We entered the modern era in 2003 with performance 4s sleds via the RX1 by Yamaha. I got on board in 2008 with a non current 2007 Yamaha Apex Attak GT just DONE with 2s engine burn downs. Now we are in the 11th year of performance 4s sled line ups & most OEMs are on board with several models what do you like about your 4s sled?
What Do You Like About Your 4s Sled?
- Thread starter whitedust
- Start date
For me it's the reduced routine maintenance needed, I still tip the hood before and after rides (old 2s habbit I guess) really no need to, just gas and go.
Ride a 2006 FST Switch, took awhile to get use to the additional weight, mainly the hard steering effort compared to the 2s machines, need to work on that sometime, maybe needs aftermarket skis or spindles.
Ride a 2006 FST Switch, took awhile to get use to the additional weight, mainly the hard steering effort compared to the 2s machines, need to work on that sometime, maybe needs aftermarket skis or spindles.
Bergstom triple points shims & ski savers stopped darting & steering not that heavy on my Attak but do understand why Yamie went to (EPS) power steeering. I used to check fluids often too now only pop side panel every 1000 miles to check chain grease, oil level & adjust chain also check track. Everything else on gauges like a car so just gas & go with no worries.
craze1cars
New member
Lack of stench and smoke is high on my likes. Never needing to buy or carry or fill oil except for once a year oil change at my leisure on a warm spring day. and MOSTLY I like the fact that pistons are no longer a maintenance item, nor a ticking time-bomb.
My 1998 Formula Z 670, which I kept way too long, burned down twice, it simply needed pistons every 2K to 3K miles like clockwork, regardless of watching plugs closely and keeping carbs clean and properly jetted. After the second time I gave up on it and sold it for a new Yamaha Attak. Good sled, but heavy. So heavy I sunk it through ice, literally (and no, I do NOT blame the weight LOL! fluke accident but brrrrrrr!). So it was totalled after one season. Seeking lighter weight than it provided, I went back to a 2008 Switchback 2 stroke 700 CFI. It was fine, and trouble free for 3 seasons, but at about mile 4,000, it burned thru a piston. Which reminded me why I went to 4 stroke the first time. Blissfully I had a FOUR YEAR warranty on that sled due to snow-check, so Poo fixed it free, and I immediately sold it. So then BACK to 4 stroke by buying a new one-model-year-old 2010 1200 Gade, which I currently run and really like. I may learn slow, but I have now OFFICIALLY determined that I will never run a 2 stroke as a primary trail riding sled again. As far as I'm concerned, 2 stroke motors belong in mountain sleds only...and they do have their place out there in the gnarly stuff and I'll never consider bringing my fat 4 stroke out to the big hills...
Last season my mom's 500SS Ski-Doo burned up a piston after 3,900 miles of being driven by a little old lady. She traded it in for a 4 stroke ACE. My bro's Switchback 600 CFI burned up a piston at about 7K miles (which I admit was a pretty good run). But he's now buying a 4 stroke 1200 like mine.
See a family pattern here? We're basically tired of wearing out our tow ropes due to piston problems. Therefore, as the pistons melt, we're switching to 4 strokes...
xsledder
Active member
Not worrying about oil. Don't have to clean power valves every season. No 2s smoke in the garage will working on them. Doesn't smell 2s while riding (all of my sleds are 4s except for a '86 Indy 400 I'm planning to restore). And the best reason, my enclosed trailer is clear after loading and unloading them (there isn't that plume of smoke coming out of the trailer).
craze1cars :good point I forgot about the following thing....I too was the 1st of the group to buy a 4s all of us were riding doo 800s 2s & after my frozen crank & flaking rings they were all running scared as they neared my miles for engine blow up miles. Bud #1 bought used 2006 Rage luved the sled ...others started looking no longer dismissed 4s. The clean air you breath was surprising I never knew it until riding trails with all 4s now you smell a 2s you are pulling on before you see them funny how that 2s smell lingers.
harvest1121
Well-known member
It was my first year riding a Nytro and will not look at a 2 stroke again. IT does have a few things have to get the exhaust donuts replaced with 3200 miles on it but can wait till the summer. You do not stink anymore but you can really smell other 2 strokes which really is not all bad. I did have a Skidoo 800 xp with 7500 miles and was a great sled. Looks like I have 2 more years on the nytro till I replace it. I did average almost 18 mpg on a 705 mile ride in 2 and half days.
Quiet, no smell on the riding gear, zero maintenance except for oil & filter change once a year, engine braking in the corners, and regular octane gas with good mileage.
StreetnSnow
New member
For mountain riding or primarily off trail use I'd go back to a 2s in a heartbeat, but otherwise I don't feel there is a better trail sled on the market than the recent Yami offerings. I'm on my 3rd Apex after having a 700 Poo & 900 AC not tolerate miles very well.
At the end of the day power in the Apex is on par with the 800s currently out, reliability is better by a wide margin, and for that matter, so is fuel economy. Yes, they are heavy, and it sux to get 'em stuck. Yes they need exhaust donuts every 4k or so and some people have a hard time with hyfax life, but aside from that, I've put substantial miles on all 3 without any issues worse than a bogey wheel or sticky fuel pump relay.
I haven't put any miles on the Doo 1200 yet, but I'd like to. I'm also anxious to try the new Viper. I'm guessing both are great sleds...
At the end of the day power in the Apex is on par with the 800s currently out, reliability is better by a wide margin, and for that matter, so is fuel economy. Yes, they are heavy, and it sux to get 'em stuck. Yes they need exhaust donuts every 4k or so and some people have a hard time with hyfax life, but aside from that, I've put substantial miles on all 3 without any issues worse than a bogey wheel or sticky fuel pump relay.
I haven't put any miles on the Doo 1200 yet, but I'd like to. I'm also anxious to try the new Viper. I'm guessing both are great sleds...
craze1cars
New member
LOL...the smell of other sleds thing is funny...
I've been riding since the 1970's. Used to sorta LOVE the smell of a 2 stroke plume in the morning, or in the garage. Still doesn't bother me much. BUT....
I'm still part of the fast rider group, and often leading, and we are regularly catching up to slower groups on the trails. And indeed I can ALWAYS smell 'em before I come around a bend and see that I've caught the last one in the bunch! And then, as a respectful rider, I will NEVER try to pass them until they see me, come to a stop, wave me by, or whatever...I'm not "that guy!" who roosts them and surprises them on their left. RUDE! So anyway, I respectfully follow slowly and wait my turn, no matter how long I'm trapped there. And my eyes will literally start to water a little bit, and if it goes on for 15 minutes I'll get a minor headache...and when I finally get the opportunity to safely pass I give them a friendly wave and the light headache clears rather quickly. I just can't BELIEVE how bad they stink and how it affects me now, and yet I rode within packs of them for 3 decades and it never bothered me at all...but after switching to the other side?....wow.
Even when set of oncoming sleds goes on by, there's about 30 seconds of stench they leave behind that I gotta rip thru before I get back into clean air again.
And when I am 'surprised' to catch up to a group BEFORE I actually smelled them, I usually see the telltale real quick...that rear-exit muffler. Then I know I just got "surprised" because I caught up to a group of stench-free Yami's! It's really funny...
Most anyone on a 4 stroke knows what I'm talking about...and I am REALLY grateful to see them catching on as strong as they are. And with Doo 4S sleds, and even some Cats catching on more and more each year, that tell-tale rear exit muffler isn't always there behind the stench-free groups anymore. And the new YamiCat lineup of sleds will bring even more 4 stroke options to the table and out on the trails. SWEET! I just hope Polaris gets with the program soon and joins a good thing...they can't cling to that single 750 blowdryer motor for ANOTHER decade, can they?
One thing's for sure...the more people I can convince to trade up to a 4 stroke of ANY brand, the better the trails will smell...
10 years ago, if someone told me I'd be riding a 4 stroke sled someday, I'd have laughed right at 'em. NO WAY. How things change...
I've been riding since the 1970's. Used to sorta LOVE the smell of a 2 stroke plume in the morning, or in the garage. Still doesn't bother me much. BUT....
I'm still part of the fast rider group, and often leading, and we are regularly catching up to slower groups on the trails. And indeed I can ALWAYS smell 'em before I come around a bend and see that I've caught the last one in the bunch! And then, as a respectful rider, I will NEVER try to pass them until they see me, come to a stop, wave me by, or whatever...I'm not "that guy!" who roosts them and surprises them on their left. RUDE! So anyway, I respectfully follow slowly and wait my turn, no matter how long I'm trapped there. And my eyes will literally start to water a little bit, and if it goes on for 15 minutes I'll get a minor headache...and when I finally get the opportunity to safely pass I give them a friendly wave and the light headache clears rather quickly. I just can't BELIEVE how bad they stink and how it affects me now, and yet I rode within packs of them for 3 decades and it never bothered me at all...but after switching to the other side?....wow.
Even when set of oncoming sleds goes on by, there's about 30 seconds of stench they leave behind that I gotta rip thru before I get back into clean air again.
And when I am 'surprised' to catch up to a group BEFORE I actually smelled them, I usually see the telltale real quick...that rear-exit muffler. Then I know I just got "surprised" because I caught up to a group of stench-free Yami's! It's really funny...
Most anyone on a 4 stroke knows what I'm talking about...and I am REALLY grateful to see them catching on as strong as they are. And with Doo 4S sleds, and even some Cats catching on more and more each year, that tell-tale rear exit muffler isn't always there behind the stench-free groups anymore. And the new YamiCat lineup of sleds will bring even more 4 stroke options to the table and out on the trails. SWEET! I just hope Polaris gets with the program soon and joins a good thing...they can't cling to that single 750 blowdryer motor for ANOTHER decade, can they?
One thing's for sure...the more people I can convince to trade up to a 4 stroke of ANY brand, the better the trails will smell...
10 years ago, if someone told me I'd be riding a 4 stroke sled someday, I'd have laughed right at 'em. NO WAY. How things change...
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3rd Apex? How many miles did you put on before you sold them?
I had 06 Attak sold after 13,000 miles and now ride 10 Apex LTX with just under 10,000 miles, looking to hang on to this one a few more years...
Just_Ride
Although I NEVER had a bit of trouble with the case reed Suzuki triples (16500+ and 23,400+) Wife first swithched to the '07 Z1 Jag. She loves the sled and did let me ride it once. I said if they ever turboed it, I was in. So got mine in '09 and love the set up for trail but wanted more hp. So also got a full modded Turbo EXT "to play" (spare sled).
Wife and I have always had the big triples (last two with 136" tracks), so never really noticed the weight. I do miss the triple pipe sound and my open exhaust turbo generates LESS noise then the stock triple pipes. Easier to use the Communicators. I DO NOT MISS THE SMELL!! We both bought new gear, boots to helmets! As mentioned, no smoke bank in the trailer, no stink in tow vehicle, or house. Sleds stay much cleaner. I could eat a sandwich off the engine compartments. No more scrubbing the side with the exhaust. Hers has about 10,000, mine about 9000 and the "spare" about 1600. Just put 900 miles on the Jag and EXT and never opened the engine hood, just the side panel for the belt/clutch inspection.
Picture taken about two weeks ago, I think I washed the sled about 4 years ago.
Wife and I have always had the big triples (last two with 136" tracks), so never really noticed the weight. I do miss the triple pipe sound and my open exhaust turbo generates LESS noise then the stock triple pipes. Easier to use the Communicators. I DO NOT MISS THE SMELL!! We both bought new gear, boots to helmets! As mentioned, no smoke bank in the trailer, no stink in tow vehicle, or house. Sleds stay much cleaner. I could eat a sandwich off the engine compartments. No more scrubbing the side with the exhaust. Hers has about 10,000, mine about 9000 and the "spare" about 1600. Just put 900 miles on the Jag and EXT and never opened the engine hood, just the side panel for the belt/clutch inspection.
Picture taken about two weeks ago, I think I washed the sled about 4 years ago.
Attachments
Not to get off topic, but what did those two go through??
anonomoose
New member
That's a great sled with great ride and suspension that shames the Yamaha sleds...but...the spindles were all wrong on that new design sled. While the sled was hard to steer and would improve with a good set of spindles and skis...once you do those things there isn't a better riding, suspensioned sled out there even today. It is as good as it gets.
anonomoose
New member
It is funny how some people will fight and fight over what they believe in only to find out if they become objective about it, the 4 stroke usually wins them over.
No smoke to smell up the trailer (remember the smoke so thick you couldn't see the other sled in the same trailer?) If there is no smoke to smell you up like a garage mechanic...you don't walk around smelling like you just got out of house fire. Imagine how much better the environment is because more folks are using 4 stroke sleds than ever.
Gas mileage is usually way better unless you stick to a 600 or less. Hands down the 4 stroke motors deliver better gas mileage.
But the really biggest reason to switch is reliability....4 stroke engines just keep going...primarily because they have all same attributes of a car or truck engine. No matter how hard the manufacturers try, they can't clean the engine exhaust up enough on 2 strokes and they can't cut down on the oil consumption enough and the reliability of the 2 stroke has become worse than ever. Run a batch of bad gas...burn it down. Suck some air in somewhere you shouldn't be getting it..burn down the engine. While some folks seem to get 20k out of a oil burner....most seem to go 5k and then need a bunch of work done. Notice how few 4 stroke owners complain about bad engines?
What this means is that right when you need your sled...it is spent...waiting for a new rod or piston or crank....how important is having a sled running when YOU want it to be there?
2 strokes are nice and light in relation to 4 strokes but skill will off-set 75% of that once you learn the needs of a 4 stroke especially off trail. All sleds are too heavy and they all will get stuck and they will all break your back at that point....so what's the big deal about the extra weight? When they build a 2 stroke that weighs 250 pounds....they will have something but 385 lbs compared to 460 lbs...just doesn't make them bricks on skis...as most seem to think. Add 40 pounds of gear and 185 pounds of flabby rider and the weight difference becomes less and less important...even out in the mountains with deep fluff, 4 strokes are grabbing up long time 2 stroke diehards in favor of huge torq gains and reliability.
I have had every make and model and I have had nothing but 4 stroke since 2004. I will never go back to carbed motor, stick shift over automatic, or a typewriter over a computer. I have moved on...and if someone gave me a 2 stroke, I would have to sell it....just doesn't make sense to own one anymore.
No smoke to smell up the trailer (remember the smoke so thick you couldn't see the other sled in the same trailer?) If there is no smoke to smell you up like a garage mechanic...you don't walk around smelling like you just got out of house fire. Imagine how much better the environment is because more folks are using 4 stroke sleds than ever.
Gas mileage is usually way better unless you stick to a 600 or less. Hands down the 4 stroke motors deliver better gas mileage.
But the really biggest reason to switch is reliability....4 stroke engines just keep going...primarily because they have all same attributes of a car or truck engine. No matter how hard the manufacturers try, they can't clean the engine exhaust up enough on 2 strokes and they can't cut down on the oil consumption enough and the reliability of the 2 stroke has become worse than ever. Run a batch of bad gas...burn it down. Suck some air in somewhere you shouldn't be getting it..burn down the engine. While some folks seem to get 20k out of a oil burner....most seem to go 5k and then need a bunch of work done. Notice how few 4 stroke owners complain about bad engines?
What this means is that right when you need your sled...it is spent...waiting for a new rod or piston or crank....how important is having a sled running when YOU want it to be there?
2 strokes are nice and light in relation to 4 strokes but skill will off-set 75% of that once you learn the needs of a 4 stroke especially off trail. All sleds are too heavy and they all will get stuck and they will all break your back at that point....so what's the big deal about the extra weight? When they build a 2 stroke that weighs 250 pounds....they will have something but 385 lbs compared to 460 lbs...just doesn't make them bricks on skis...as most seem to think. Add 40 pounds of gear and 185 pounds of flabby rider and the weight difference becomes less and less important...even out in the mountains with deep fluff, 4 strokes are grabbing up long time 2 stroke diehards in favor of huge torq gains and reliability.
I have had every make and model and I have had nothing but 4 stroke since 2004. I will never go back to carbed motor, stick shift over automatic, or a typewriter over a computer. I have moved on...and if someone gave me a 2 stroke, I would have to sell it....just doesn't make sense to own one anymore.