Trail 2 - Losing a section due to change of ownership

snobuilder

Well-known member
Sounds like we should know alot more about a reroute in the next few days. Based on what they are saying they are going for approval on it early in the week then they will post more about it. Hopefully it all goes well. To me just amazing that they could even find a reroute in this short of time. This is an amazing sport with some amazing people dedicated to keep our trails open. Now if we could get the few that don't understand what an amazing privilege it is to do this and stay on the trails respect people private property and ride as quiet as you can it would make these dedicated people job so much easier.
it is abundantly clear who the good guys are. The new owners are leftist hypocrites who hate fossil fuels unless they are used to get their fellow leftists to their door in their Subarus with CC in hand to enrich their capitalist hating reality
 
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euphoric1

Well-known member
especially the leftist apologists
if you are referring to me as a leftist apologist, I never apologized, and still stand by my remarks. 1. I didn't know the track history and the likeliness they wouldn't be willing to work with anyone. 2. it's still their property to do as they wish 3. negativity gets nowhere when wanting to resolve something. 4. Hopefully someday some kind of compromise or agreement can be made, Irregardless if their history shows they aren't willing to come to table. 5. it's unfortunate for everyone with the loss of trail. If you weren't referring to me, I retract my comment. otherwise, I suggest you read it again and again and again. maybe it will sink in eventually.
 

kip

Well-known member
This is just another bridge to cross and it will get done. The assistant attorney general even tried to meet with the so called Skinner and he wouldn't even respond. He hates snowmobiles and could care less how it impacts the area. I respect the opinions of others on here and don't see any reason this needs to steer towards politics. It's just a transplant who wants to profit from the U.P. and happens to be selfish, and with his unwillingness to even hear other's out he deserves to be called out. Enough of the tip toeing around dipshits that come to the U.P. trying to change it. Get ahold of me later and I'll tell you how I really feel! LOL!!
 

heckler56

Active member
I hope that the County & Township trustees take note and don’t make the economy hostage to one business. Building codes should be maintained and a “no variance” policy observed. This facility is responsible for the safety of many many people.
 

xsledder

Active member
They can increase the property taxes of the ski hill to offset lost revenue and provide for a basic income for the residents of the county. ;)
 

goofy600

Well-known member
Actually in this case they can raise taxes because he has done improvements so that increases value so just need to be creative on how much you raise taxes.🤪
 

rph130

Well-known member
I hate to do an about face on this issue because I was vocal about the ski hill not being a good neighbor but new information has me reconsidering. My daughter was a part of all of the meetings and discussions between the ski hill owners and GRTA. She told me that the whole issue revolves around how litigious America has become. The ski hill has deep pockets. They are afraid of a lawsuit because they have deep pockets. Their insurance carrier is requiring them to carry a ridiculous amount of coverage for the snowmobile easement which does not make fiscal sense for them. It all boils down to the ski resort not wanting to pay an extreme insurance premium and worrying about being sued by allowing the trail easement. I'm hearing a reroute is in the works through Ramsay and I hope that works.
 

uncle_ed

Active member
Copied from GRTA page. I dont think they were truthful in all assertions at snowriver. I hope there is a trail reroute that works!

We are tired, weary, and shocked our incredible group of Volunteers known as the GRTA must stop our trail prep in order to combat a large, multimillion-dollar misinformation machine known as Midwest Family Ski Resorts, locally known as Snowriver.
For the record: We are committed to serving our community first! Everyone here at the GRTA is a volunteer – no one is paid a dime – we are a 501c(4) non-profit organization. Several of our impactful Board members do not snowmobile or ride ORVs. These exceptional civic minded citizens serve on the GRTA Board because they believe in the recreational opportunities the GRTA provides and they care deeply about creating and sustaining a positive experience for the 10’s of thousands of motorized recreationists who ride our Trails; and, the significant economic return for our Community. The GRTA - residents and non-residents alike - provide a tremendous benefit for dozens and dozens of businesses. It is with continued regret that we must publicly correct Snowriver’s misinformation and lies.
Lie #1 – Snowriver has asserted the GRTA failed to provide insurance and hold land use agreements:
Truth #1 - The GRTA has held an insurance policy and land use agreements with and for Big Snow Resort, the former name of Snowriver, beginning with the new trail on their property in 2015. When Snowriver purchased Big Snow Resort in September 2022, our land use permits needed to be updated/modified to reflect the new name of the landowner – Snowriver. The continued assertion by Snowriver that we never completed and held this important documentation is preposterous and beyond disingenuous. It is a lie. Our landowners are the most important entity in our program. Without them we have nothing and it’s our #1 duty to ensure landowners are protected. We have a 50-year history of protecting them and we expect another 50 years of excellent landowner stewardship.
Lie #2 Pending litigation regarding a snowmobile accident that occurred over 3 years ago near former Blackjack (now Snowriver) facility proves the snowmobile trail is too dangerous for Snowriver’s customers.
Truth #2a – The snowmobile accident at the former Blackjack facility didn’t occur on Snowriver property nor our snowmobile trail. The accident occurred on a county road near the former Blackjack facility. The only reason Snowriver is being sued is due to alleged Dram Shop law violations, specifically for illegal overserving the patrons involved in the accident. No one is being sued because of the type of vehicle involved. That is a completely false statement made by the Skinners to divert attention away from their intent to dismantle Midwest Snowmobiling. By attempting to spin their irresponsibility into a snowmobile issue is clearly a direct attempt to demonize and harm the snowmobiling industry.
Truth #2b - During our first in person meeting with Snowriver, Charles and Charlotte Skinner explicitly explained they would refuse service to any motorized tourists as they are not welcomed patrons. To classify ALL Snowmobilers, UTV (ORV) riders, Motorcycle Riders, Off-road trucks, etc., this way is bigoted discrimination and profiling. His rhetoric is toxic, harmful, and unwelcome in our community. What makes our area so amazing is there is room for everyone to play and our communities don’t hold one group supreme over the other.
Lie #3 – Snowriver has alleged trespass and other snowmobile related complaints as additional reasons they declined to allow the trail.
Truth #3 - In the 7 seasons the trail ran through their property there were no complaints – zero - filed with the Sheriff’s office or MDNR.
Lie #4 – Snowriver has repeatedly stated the existence of a snowmobile trail creates additional insurance beyond what the GRTA provides.
Truth #4- The insurance the GRTA provided to Snowriver (and every other land owner) is sufficient. To assert that Snowriver needs the GRTA to provide a $12 million dollar insurance liability policy is a lie. In fact, Snowriver declined an offer from the MDNR to meet with the state’s Asst. Attorney General for a hands-on discussion to explain Michigan’s stout landowner protection laws, to include our recreation immunity law. Instead of meeting with the State Attorney General to clarify the insurance concern, Snowriver willfully ignored our landowner protections for the simple benefit of waging a war against Midwest snowmobiling. Their statement that additional coverage is needed for a snowmobile trail is without fact and lacking any trail litigation precedence. Simply put, this unattainable $12 million insurance policy is an easy way to copout from the discussion.
Lie #5 – Snowriver repeatedly stated they were willing to find a solution to supporting the Trail.
Truth #5 – Snowriver declined to respond to the GRTA’s offer to purchase a small sliver of land around their property that would serve as the trails permanent home. The GRTA was approached by several families willing to donate funds to purchase a tiny piece of snowriver’s property to permanently solve the solve the alleged liability issue. If insurance and liability truly was the issue and you truly wanted to help, why wouldn’t you sell a piece of land to solve the concern?
Given the misinformation, refusal to accept commonsense solutions, and their toxic rhetoric toward motorized tourists we believe Snowriver’s efforts are to dismantle a competing wintertime economy at the cost of our local communities solely for the better posturing of their business. As they develop their property, we foresee demands brought to local governments to provide them with tax incentives (TIF), tax renaissance, or grant funding from the state. If they become the only economic engine in the area, they immediately become “too big to fail” and can then force the communities’ will. Mr. Skinner was served a Minnesota DNR cease and desist order late last month due to construction activities on the Poplar River that he never sought permitting or community input prior to his construction. The evidence is growing that the Skinner’s malice towards motorized tourism is real and the intent to inflict maximum damage on Midwest Snowmobiling is the outcome they are chasing.
Steve Hamilton
President
GRTA 2016-Present
 

pclark

Well-known member
The Club seems to have all their ducks in order. Everything stated seems in line. I don't snowmobile in the UP anymore but this seems like it would be something that would happen in a more populated area like Southern WI, not the Bessemer, MI area where winter sports including snowmobiling are critical to their winter economy.
 

goofy600

Well-known member
I hate to do an about face on this issue because I was vocal about the ski hill not being a good neighbor but new information has me reconsidering. My daughter was a part of all of the meetings and discussions between the ski hill owners and GRTA. She told me that the whole issue revolves around how litigious America has become. The ski hill has deep pockets. They are afraid of a lawsuit because they have deep pockets. Their insurance carrier is requiring them to carry a ridiculous amount of coverage for the snowmobile easement which does not make fiscal sense for them. It all boils down to the ski resort not wanting to pay an extreme insurance premium and worrying about being sued by allowing the trail easement. I'm hearing a reroute is in the works through Ramsay and I hope that works.
So after reading the next post have to ask yourself who is lying I’m betting it’s the new owners. I don’t know the club president Scott personally but being involved and now trail boss of UP thunder riders and our President who has been involved with our club and others for over 15 years do you believe the DNR would allow trails to go through properties without all the proper paperwork and insurance?
 
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