmokers, cleaning the air, and ventilating buildings cannot completely eliminate secondhand smoke exposure.

Supporting data is in the report.
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How about bus fumes - is there a safe inhalable level? The guy worried about inhaling smoke while outdoors should be writing letters to his local officials about all those nasty bus fumes - I'm sure he's in some sort of immenent danger from diesel fuel combustion from improperly tuned bus engines. This gets funnier by the minute.
 
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mxz_chris

New member
fusion said:
Very happy the board mods missed the edit of the response so at least I know you got the original intent of the message. If you are complaining about two guys smoking while outdoors, in close proximity to you, whether that would be 2 meters, 10 meters or 100, I still stand by my original assessment. I'd say you have way too much time on your hands to find things to complain about in life.
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Why do you keep missing what many here have said? It is just a matter of considering how your actions effect (affect?-Nash, a little help) others. I was out trying to get myself more healthy by running, and these guys couldn't wait 5 more seconds to kill themselves. The lack of this consideration is the reason the Gov. stepped in. I was simply pointing out one more example of this. People who lack the ability to consider others, usually can't understand the concept.
 
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cat_man_mike

New member
As I have been reading and contributing to this thread for what seems like a month and a half now, I have an observation. One side of the arguement is stating their case by providing facts, scientific studies (dcsnomo, very nice work), and comparable realistic scenerios to try to support their point of view. The other side is trying to use paranoia, propiganda, and apples to oranges comparisons to try to prove their point. Neither side will ever see the others point of view because facts are facts and they prove themselves, and propiganda is a very powerful thing once you buy into it.
 
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Firecatguy

New member
dave_b said:
So.....

How are those watering holes holding up? Any news?

Just curious...
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mosquito said:
The Mosquito Inn is still down about 35 to 40 percent compared to last year at this time. We have talked to several other bar owners and bartenders in the area and it is about the same in South Range, Houghton, Hancock, Greenland and Mass City. Right now people are staying home or at their camps instead of the bars. We will have to see when it get cold again what will happen.
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just need to read the thread to see your answer
 
H

Hoosier

Well-known member
cat_man_mike said:
As I have been reading and contributing to this thread for what seems like a month and a half now, I have an observation. One side of the arguement is stating their case by providing facts, scientific studies (dcsnomo, very nice work), and comparable realistic scenerios to try to support their point of view. The other side is trying to use paranoia, propiganda, and apples to oranges comparisons to try to prove their point. Neither side will ever see the others point of view because facts are facts and they prove themselves, and propiganda is a very powerful thing once you buy into it.
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Funny how the side you support is the one providing the reasonable and apples to apples and statistically-valid arguments!

I happen to fall on the other side as you. Although I've learned A LOT about other's views on this from reading this thread (including your comments), I still fall on the side of the property owner, whom I still believe has a constitutionally protected right to allow consenting adults to use a legal product in a legal manner on private property, provided no one is forced to be there and minors aren't allowed. But I do note that the other side (AT LEAST ON THIS THREAD ON THIS WEBSITE) has valid points as well and isn't just being unreasonable because of a hatred for smoking (which is reasonable given the problems caused by smoking). I have become particularly swayed by the arguments regarding the employees. Although I don't buy it just yet, as I think no one has the right to a certain job, there is something to the fact that the employer is not providing a safe workplace.
 
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Banks93

New member
mxz_chris said:
Why do you keep missing what many here have said? It is just a matter of considering how your actions effect (affect?-Nash, a little help) others. I was out trying to get myself more healthy by running, and these guys couldn't wait 5 more seconds to kill themselves. The lack of this consideration is the reason the Gov. stepped in. I was simply pointing out one more example of this. People who lack the ability to consider others, usually can't understand the concept.
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Why do you keep insisting peoples actions are affecting you if you choose to enter into a place that allows smoking on your choice? Pretty sure you made the choice to enter without being told you had to enter like smokers are being told they have to leave. Now the owner who pays taxes doesn't have the choice to run his/her business how they want to run it.
 
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Banks93

New member
cat_man_mike said:
As I have been reading and contributing to this thread for what seems like a month and a half now, I have an observation. One side of the arguement is stating their case by providing facts, scientific studies (dcsnomo, very nice work), and comparable realistic scenerios to try to support their point of view. The other side is trying to use paranoia, propiganda, and apples to oranges comparisons to try to prove their point. Neither side will ever see the others point of view because facts are facts and they prove themselves, and propiganda is a very powerful thing once you buy into it.
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Ever here the saying "figures lie and Liers figure". Pretty sure you can get numbers and people to state anything you want with money.
 
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mxz_chris

New member
Banks93 said:
Why do you keep insisting peoples actions are affecting you if you choose to enter into a place that allows smoking on your choice? Pretty sure you made the choice to enter without being told you had to enter like smokers are being told they have to leave. Now the owner who pays taxes doesn't have the choice to run his/her business how they want to run it.
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I pay the taxes in the wildlife area/running trails, that I was RUNNING in (not drinking or eating), therefore I am an owner. It was 5;30 A.M., there was a reasonable expectation that I would not be inhaling someone's second hand smoke.
Let's put it this way:
Have you ever been out on a quiet lake fishing with your kids, or at a beach with the family, and some a-hole parks it next to you and just has to show everyone how loud his stereo is? Illegal? Maybe a noise statute, depending on the cop, if you call one. Inconsiderate? Most definitely. Again, it is just a matter of social decorum to think about what your actions do to others around you. My parents brought me up not to be that A-hole.
 
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mxz_chris

New member
Banks93 said:
Why do you keep insisting peoples actions are affecting you if you choose to enter into a place that allows smoking on your choice? Pretty sure you made the choice to enter without being told you had to enter like smokers are being told they have to leave. Now the owner who pays taxes doesn't have the choice to run his/her business how they want to run it.
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Also, nobody says the smokers have to leave, they just can't smoke inside. Big difference.
 
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98panther

New member
"smokers are being told they have to leave"

There is a big difference between....
Being told to leave "to smoke" (step outside). And just being told to leave.

It can hardly be compared to.... Don't enter if you don't like it.

Hard to believe so many here can't seem to understand that.

Either way smokers can cry all they want - this ship sailed long ago. WI and MI were of the few States left holding out.
 
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Firecatguy

New member
mxz_chris said:
I pay the taxes in the wildlife area/running trails, that I was RUNNING in (not drinking or eating), therefore I am an owner. It was 5;30 A.M., there was a reasonable expectation that I would not be inhaling someone's second hand smoke.
Let's put it this way:
Have you ever been out on a quiet lake fishing with your kids, or at a beach with the family, and some a-hole parks it next to you and just has to show everyone how loud his stereo is? Illegal? Maybe a noise statute, depending on the cop, if you call one. Inconsiderate? Most definitely. Again, it is just a matter of social decorum to think about what your actions do to others around you. My parents brought me up not to be that A-hole.
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its just funny that you would use the analogy that you own the park.....seems that your tax dollar gets you the "right" to tell every one how to live and use THEIR space....but i guess your tax dollar bought and payed for the bar down the block......what next NO smoking in parks,cars shoot your on a roll now maybe come take our guns next.....funny how you think you own the world!!!!
 
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700classic

New member
Who started this thread? Bryan, I hope your happy now! Can't wait for snow to get here so we can argue about important things like Oil, 2's vs 4's, off-trail vs on-trail, the DNR cops. This thread will never end unless someone kills it! OK I'm done, carry on folks. Have a nice night!
 
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