ddhanna
Active member
WI DNR does not decide how funds will be used. Snowmobile Recreation council (SRC) does a great job with this.
The Future of our sport
- Thread starter attakman
- Start date
hermie
Well-known member
I believe Michigan trail permit is going to be between $62-65 next year. I heard $65 is going to be the number. I also heard from a couple of club members that the $10 trail permit if your a club member and have Wi. registration isn't working out like they hoped. What have you heard Attackman
Airman68
Active member
I wonder why the $10 Wi permit thing isn't working. Seems like a no brainer if you own more than 1 sled to pay the club fee for the discount passes. I do it mainly to support the clubs one way or the other. The MI pass price is getting up there. Personally, if WI has snow, I'm staying down here but the last 2 years gave me no choice but to go up there.
ddhanna
Active member
I think it is working for the sport financially. It just isn't increasing club participation as hoped.
hermie
Well-known member
Yes I believe this is the issue. They were hoping for more participation but definitely hasn't been the case except in rare instances like in Mercer and Boulder in December after the big storm
Same thing...not making enough money...I was told Michigan was thinking about going to $100 dollars for out of state sledders...again just a rumor I haven't been able to verify, that's why I asked here
if you can't get it to open....this is what it says
The bill makes several changes to snowmobile registration and trail pass fees. 1. It increases the fee for a three-year snowmobile public use registration from $30 to $45. 2. It increases fees for trail passes as follows: a. For a snowmobile registered in-state, from $29.25 to $49.25. b. For a snowmobile registered in-state but owned by a person who is both a member of a snowmobile club and a member of the Association of Wisconsin Snowmobile Clubs, from $9.25 to $19.25. c. For a snowmobile registered out-of-state, from $49.25 to $69.25. Fiscal Effect A. Revenue Sales of snowmobile registrations and trail passes can be difficult to estimate due to weather/snowfall, economic factors, competition from other recreational activities, etc. For example, over the last six years, sales of in-state public registrations varied by over 40,000--from a high of 107,600 in FY 2023 to a low of 62,700 in FY 2020. Therefore, to estimate the revenue impact of the bill, the department is using a six-year average of registration and trail pass sales. 1. Sales of public registrations for snowmobiles averaged 82,891/yr. over the last six years. Therefore, a $15 increase would generate an estimated $1,243,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (82,891 * $15). 2. Sales of in-state "non-club" trail passes averaged 74,973/yr. over the last six years. Therefore, a $20 increase would generate an estimated $1,499,500 in snowmobile account revenue (74,973 * $20). 3. Sales of non-resident trail passes averaged 19,919 over the last six years. Therefore, a $20 increase would generate an estimated $398,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (19,919 * $20). 4. Sales of in-state "club" trail passes averaged 61,941 over the last six years. Therefore, a $10 increase would generate an estimated $619,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (61,941 * $10). 5. In total, based on a six-year sales average, the bill would increase annual snowmobile account revenue by an estimated $3,760,700 (1,243,400 + 1,499,500 + 398,400 + 619,400). B. One-Time Costs Two tasks are required for the department to implement new registration and trail pass fees: 1. Updating and testing in the Go Wild system; and 2. Coordinating with our vendor on the postcard snowmobile registration renewal process. The department estimates that 100 hours of staff time would be required for an IS Business Automation Specialist-Senior to implement the changes within 6 months after the bill is signed into law, at an estimated cost of $6,100 ($41.07/hr. salary + $19.95/hr. fringe benefits = $61.02/hour *100 hours). Note that additional staff time for outreach and communications may be needed if the bill is enacted into law in the middle of a snowmobile season Long-Range Fiscal Implication
The bill makes several changes to snowmobile registration and trail pass fees. 1. It increases the fee for a three-year snowmobile public use registration from $30 to $45. 2. It increases fees for trail passes as follows: a. For a snowmobile registered in-state, from $29.25 to $49.25. b. For a snowmobile registered in-state but owned by a person who is both a member of a snowmobile club and a member of the Association of Wisconsin Snowmobile Clubs, from $9.25 to $19.25. c. For a snowmobile registered out-of-state, from $49.25 to $69.25. Fiscal Effect A. Revenue Sales of snowmobile registrations and trail passes can be difficult to estimate due to weather/snowfall, economic factors, competition from other recreational activities, etc. For example, over the last six years, sales of in-state public registrations varied by over 40,000--from a high of 107,600 in FY 2023 to a low of 62,700 in FY 2020. Therefore, to estimate the revenue impact of the bill, the department is using a six-year average of registration and trail pass sales. 1. Sales of public registrations for snowmobiles averaged 82,891/yr. over the last six years. Therefore, a $15 increase would generate an estimated $1,243,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (82,891 * $15). 2. Sales of in-state "non-club" trail passes averaged 74,973/yr. over the last six years. Therefore, a $20 increase would generate an estimated $1,499,500 in snowmobile account revenue (74,973 * $20). 3. Sales of non-resident trail passes averaged 19,919 over the last six years. Therefore, a $20 increase would generate an estimated $398,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (19,919 * $20). 4. Sales of in-state "club" trail passes averaged 61,941 over the last six years. Therefore, a $10 increase would generate an estimated $619,400/yr. in snowmobile account revenue (61,941 * $10). 5. In total, based on a six-year sales average, the bill would increase annual snowmobile account revenue by an estimated $3,760,700 (1,243,400 + 1,499,500 + 398,400 + 619,400). B. One-Time Costs Two tasks are required for the department to implement new registration and trail pass fees: 1. Updating and testing in the Go Wild system; and 2. Coordinating with our vendor on the postcard snowmobile registration renewal process. The department estimates that 100 hours of staff time would be required for an IS Business Automation Specialist-Senior to implement the changes within 6 months after the bill is signed into law, at an estimated cost of $6,100 ($41.07/hr. salary + $19.95/hr. fringe benefits = $61.02/hour *100 hours). Note that additional staff time for outreach and communications may be needed if the bill is enacted into law in the middle of a snowmobile season Long-Range Fiscal Implication
indy_500
Well-known member
Great info. I am ALL for the increases mentioned, except I think $50 to $70 for out of state is too steep. I think a $10 increase would suffice there. The current $30 for 3 years reg, and $10/$30 yearly trail passes is too cheap for how much it costs to operate groomers. For how much everything else has inflated, it only makes sense the price should go up to keep our trail system funded properly.
Indy's response about letting the retired folks take care of it, is a problem. I'm not trying to pick on you, but that is the exact attitude of why we cannot get volunteers. I'll just let someone else take care of.... I know you tried in the past with your local clubs, but there are other clubs out there that need your help. One day of work on trails, or any computer work(snow reporting, SNARs, etc.) goes along way to help out.
I'll give an example of my club. We have 2 retired guys. My dad retired 5 years ago and just started helping the club a huge way. He unfortunately passed away last fall. He was only 68, and I have seen a lot of his buddies start dying off also. Cancer unfortunately.
The other guy was laid off in the winter, so he had weeks of free time to help with trails and groom. Now that he's fully retired, he can no longer swing a hammer. He has major shoulder and back injuries. He can still groom. Still retired, but cannot help with the trails. I still use his guidance and knowledge for issues and marking.
The other guy is about to retire, but he's been doing this for the last 25 years. He took over the club president when he was 40 years old. He's about burned out. Especially with all the work we put it, and maybe a weekend of open trails.
What about the current generation in the 40's and 50's that dropped out of snowmobiling completely? Those retired folks will not be helping in the future. Majority of my riding buddies from the early 20's no longer ride, and will not ride any time soon. A lot of kids activities, and the price/weather/economics prevent them from getting back into the sport. 2 of them just bought side by sides. They can use them 10 months out of the year.
I'll give an example of my club. We have 2 retired guys. My dad retired 5 years ago and just started helping the club a huge way. He unfortunately passed away last fall. He was only 68, and I have seen a lot of his buddies start dying off also. Cancer unfortunately.
The other guy was laid off in the winter, so he had weeks of free time to help with trails and groom. Now that he's fully retired, he can no longer swing a hammer. He has major shoulder and back injuries. He can still groom. Still retired, but cannot help with the trails. I still use his guidance and knowledge for issues and marking.
The other guy is about to retire, but he's been doing this for the last 25 years. He took over the club president when he was 40 years old. He's about burned out. Especially with all the work we put it, and maybe a weekend of open trails.
What about the current generation in the 40's and 50's that dropped out of snowmobiling completely? Those retired folks will not be helping in the future. Majority of my riding buddies from the early 20's no longer ride, and will not ride any time soon. A lot of kids activities, and the price/weather/economics prevent them from getting back into the sport. 2 of them just bought side by sides. They can use them 10 months out of the year.
Sam and the legislative team did a great job with the new funding bill.
I'll get more updates this weekend at the AWSC convention, but it looks like the bill is still in the Senate. https://fastdemocracy.com/bill-search/wi/2025-2026/bills/WIB00015488/
Here's some more info on the Bill that was emailed on 2/7:
SB700- Our funding bill is getting ready to be released to the Full Senate.
We currently have Senators Tomczyk, Fayen, Marklein, Pfaff, Ratcliff, Keyeski, Dassler-Alfheim, And Sprietzer as co-sponsors. I am told we will need more Senate supporters to get it passed. We will need to get as many Senators to vote in support of this to get it passed. There is some urgency, as both the Senate and Assembly want to wrap up for this session in the next few weeks. If it isn't passed by them, we start all over next session.
I have again included our instructions and reasoning for you to have in front of you...
Keep in mind that there is a 75 cent administration fee tacked on to each trail pass, so our proposed legislation will reflect this.
Here it is...
· Our AWSC Club Pass is currently $9.25. We want to increase it to $19.25.
· The DNR (Non Club) Pass is currently $29.25. We want to increase it to $49.25.
· The Out of State Trail Pass is currently $49.25. We want to increase it to $69.25.
· Our current snowmobile registration is $30 for 3 Years. We want to increase it to $45 for
3 years. (There are no admin fee charges tacked on to our registration.)
·Here is the reasoning to support our request...
· Our last fee and registration increase was in 2013 when Act 142, the Trail Pass program was enacted. We are self funded, using no taxpayer dollars. The providers and users of the trail system are asking for these increases and are willing to pay them to maintain our system.
· This past year, our program fund was nearly $4 million dollars short of funding needed infrastructure projects requested by our clubs and alliances.
· According to DNR records, our trail infrastructure projects have more than doubled in cost since the 2014-15 season to an average of over $63,000 each.
· The equipment and labor rate reimbursements we receive have only increased 30% since 2013. An example: Our Top equipment and reimbursement rate is only $100/hour.
· We have not had the money to approve funding for any unfunded trails. Last year, we had around 400 miles of requests. Generally, these trails are already being provided 100% by our clubs.
·The biggest expenses our organizations have to incur is trail grooming equipment:
· We have seen tracked grooming power units increase nearly 60% since 2013. An average unit is now around $267k
· Many of our clubs utilize Ag tractors with tracks for power units. We have seen them increase around 85% since 2017. An average unit is now $309k.
· The drags we pull with those power units have nearly doubled since 2013. An average drag is now over $26k.
At the current trail pass and registration fee pricing, we feel our trail grant program cannot sustain itself. This increase will help shore up this situation.
We need as many folks as we can to contact your senators for support. You can place your address in the "Who Are My Legislators" on the front page of the Wisconsin Legislature Homepage https://legis.wisconsin.gov/ to get their contact information. You can also find out the steps to do so on the AWSC Website under Powerpoint Presentations.
I'll get more updates this weekend at the AWSC convention, but it looks like the bill is still in the Senate. https://fastdemocracy.com/bill-search/wi/2025-2026/bills/WIB00015488/
Here's some more info on the Bill that was emailed on 2/7:
SB700- Our funding bill is getting ready to be released to the Full Senate.
We currently have Senators Tomczyk, Fayen, Marklein, Pfaff, Ratcliff, Keyeski, Dassler-Alfheim, And Sprietzer as co-sponsors. I am told we will need more Senate supporters to get it passed. We will need to get as many Senators to vote in support of this to get it passed. There is some urgency, as both the Senate and Assembly want to wrap up for this session in the next few weeks. If it isn't passed by them, we start all over next session.
I have again included our instructions and reasoning for you to have in front of you...
Keep in mind that there is a 75 cent administration fee tacked on to each trail pass, so our proposed legislation will reflect this.
Here it is...
· Our AWSC Club Pass is currently $9.25. We want to increase it to $19.25.
· The DNR (Non Club) Pass is currently $29.25. We want to increase it to $49.25.
· The Out of State Trail Pass is currently $49.25. We want to increase it to $69.25.
· Our current snowmobile registration is $30 for 3 Years. We want to increase it to $45 for
3 years. (There are no admin fee charges tacked on to our registration.)
·Here is the reasoning to support our request...
· Our last fee and registration increase was in 2013 when Act 142, the Trail Pass program was enacted. We are self funded, using no taxpayer dollars. The providers and users of the trail system are asking for these increases and are willing to pay them to maintain our system.
· This past year, our program fund was nearly $4 million dollars short of funding needed infrastructure projects requested by our clubs and alliances.
· According to DNR records, our trail infrastructure projects have more than doubled in cost since the 2014-15 season to an average of over $63,000 each.
· The equipment and labor rate reimbursements we receive have only increased 30% since 2013. An example: Our Top equipment and reimbursement rate is only $100/hour.
· We have not had the money to approve funding for any unfunded trails. Last year, we had around 400 miles of requests. Generally, these trails are already being provided 100% by our clubs.
·The biggest expenses our organizations have to incur is trail grooming equipment:
· We have seen tracked grooming power units increase nearly 60% since 2013. An average unit is now around $267k
· Many of our clubs utilize Ag tractors with tracks for power units. We have seen them increase around 85% since 2017. An average unit is now $309k.
· The drags we pull with those power units have nearly doubled since 2013. An average drag is now over $26k.
At the current trail pass and registration fee pricing, we feel our trail grant program cannot sustain itself. This increase will help shore up this situation.
We need as many folks as we can to contact your senators for support. You can place your address in the "Who Are My Legislators" on the front page of the Wisconsin Legislature Homepage https://legis.wisconsin.gov/ to get their contact information. You can also find out the steps to do so on the AWSC Website under Powerpoint Presentations.
indy_500
Well-known member
Im not trying to come off as snarky, but I’ve been hearing the same story for 20+ years, yet every decade comes a new group of 60+ yr old guys ready to take over their local clubs. I just don’t see that changing.
I do however think weather patterns, cost, and land access is the biggest threat to this sport.
Friend of mines dad, not the most avid snowmobiler, retired and moved up to Crandon on Lake Lucerne. Lived in my town for 25 years, never once belonged to a local club his entire life. First year living up there full time he joined the Red Arrow club out of Townsend and in a matter of a few years was their trail boss.
Another friends dad, lived in my town for 40 years. Never belonged to the local club. Extremely avid rider his entire life. Moved up near Pickerel at retirement and joined the LMT club. He is now extremely involved and one of their most dedicated groomers (you may see his hilarious snow dance videos on Facebook from Sonny).
AND this is what I'm seeing over here as well...people who have done this a long time getting out of the sport...One I know said he's selling his sled and will be going south after the holidays every year, to be in warm weather and not have to shovel/snow blow/plow...he's tired of it...He's willing to give up the sport he loves to not have to endure all the stuff that goes with living in the Northwoods in winter....I also had a friend who's in her 60s..sell her sled and trailer, said she's had enough, and a friend of mine whos 53 sold his sled, and bought a cab model utv, with heat and a/c..he's done with the "2 month sport", it's too expensive. I have talked to many club members with in the county (different clubs)...their stories are all the same...the old guys are leaving the sport/retiring from the clubs, and they are taking years of experience and leadership with them....we just aren't seeing the younger folks involved with the sport....it's too expensive
ddhanna
Active member
"The more things change, the more they stay the same." Been going on since the beginning. It'll all be OK.
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Although this has been a discussion for quite sometime it is always good getting opinions out there for the benefit of the sport. Just my opinion, I welcome the increase in trail passes, although it does seem steep. Conversley, have a small trail pass increase every year is the way to go, it lessens the "sticker" shock of one time large jumps. Raise it $3 every year, or whatever increment is fine. I know my group (and this is just my group 10-12 riders) the raise on price wouldnt impact their choice for a Wisco trail pass as they are purchased and regardless of price it isnt even really a topic of discussion. But that cannot be said for Michigan (UP). I purchase a UP pass every year but several of my group riders do not and further increasing Wisco passes would probably impact their possible UP trail pass purchases...minus low snow years.
I also think that Wisco registered SXS should pay a trail pass. I own 2 SXS and they are registered in Wisco. Only registration is required. I wouldnt be upset over paying a yearly trail pass for my SXS as they use alot of the same trails. I do not do any trail brushing for sled clubs, but I do it for the SXS club just do to the fact that I am up north in the summer much longer than winter.
Just my opinions.....
I also think that Wisco registered SXS should pay a trail pass. I own 2 SXS and they are registered in Wisco. Only registration is required. I wouldnt be upset over paying a yearly trail pass for my SXS as they use alot of the same trails. I do not do any trail brushing for sled clubs, but I do it for the SXS club just do to the fact that I am up north in the summer much longer than winter.
Just my opinions.....
There aren't many Utv/snowmobile trails here in Nokomis ....only to the northwest of us in the Willow Region are there joint trails...most of the snowmobile trails here do not allow UTV's on them...it's private land owners that do not want this as the utv's rip up the soil, and land
SledTL
Active member
There is some click bait floating around. Its not going to pass. I still stand by my comment, NE wi is great if you want to put 60 miles on in a day and stop at 8 bars. I like my riding when the number of times I've had to hand signal is less than the digits I have on my hands.
Airman68
Active member
I would agree with SXS having a trail sticker, especially if they use state trails and so forth. Maybe there could be shared revenue for common ATV/Sled trails? Dunno. Just thinking if there was a way to help each other out (sleds and SXS). All the local businesses would benefit from it too.
I lived in Phelps for 16 years and the biggest knock on that area riding east was little to no amenities from Phelps to Spread Eagle good luck finding a hotel , gas or a place to eat so little to no traffic what part of NE WI are you referencing that has all these bars and traffic I would like to stay away from it??