Trayvon Martin

[lenny]

Yes, absolutely!!!!!! Its called self defense. This isn't a movie where just get up and walk away after being beaten.

So, Lenny how many punches would you take before you say enoughs enough?
It only takes one punch then hit your head on way down and your disabled for life or worse.

Bottom line, TM was on top of GZ.


Doesn't matter who started what, who could of walked away, or what some 911 operator said or if he took one punch or twenty.

How many punches would I take before I pulled out a gun and killed the guy? A heck of a lot more than GZ took. GZ is a liar and he story does not add up. He killed someone who cannot tell their story. I already posted an article that shows facts that you guys ignore. Valerie Rao was the medical examiner who saw GZ and said his injuries were insignificant. Now someone who is getting their head beat into the concrete and fearing for their life would sustain an injury consistent of the force being [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]applied but GZ got a bandaid,,,,,serious,,, a bandaid! Look it up for yourself. What do you expect GZ to say after he killed TM? "I didn't feel for my life", "it wasnt that bad." GZ has the perfect opportunity to say all the right things and he has. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In the interview, Hannity asks GZ if he followed TM on foot after police tell GZ to no persue and stay in car. GZ says he didnt follow TM but that he moved in TM's direction but he wasn't following him,,,,lol what a liar. Obviously Hannity saw GZ comments about "moving in TM direction" as a problem because he comes back later in the interview and says he wanted to clarify something GZ said and than GZ under prompting said it differently. Also at the end of the video Hannity asks GZ what he would say to the country or anyone who is concerned about the issue to say what he wants. GZ eyes are fixed on Hannity and not the camera than all a sudden his eyes change to the camera as directed. My point, the interview is rehearsed and under those circumstances you will not get an accurate understanding of what really happened. Hannity is a turd because the way he handled the interview. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Please watch the entire interview and you'll see that it is not a genuine, heartfelt interview but rather produced with a predicted outcome. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IMO, this incident was not racial in any way. TM was in the wrong place at the wrong time with a guy willing to use a gun before his life was actually threatened. Guys who carry a gun everywhere have some sort of ego problem and are more willing to use a gun, not because they have one but because of their mentality. I still believe we all ought to be able to own any gun, as many guns but some people just don't have the sense to be responsible with a deadly weapon. GZ even said TM told him "your gonna die tonight," he also said TM saw his gun during the scuffle and he felt TM was starting to go for it. Now if GZ was being beaten severely head smashed into sidewalk and cannot defend himself, remembers it all in good detail yet unable to protect himself with his 2 arms and 2 legs. How's he able to be fast and alert enough to get the gun out and shoot even while he had been over come during the fight, but now he is capable of drawing his weapon even when he said TM saw the gun and was going for it. It's BS that just lack common sense. What else do you expect GZ to say? The only out for GZ was that there is no direct eye witness so whatever GZ says is what you all believe.

So what we have concluded here is that TM was a walking time bomb, and he was going to kill GZ!

Irresponsible guns owner are giving the gov reasons to be regulated even further. GZ was heading to Target to get stuff when all this happened, he carried a gun everywhere he said, except work. GZ was not cut out for such responsibility of caring a gun even though he was permitted. [/FONT]

 

[russholio]

Guys who carry a gun everywhere have some sort of ego problem and are more willing to use a gun, not because they have one but because of their mentality.

Quite an accusation there, Lenny, and an offensive one at that.

 

[jonesin]

That the FEDERAL GOVT helped pay for and organize the protests against zimmerman shouldn't matter either, who cares......
at least the people are no longer paying attention to fast and furious, bengazi, irs scandle, amnesty for illegal dem voters, national debt, owebamacare........ or any of the minor things going on in the country and are concentrating on this very important issue
yes, I am cold concerning this thug being killed, I am sick of the excuses
I grew up in a single parent poor household where you learned to work instead of stealing, drank powdered milk instead of energy drinks and pop, where you ate whatever was on your plate because you were glad to have it instead of junk food and sugar, where if you got in trouble at school you were in more trouble at home.
Now "people" expect the govt to take care of them and believe they "deserve" what ever they want because its not fair that someone else has it and they dont
sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of always having to be the nice guy and turn the other cheek, I'll say what I feel and believe and let the chips fall where they may, if you ATTACK me, I'll fight back doing whatever it takes and if I am armed and getting beat up one of us may very well end up room temp, its a different world today

 

[nytro_rtx]

you guys convinced me
if gz didn't perform his neighborhood watch duties it would have been different but if tm hadnt snuck between the houses it would have made no difference
if gz hadnt followed tm it it would have been different but if tm had listened to his girlfriend and gone straight home it would have made no difference
if gz had ran from tm it would have been different but if tm hadn't ATTACKED it would have made no difference
if gz had waited to see if tm was just kicking his @#$ or really trying to kill him it would have been different
if gz had waited to see how many times it took his head hitting the pavement before passing out it would have been different
if gz hadn't carried a gun it may have been different all right, the situation may have been reversed and then it would all have been all right
if the chief of police, the arresting officers, the fbi had not all said it was justified and withing the law and that gz was not a racist it would have turned out different but if the poverty pimps jackson, not so sharpton and owebama had not riled up the locals it would have made no difference
if gz hadn't tutored underpriviliged kids, took a black girl to prom it might have been a racist but that doesn't matter but tm wasn't a racist at all, he was just kidding in all his tweets, he really didn't like to fight
I think I understand now

jonesin, I agree, I mistook what you were sayin in your other posts... GZ is a racist bastard and TM is just an innocent lil boy that didn't have the typical chip on his shoulder!!!

 

[lenny]

you guys convinced me
if gz didn't perform his neighborhood watch duties it would have been different but if tm hadnt snuck between the houses it would have made no difference
if gz hadnt followed tm it it would have been different but if tm had listened to his girlfriend and gone straight home it would have made no difference
if gz had ran from tm it would have been different but if tm hadn't ATTACKED it would have made no difference
if gz had waited to see if tm was just kicking his @#$ or really trying to kill him it would have been different
if gz had waited to see how many times it took his head hitting the pavement before passing out it would have been different
if gz hadn't carried a gun it may have been different all right, the situation may have been reversed and then it would all have been all right
if the chief of police, the arresting officers, the fbi had not all said it was justified and withing the law and that gz was not a racist it would have turned out different but if the poverty pimps jackson, not so sharpton and owebama had not riled up the locals it would have made no difference
if gz hadn't tutored underpriviliged kids, took a black girl to prom it might have been a racist but that doesn't matter but tm wasn't a racist at all, he was just kidding in all his tweets, he really didn't like to fight
I think I understand now

your still on that hey? You are the one creating all these "what if." What I don't see you addressing is lack of injury consistent with life threatening injuries on GZ. GZ said all this stuff happened and as a result he felt his life was in danger, do you get it? It's a fact GZ did not sustain serious injury but a broken nose, black eye and scratches where he needed a bandAid, was released and was physically fine. GZ took the initiative to show strong interest in TM and when that happens, possible scuffles arise and it did. Because of GZ actions a guy is dead. GZ initiated the situation, failed to follow police instructions, and failed to use responsible firearm restraint. TM did indeed contribute to the escalation and very well may have actually started the physical assault but after that GZ story does not correlate with the facts produced with medical.

truth is that "what ifs" allows us look at the decisions that were made and see where mistakes were made. We see GZ showing strong interest in TM and maybe justified, that's not the problem. The problem is he did his part as a watch man, he called the police and failed to follow instruction. TM, if did indeed assaulted GZ made a huge mistake that cost hi his life. Does a physical assault justify deadly force, that is the issue at hand here,,,no "what if" about that! Zimmerman did not sustain serious injury which is what was observed by a medical professional. Doc said GZ injuries were insignificant so how does that justify killing a guy?

GZ should have been charged with manslaughter because most of his actions contributed to the escalation of a death. He's is my speculation, GZ couldn't handle a good old fashioned butt whoopin, he was weak minded and physically weak and felt the need to carry a gun instead, therefor when the situation arose he needed his gun where as 95% of the population would have just finished the fight winning or loosing, going home licking his or her wounds. GZ sustaining much more harm would have been worth TM living. No "what if" there bud!

 

[Deleted member 10829]

In the interview, Hannity asks GZ if he followed TM on foot after police tell GZ to no persue and stay in car. GZ says he didnt follow TM but that he moved in TM's direction but he wasn't following him,,,,lol what a liar.

How can you call GZ a liar? No one was there to witness it other than GZ and TM. You seem to want to see the facts a certain way too. The jury got to see all the evidence and made the right call.

 

[lenny]

Quite an accusation there, Lenny, and an offensive one at that.

you know what,, you are correct and I seriously retract that statement and I do apologize. The more I think about that statement the more I see I am way off. I would rather put it this way. I believe there is a huge offset of irresponsible gun carrying people compared to responsible educated gun carrying people. Carrying a gun is a serious matter because it involves the possible death of a person. In the case with GZ and TM I see just that, poor responsibility from GZ.

Again, I am sorry for the stupid statement I made.

 

[lenny]

That the FEDERAL GOVT helped pay for and organize the protests against zimmerman shouldn't matter either, who cares......
at least the people are no longer paying attention to fast and furious, bengazi, irs scandle, amnesty for illegal dem voters, national debt, owebamacare........ or any of the minor things going on in the country and are concentrating on this very important issue
yes, I am cold concerning this thug being killed, I am sick of the excuses
I grew up in a single parent poor household where you learned to work instead of stealing, drank powdered milk instead of energy drinks and pop, where you ate whatever was on your plate because you were glad to have it instead of junk food and sugar, where if you got in trouble at school you were in more trouble at home.
Now "people" expect the govt to take care of them and believe they "deserve" what ever they want because its not fair that someone else has it and they dont
sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of always having to be the nice guy and turn the other cheek, I'll say what I feel and believe and let the chips fall where they may, if you ATTACK me, I'll fight back doing whatever it takes and if I am armed and getting beat up one of us may very well end up room temp, its a different world today

sorry you had it rough growing up but your past still does not justify the loss of life no matter how fed up you are with all the injustice

 

[dcsnomo]

But your post assume the inevitability of the confrontation! The confrontation was not inevitable. It didn't need to happen. Why did it happen? Because Zimmerman got out of the car, against police direction, and followed and perhaps threatened an innocent person in his own neighborhood!

The confrontation did not have to occur, and Zimmerman's actions are why it did occur

Yes, absolutely!!!!!! Its called self defense. This isn't a movie where just get up and walk away after being beaten.

So, Lenny how many punches would you take before you say enoughs enough?
It only takes one punch then hit your head on way down and your disabled for life or worse.

Bottom line, TM was on top of GZ.
Doesn't matter who started what, who could of walked away, or what some 911 operator said or if he took one punch or twenty.

 

[lenny]

How can you call GZ a liar? No one was there to witness it other than GZ and TM. You seem to want to see the facts a certain way too. The jury got to see all the evidence and made the right call.

because his injuries are inconsistent with a man being beaten like he said. Keep in mind, GZ didn't say he was fearful of being beaten to death, he said he WAS being beaten severely, which is a lie, inconsistent with medical. Mark, I am serious when I say he got a band Aid. What else would he say after he killed someone. Killing TM was the easy way out. GZ was probably never in a situation like this before and was scared and didn't know what to do thus he shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Heres my point, even a watch man is subject to a dangerous and it's not for everyone and GZ proved that with the many mistakes that resulted in a death. TM did screw up also by supposedly attacking GZ but again, GZ got a bandaid

 

[dcsnomo]

Oh pfffft! If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and waited for the police none of this would have happened. He was not being threatened, there was no crime being committed.

QED!

you guys convinced me
if gz didn't perform his neighborhood watch duties it would have been different but if tm hadnt snuck between the houses it would have made no difference
if gz hadnt followed tm it it would have been different but if tm had listened to his girlfriend and gone straight home it would have made no difference
if gz had ran from tm it would have been different but if tm hadn't ATTACKED it would have made no difference
if gz had waited to see if tm was just kicking his @#$ or really trying to kill him it would have been different
if gz had waited to see how many times it took his head hitting the pavement before passing out it would have been different
if gz hadn't carried a gun it may have been different all right, the situation may have been reversed and then it would all have been all right
if the chief of police, the arresting officers, the fbi had not all said it was justified and withing the law and that gz was not a racist it would have turned out different but if the poverty pimps jackson, not so sharpton and owebama had not riled up the locals it would have made no difference
if gz hadn't tutored underpriviliged kids, took a black girl to prom it might have been a racist but that doesn't matter but tm wasn't a racist at all, he was just kidding in all his tweets, he really didn't like to fight
I think I understand now

 

[dcsnomo]

Some of you guys keep resorting to TM's character flaws. It is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Whether or not he was a thug has nothing to do with his right to live and move freely within his own neighborhood. I don't know if I would have liked Martin, I may be repulsed by his behavior. But this is not a character test. In the USA I am allowed to move around freely even if you don't like me.

Martin's character has nothing to do with it. He's dead. Why is he dead? Because Zimmerman threatened him and he beat the crap out of Zimmerman. Right? Wrong? I dunno, wasn't there myself.
But a kid who was walking home is dead, killed by a hothead with a loaded weapon who had no reason to be following him.

Martin's character may be an issue in other situations, but on this night, in this neighborhood, he was a kid walking home.

And Zimmerman killed him because the confrontation, which Zimmerman started, went sour.

 

[whitedust]

He's is my speculation, GZ couldn't handle a good old fashioned butt whoopin, he was weak minded and physically weak and felt the need to carry a gun instead, therefor when the situation arose he needed his gun where as 95% of the population would have just finished the fight winning or loosing, going home licking his or her wounds. GZ sustaining much more harm would have been worth TM living. No "what if" there bud!

Now you are agreeing with the jury & understand why there was a not guilty verdict. This by law was an act of Self Defense all the way & GZ had zero self defense skills & probably why he carried a gun in the 1st place. All the what ifs don't have any legal bearing on murder 2 with option for man slaughter it all comes down to TM wailing blows on GZ & GZ using his weapon in his moment of desparation. Now was the entire altercation stupid & unnecessary?.... Yes .....but it it did happen & was tried in a court of law with a not guilty verdict it is a done deal & I get it. Bottom line don't get in fights call the cops stay out of trouble lots of wackos with guns out there & lots of good people with guns out there as well. No one knows the stranger with the a gun so don't take the risk lots of other options.

 

[dcsnomo]

Yup!

Now you are agreeing with the jury & understand why there was a not guilty verdict. This by law was an act of Self Defense all the way & GZ had zero self defense skills & probably why he carried a gun in the 1st place. All the what ifs don't have any legal bearing on murder 2 with option for man slaughter it all comes down to TM wailing blows on GZ & GZ using his weapon in his moment of desparation. Now was the entire altercation stupid & unnecessary?.... Yes .....but it it did happen & was tried in a court of law with a not guilty verdict it is a done deal & I get it. Bottom line don't get in fights call the cops stay out of trouble lots of wackos with guns out there & lots of good people with guns out there as well. No one knows the stranger with the a gun so don't take the risk lots of other options.

 

[jonesin]

Oh pfffft! If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and waited for the police none of this would have happened. He was not being threatened, there was no crime being committed.

QED!

No crime was committed period, as much as you might not like the results and outcome
QED! HA

 

[anonomoose]

Wait....lets look at the big picture.

Zim's neighborhood was being hit by random sackings; this is why Zim was out there doing a neighborhood watch. Did he intend to shoot anyone? If he did, then Mr. Martin would have been shot dead without any injury whatsoever to Mr. Zim.

That didn't happen...so murder is out.

Why didn't Zim stay in his car? Ever call the cops and see how long it takes for them to get there? Maybe quick but if busy this kid could have slipped right away and for all Mr. Zim knew this guy was going to do a quick entry and exit and gone before any law enforcement shows up. So as nearly any neighborhood watch member would do, you follow and stay on the phone to assist the police in this potential intruder's whereabouts. The 911 operator instructed to stay in car, NOT because they didn't want him to keep track of this kid, but as I read it, it was MORE about Mr. Zim's own safety so HE would get mugged or shot.

So now, YOU are on a watch group and YOU are going out after dark to keep an eye on the neighborhood. You going to carry a pig sticker, or are you going to use something more equalizing? You could stick someone a dozen times and still die yourself if THEY carry a gun. Actually, Mr. Martin himself was lucky that this kid had not already acquired a gun, or the table would have turned and this headline would have made back page news and simply fled the scene undetected.

Now it is entirely plausible that Mr. Zim had no intention of shooting this guy when he was doing his watch and keeping an eye on what this punk was doing. Nothing wrong with that...then the confrontation happened. The kid miss judged the extent of this guys ability to defend....and it cost him his life.

It is very easy to lay this off on Mr. Zim...had he stayed in his car as the 911 operator suggested, and had this taken place a few months later, it probably would have been Mr. Zim who was victim of a shooting from Mr. Martin who THEN had a gun to prop up his potential aggressive behavior which he apparently exhibited several times before this chapter started.

If Mr. Zim had a pig sticker probably he would have gotten stuck with it by Mr. Martin who was far more physically fit.

If you think that Mr. Zim had no reason to be out there in the first place then you have never lived in an area where burglaries happen several times per month. It is exasperating and frustrating at the least and usually it is NOT on the high list of law enforcement to keep a close eye out because they are often spread too thin to do it for you and probably have other domestic issues to respond to. So waiting for the long arm of the law, often means that the burglaries occur go unresolved and only end when the thug happens to get stopped for something completely unrelated and get caught that way. These guys usually don't tend to wait around for the cops to show up.

While Mr. Martin could have just been a victim of circumstances, the overwhelming fact is that he stopped to confront rather than continue on and flee if he was chased. He stood his ground so to speak and that cost him his life. Kids do dumb things and often miss calculate what they can and can not do. It was a mistake and there is no doubt in my mind at all, that Mr. Martin regrets the chapter too. He will live with this for the rest of his life. I can't imagine how he will cope, and now added to the issue is a whole populous ready to take him or his family "out" for a "hate" crime. There are no winners here.

 

[jccams]

I believe there is a huge offset of irresponsible gun carrying people compared to responsible educated guy carrying people. Carrying a gun is a serious matter because it involves the possible death of a person. In the case with GZ and TM I see just that, poor responsibility from GZ.

Normally Lenny you make some very points but IMO not this time. How many CPL holders are irresponsible? Do you hear of this kind of shooting all the time involving irresponsible CPL holders? The shootings I hear of all the time involve people carrying illegally and usually using stolen weapons. You have nothing to draw on that validates this statement other than your belief. Seems to me that at least 6 people who heard all the evidence don't believe GZ used "poor responsibility". As an educated and responsible CPL holder your statement still offends me even after the revision.

 

[dcsnomo]

No, but a kid is dead.
Kinda means something to me

No crime was committed period, as much as you might not like the results and outcome
QED! HA

 

[whitedust]

To me it is unfortuate but over maybe a TM wrongful death civil suit brought to GZ maybe not lots of risk with that in FL also probably not winable. Nothing there for the Feds they can win either IMO. Really a shame GZ was overcharged with a crime that that could not be backed by evidence. All the police work demoed self defense this was not a winable case for murder 2 or manslaughter but the court went forward anyway. A lesser charge of assault & battery may have resulted in a guilty verdict but we will never know.

 

[lenny]

Normally Lenny you make some very points but IMO not this time. How many CPL holders are irresponsible? Do you hear of this kind of shooting all the time involving irresponsible CPL holders? The shootings I hear of all the time involve people carrying illegally and usually using stolen weapons. You have nothing to draw on that validates this statement other than your belief. Seems to me that at least 6 people who heard all the evidence don't believe GZ used "poor responsibility". As an educated and responsible CPL holder your statement still offends me even after the revision.

your offended by my belief?,,,,,Are you sure you don't want to revise your word "offend" ?

I make no apologies for my belief on any issue. I did apologize by categorizing all gun carrying people as ego maniacs which was wrong of me and I mean that but for me to offend you by thinking that more than less CPL holders should not be carrying, I stand firm on than. Why would you care what I think to the point you are offended by what I believe?