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Snowmobile fees - unfair law ?????
- Thread starter lazer103
- Start date
Yes
What is the average cost of a membership to a local club? Around $20/year?
So money wise, it would be a wash.
That, too. The club would be able to boast higher membership numbers, but that doesn't necessarily translate into CONTRIBUTING (effort-wise) members.
yeah more or less but it gets them in the door.
in my parts the clubs I am a member in the yr dues for the club are different .
but say the yr due is 20 bucks at one out of that 20 bucks 10 goes to MNUSA the main club for the state and the other 10 goes to the local club.
now when I pay my dues at other MN clubs I belong to like the club 3.5 hrs from my home the dues are 15 but because I am already a member of MNUSA through a diff club the dues are only 5 bucks.
I do 0 work at any clubs far from my home but I try to buy all the tickets and some wearable s and always toss a 20 in when grabbing a map any place.
BTW if u ride in MN drop extra cash in the map boxes when u can funding is way down this yr
in my parts the clubs I am a member in the yr dues for the club are different .
but say the yr due is 20 bucks at one out of that 20 bucks 10 goes to MNUSA the main club for the state and the other 10 goes to the local club.
now when I pay my dues at other MN clubs I belong to like the club 3.5 hrs from my home the dues are 15 but because I am already a member of MNUSA through a diff club the dues are only 5 bucks.
I do 0 work at any clubs far from my home but I try to buy all the tickets and some wearable s and always toss a 20 in when grabbing a map any place.
BTW if u ride in MN drop extra cash in the map boxes when u can funding is way down this yr
D
Deleted member 10829
Guest
russholio,
Although it would be great if every club member actually helped out on the trails, it's actually more important to get the $ into the clubs with the membership fees. Even if you can't physically help, your money is needed even more.
Everyone should join a club and be active as you can, and if that means doing nothing, that's better than not joining IMO. Once you are active in a snowmobile club, a person's view of things trail related changes big time! Tons of work is needed to keep these trails open and rideable.
Although it would be great if every club member actually helped out on the trails, it's actually more important to get the $ into the clubs with the membership fees. Even if you can't physically help, your money is needed even more.
Everyone should join a club and be active as you can, and if that means doing nothing, that's better than not joining IMO. Once you are active in a snowmobile club, a person's view of things trail related changes big time! Tons of work is needed to keep these trails open and rideable.
anonomoose
New member
It is clear that this bill is designed to enhance club membership. In truth joining a club will cost you far more than the added cost to trail ride without club membership once you consider the time and gas money to be "involved" in a club. It sucks time and money at every turn, which is likely to be one of the reasons that membership has fallen, and most clubs I have belonged to have an average age of 50 which doesn't make the clubs a good place to meet others who are younger....something that has been missing in club membership (maybe a staggered club membership removing some if not all of the membership costs away from those who can afford it the least???).
Still seems to me that this does boarder on the side of extortion, or perhaps a less harsh term would be perhaps something else, but bills like this often get tossed because it does not afford equality.
If it does pass, and you live 3 hours away, start your own "club" and get locals to join, even if you just drink beer and look at each others sleds in the barn.
Still seems to me that this does boarder on the side of extortion, or perhaps a less harsh term would be perhaps something else, but bills like this often get tossed because it does not afford equality.
If it does pass, and you live 3 hours away, start your own "club" and get locals to join, even if you just drink beer and look at each others sleds in the barn.
russholio,
Although it would be great if every club member actually helped out on the trails, it's actually more important to get the $ into the clubs with the membership fees. Even if you can't physically help, your money is needed even more.
Everyone should join a club and be active as you can, and if that means doing nothing, that's better than not joining IMO. Once you are active in a snowmobile club, a person's view of things trail related changes big time! Tons of work is needed to keep these trails open and rideable.
I don't disagree....but my question is, if I'm a club member paying a $15 trail permit fee and $20 dues, is it really any different from a non-club member paying a $35 trail permit fee?
Personally, for now, I'd almost rather be a non-club member, pay the higher fee, and help out when and where I can, than pay a lower permit fee and be in that 80% - 90% non-contributing faction that everybody complains about.
D
Deleted member 10829
Guest
I see your point where the $ amount is the same, but there is always strength in numbers and I feel we have a better chance of getting things accomplished with a large membership in clubs.
The original post was on the fairness of the bill which is designed to increase the revenue for Wisconsin's trail system. As a non-resident of WI I can pay $15 or $35 per year per sled to enjoy the sport where a resident only pays $15 the bill proposes a 3 tiered system of passes 1 for resident club member, 1 for resident non-club and 1 for the non-resident. This to me seems more complicated and will cost more in administration not to mention enforcement costs. Our friends in Michigan have 1 cost for the trail pass, problem solved however they do run their trail system differently than in Wisconsin. Bottom line is they need more money and those of us that use the trails will pay it.
As with all fees,licenses and taxes it is the "distribution" that is the scary part.
That's one nice part about the club membership. You pay your $20 and $10 goes to AWSC and $10 goes directly into the clubs coffers. Its either that or give $20 to the state and then they have to turn around and distribute it to the clubs.
It seems as though most people see this law as a penalty for not being in a club. I believe this law is fair because everyone ends up paying the same, regardless of club membership. I believe it would be unfair to require those that have already contributed to a club to pay up again for a permit. Although if a club member were allowed to buy multiple trail passes(large family or rental fleet), Club membership would be a big savings.
Right now there is a state law that ensures all money raised from the sale of registration stickers stays in the snowmobiling cofers. I do not know how this law pertains to trail permits, and this is one thing I am going to find out at the convention, and also that this law is not changed to allow the DNR to retain money for other areas of spending. As far as joining a club and not being able to do much, I tell people all the time, just join, I don't care if you go to the meetings, the meetings are really only for the poeple who want to get involved with paperwork, and political side of the sport. Are club is always hurting for workers, and If you joing and can just find one saturday to commit to marking or brushing trails, that is all we really need. For example, with about 15-20 guys, we can mark every mile of trail my club maintains in one Saturday. Some years we only have 4-6 and it takes 3 saturdays. If there are guys that don't want to go to the meetings, but would help that one saturday, thats huge in our club. Some members never do anything, but when the club needs equipment they may have to get a job done, they donate and we can get it done. Point is, nothing is too small to contribute. Don't not join cause you think you can't contribute enough, they will take what you can do. Just join to at least get on the mailing, emai, or text list, so you at least know when events or trail work is coming up, and who knows, you might be able to make something work in your schedule!
I see your point where the $ amount is the same, but there is always strength in numbers and I feel we have a better chance of getting things accomplished with a large membership in clubs.
Right now there is a state law that ensures all money raised from the sale of registration stickers stays in the snowmobiling cofers. I do not know how this law pertains to trail permits, and this is one thing I am going to find out at the convention, and also that this law is not changed to allow the DNR to retain money for other areas of spending. As far as joining a club and not being able to do much, I tell people all the time, just join, I don't care if you go to the meetings, the meetings are really only for the poeple who want to get involved with paperwork, and political side of the sport. Are club is always hurting for workers, and If you joing and can just find one saturday to commit to marking or brushing trails, that is all we really need. For example, with about 15-20 guys, we can mark every mile of trail my club maintains in one Saturday. Some years we only have 4-6 and it takes 3 saturdays. If there are guys that don't want to go to the meetings, but would help that one saturday, thats huge in our club. Some members never do anything, but when the club needs equipment they may have to get a job done, they donate and we can get it done. Point is, nothing is too small to contribute. Don't not join cause you think you can't contribute enough, they will take what you can do. Just join to at least get on the mailing, emai, or text list, so you at least know when events or trail work is coming up, and who knows, you might be able to make something work in your schedule!
Excellent points!
Charge me what ever you want. Seriously if the trails are smooth and safe, does it really matter what you paid? Before the guy with a family of 10 jumps all over me I also think that Michigan should have some type of JR. Trail permit to offset the cost. Currently I don't think they charge enough for trail permits. If you got into snowmobiling to save money then..............lol good luck. For someone to go spend all this money on snowmobiling in general and finally get to trail to find a washboard of bumps.....well that just sucks.
So my answer to the question would be NO. It's not fair that your only paying $35 or $15.
So my answer to the question would be NO. It's not fair that your only paying $35 or $15.
Here's a brainfart,
Seems like it would be easier to make a flat state registration fee for all sleds of $10/year for the DNR. Beyond that, they keep their noses out of the money and out of our business.
Make a trail pass system: $25 resident and $35 nonresident. If you show proof of current club membership within the state, when you purchase your state trail pass, the pass will cost ya $10 regardless of residency.
All clubs charge $25/year membership dues. $15 stays in the club, $10 goes to AWSC for disbursement
All funds collected from all of the trail passes would be divided equally among all clubs for trail maintenance
Seems like it would be easier to make a flat state registration fee for all sleds of $10/year for the DNR. Beyond that, they keep their noses out of the money and out of our business.
Make a trail pass system: $25 resident and $35 nonresident. If you show proof of current club membership within the state, when you purchase your state trail pass, the pass will cost ya $10 regardless of residency.
All clubs charge $25/year membership dues. $15 stays in the club, $10 goes to AWSC for disbursement
All funds collected from all of the trail passes would be divided equally among all clubs for trail maintenance
but the big diff is if U are in a club that money goes directly to the trail.I don't disagree....but my question is, if I'm a club member paying a $15 trail permit fee and $20 dues, is it really any different from a non-club member paying a $35 trail permit fee?
Personally, for now, I'd almost rather be a non-club member, pay the higher fee, and help out when and where I can, than pay a lower permit fee and be in that 80% - 90% non-contributing faction that everybody complains about.
when u just buy the sticker the state has the final say on how much and where that money goes.
now if U have full faith in your state government to distribute all that money to clubs and not find any detours to the general fund.
then go for it let the state do it for u and hope for the best
but the big diff is if U are in a club that money goes directly to the trail.
when u just buy the sticker the state has the final say on how much and where that money goes.
now if U have full faith in your state government to distribute all that money to clubs and not find any detours to the general fund.
then go for it let the state do it for u and hope for the best
In that case, it makes more sense to me. I think maybe the system works differently in Wisconsin. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the majority of the money from trail permit sales in Michigan goes back into the trails, or at least, to the grant sponsors.