snowthrower/engine fogging.

[snowfish]

I will take pics if needed. I will unwravel my scrap pile to find the crank and case just to show you there isn't a single bearing in it. Connecting rod is hooked right onto the piston pin, no bearing at all. I couldn't believe it, I texted acatzl550 about it nd he was bored so he came over, NO BEARINGS. It's metal on metal with a small oil slot to lube it up, it's kind of like a ball joint, no bearing.

My car engine is the same. No Bearings in the engine. Well, as long as we define bearings as being either rollers or balls. Same gig. Metal on metal with a little, tiny, oil hole. Still a bearing. Just different than what you've dealt with so far.

Another reason to change oil at regular intervals.

I give you a lot of credit, Indy, for your growing mechanical knowledge & skills.

"A wise man seeks council"

 

[indy_500]

My car engine is the same. No Bearings in the engine. Well, as long as we define bearings as being either rollers or balls. Same gig. Metal on metal with a little, tiny, oil hole. Still a bearing. Just different than what you've dealt with so far.

Another reason to change oil at regular intervals.

I give you a lot of credit, Indy, for your growing mechanical knowledge & skills.

"A wise man seeks council"

I figured in the definition of bearings, it is some sort of bearing, but I just don't get how it lasts that long.

This is what I got off wikipedia

Plain bearing

Rubbing surfaces, usually with lubricant; some bearings use pumped lubrication and behave similarly to fluid bearings.

Depends on materials and construction, PTFE has coefficient of friction ~0.05-0.35, depending upon fillers added

Good, provided wear is low, but some slack is normally present

Low to very high

Low to very high - depends upon application and lubrication

Widely used, relatively high friction, suffers from stiction in some applications. Depending upon the application, lifetime can be higher or lower than rolling element bearings.

 

[snowfish]

I just don't get how it lasts that long.

In the perfect world, the two surfaces never touch. The oil film separates the two.

As the oil breaks down, and contaminants are introduced, the surfaces make contact more and more. This introduces more contaminants and compounds the wearing effect.

In non pressurized engines (dipper system), we're counting on capillary action to draw the oil in. Like if you've ever had a blood sample taken. They use that little tube and the blood defies gravity (draws in) all on it's own. Try that will a McDonalds straw and nothing happens.

That's why the tolerances are so tight. As the bearings wear, it becomes more like the McDonalds straw. Things start knocking and them it's all over.

Roller bearings are used due to the minimal oil being introduced. (two strokes) Friction reduction is accomplished by lightly oiling the contact surfaces & mechanically (rollers or balls) due to the low oil volume.

This is the primary reason why 4 Strokes, with a pressurized system, last many times longer. The oil is forced through all of the little oil ports & galleys.

Clog up those ports, or let contaminates enlarge the bearing tolerances, and the pressure is greatly reduced. The result is more bearing contact, less oil, more contaminants, and the damage escalates quite quickly.

Indy you're a great mechanic now, and wise beyond your years. Keep going friend! Your destined for greatness!

 

[acatzl550]

there wasnt any bearings on the crank or connecting rod, but there were some holes to let oil in

 

[lenny]

yea, these are disposable motors. When I was 14 I was riding mini bikes and go carts. Blew a few up from extended hi rpms. I had Tecumseh and Brigg's from the 60-70's. You could repair and work on these old things

 

[G]

If I remember correctly the old Chevy Vegas also had an all aluminum engine. Don't see many of those around anymore. With the disposable nature of so many products we now have it cant hurt to give them all the breaks we can. When I originally read the thread title I thought 'What fool would fog a 4 stroke?' But now I say go for it. They all need all the help they can get. Any oil or fogging potion is better than corrosion. And many new small motors will not tolerate anything less than perfection. Sea and Snow, Marvel Mystery, SeaFoam - dump it in!!!! Your spark plug budget might go up a little but at least you will be running.

 

[favoritos]

I followed this thread kinda wondering about the need to fog the motor? Good discussion going on over the whole subject.

One thing comes to mind though. Snowblowers are stored during the summer. Isn't winter the time of year we need to worry about condensation etc. with the extreme temperature shifts?

I have been more concerned about the metal chute and auger with the salt. For those, I just spray them down with silicone.

 

[lenny]

I followed this thread kinda wondering about the need to fog the motor? Good discussion going on over the whole subject.

One thing comes to mind though. Snowblowers are stored during the summer. Isn't winter the time of year we need to worry about condensation etc. with the extreme temperature shifts?

I have been more concerned about the metal chute and auger with the salt. For those, I just spray them down with silicone.

good point but that does point to uncertainties. I guess you just never know what the weather has in store. I just fog em and know they are lubricated. My buddy had an 03 rev 600 ho and those were notorious for ring problems. His also had a warped head and filling up his crankcase with coolant. He just drained it and rode it. One winter after we cleaned the carbs and got her ready, first ride she blew the bottom end crank bearing, plenty of corrosion and visible rust. Mains hate corrosion. That turned me into a person who fogs the motors

 

[Admin]

Actually, your best chances for condensation are in the spring and summer. Much higher atmospheric moisture content in those seasons and that is the number one factor for condensation, not temps. All it takes is a nice cool morning, leading to a hot and humid day and bam, you have condensation.

I run into this all the time in my woodworking shop. I watch temps and dewpoint very closely and when we get a big change to the upside in humidity after a cool morning, I run to the shop and spray all the bare metal and cast iron pieces with either T9 or WD40.

-John

 

[favoritos]

Thanks for the input John. I had not really thought about it that way.

We live in an area where they use a lot of salt on the streets. The vehicles always drop slush in the garage. The garage is actually wet most of the winter from all the melted snow. So we probably do not have a normal winter environment in the garage.

 

[lenny]

Keep in mind another important aspect. Often if you have a sled outdoors in the winter and bring it into a heated shop you can see metal parts sweat, or maybe you'll see a frost line around the outside of your tank where the fuel level is, probably because what John mentioned. So it is not just limited to summer and spring but more favorable to the conditions John mentioned. Odds are you'll be running it during that time and it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[xcr440]

Actually, your best chances for condensation are in the spring and summer. Much higher atmospheric moisture content in those seasons and that is the number one factor for condensation, not temps. All it takes is a nice cool morning, leading to a hot and humid day and bam, you have condensation.

I run into this all the time in my woodworking shop. I watch temps and dewpoint very closely and when we get a big change to the upside in humidity after a cool morning, I run to the shop and spray all the bare metal and cast iron pieces with either T9 or WD40.

-John

X2

I try not to open the garage door on a humid day when the garage is cool, or BAM, rusty surface on the wood tools. Imagine what that does to the inside of a motor.

 

[G]

Keep your toys fresh. Trade the minute warranty runs out. That way you don't have to worry about any of this. We live in an age of disposable everything. Don't try to outsmart the system - play the game. Keep it fresh.

 

[indy_500]

Got a free chev 350 tonight. Sat empty with oil, got it from some farmers whose barns fell over in the tornadoes we had a few weeks ago. Let's just say, she's a tad bit rusty. Tore it down in 2.5 hours, taking it in for scrap got pics in misc. now