Just read my September Snow Tech mag and they were very frank about the future of 2021 snowmobile divisions and the decisions Textron and Yamaha must make. It is clear only a few inner circles of upper management at Textron and Yamaha really know what will happen. Dealers have no idea neither do OEM sales reps so when it finally gets down to us it’s just a guessing game. It’s clear Textron is downsizing dealers and TRF sled mfg and marketing and 2020 snowmobile product line is very limited. Imo some huge decisions are forth coming this winter season for the 2021 Yamaha and AC product lines. I highly doubt the relationship will be as is now. I hate to lose either OEM but just not room for dual product lines.
What’s Happening With AC & Yamaha?
- Thread starter whitedust
- Start date
SledTL
Active member
Just read that there is a lawsuit between Textron and AC about stock price when they did the merger. Caused 1.8 billion in devaluation I think was the number. Basically claimed they were worth much more than they were getting traded at. I find it hard to believe that nobody has spoken out, especially after the layoffs. Can't imagine its an extremely enjoyable place to go work at everyday with turmoil constantly on the horizon. I also would be lying if I said running a discretionary/recreational business is easy.
Ya it’s got to be horrible for TRF employees waiting for the other boot to drop and it will. TRF probably praying that Yamaha will buy the snowmobile division. The worst that can happen is both Textron and Yamaha drop out of snowmobiles and seems very possible as neither company seems to care to make the necessary investment to survive and move on into the future. I’m very surprised neither company will commit to be in the snow business. I don’t think Yamaha and Textron are playing chicken it’s seems more likely that Textron doesn’t care to sell or invest in snow products perfectly willing to close down which will also close down Yamaha snow division. Very puzzling to me?????
whitedust, I agree 200% with " the worst that can happen" scenario you posted, and I am too surprised of the lack of talk about the situation, and also the funny rumors and assumptions people are so quick to make based solely on dislike for the brand. The industry needs competition, that's what drives advances and perfection of product and technology, not to mention the loss of 2 long time brands would not be good for the industry as a whole, am interested and curious on how this will play out.
I think like any business its a numbers game,
when sales are down, snow is NOT falling in places it used to, like it used to
the costs to keep making new things, has to be hard on the sled company's
add in the popularity of side by sides and atv's over sleds
due to again weather and being able to use more often
I'm honestly surprises we have the sleds we do
the hay days of sled ownership has long gone and don;t ever see it coming back
costs, too high, and season too short
us die hards are aging
and the budgets ain't there for a lot of new folks to get in to take the place or add to the numbers of sled owners!
add in crazy/silly law suits by un happy customers that have issue's, be them legit or not
sleds are a gamble on the business end and all off road vehicles as well, less and less places to ride, less folks that want to to turn a tool to fix there own things, or ability to even do so on things as advanced as there getting!
I hope sleds are built by all 4 again, but I also see why they won't be in the future!
when sales are down, snow is NOT falling in places it used to, like it used to
the costs to keep making new things, has to be hard on the sled company's
add in the popularity of side by sides and atv's over sleds
due to again weather and being able to use more often
I'm honestly surprises we have the sleds we do
the hay days of sled ownership has long gone and don;t ever see it coming back
costs, too high, and season too short
us die hards are aging
and the budgets ain't there for a lot of new folks to get in to take the place or add to the numbers of sled owners!
add in crazy/silly law suits by un happy customers that have issue's, be them legit or not
sleds are a gamble on the business end and all off road vehicles as well, less and less places to ride, less folks that want to to turn a tool to fix there own things, or ability to even do so on things as advanced as there getting!
I hope sleds are built by all 4 again, but I also see why they won't be in the future!
Wong
Member
Textron is trying to correct years and probably decades of mismanagement at Arctic Cat. This problem will not be fixed overnight and it will not happen without major changes from the top of Arctic Cat to the bottom. Multiple bad CEO's in a row, Suzuki held stock buy back and overproduction had made it impossible for Arctic Cat to recover without new ownership and major changes. People keep worrying that everything is changing at Cat. It has to change, because business as usual will not work for Cat to recover. Like it or not, mega dealers and internet sales are the future of our sport. The small mom and pop dealers are not the future of Cat or any brand. I look at the changes taking place at Cat as steps towards repairing years and years of mismanagement. If you want business as usual, you are condemning Cat and probably Yamaha to go the way of Sears, Kmart an Radio Shack.
CrossfireLOW
Member
Regarding AC and Suzuki...
Was Suzuki building engines for Arctic Cat and basically being paid in shares of Arctic Cat? When Suzuki finally said they didn't want more stock but cash instead, Cat had no choice but to start building engines in house because they didn't have the cash on hand pay Suzuki. Then Suzuki wanting to turn their accumulated shares into cash threaten to dump them on the open market that would have crashed the stock price, pretty much forced arctic cat to borrow the money to buyout Suzuki directly.
Or was this all in my head?
Was Suzuki building engines for Arctic Cat and basically being paid in shares of Arctic Cat? When Suzuki finally said they didn't want more stock but cash instead, Cat had no choice but to start building engines in house because they didn't have the cash on hand pay Suzuki. Then Suzuki wanting to turn their accumulated shares into cash threaten to dump them on the open market that would have crashed the stock price, pretty much forced arctic cat to borrow the money to buyout Suzuki directly.
Or was this all in my head?
In my humble opinion A/C got a red carpet out of business by their neighbor Polaris.
We all know ATV/UTV sales is where sales are at, not sleds.
Currently, Poo has new 2019 base 570's for $5,200 and 450's for $4,395. This equals better product at a lower price.
Poo UTV's are also dirt cheap as they roll out new redesigns which A/C is way outclassed in quality, price and appeal.
All brands are suffering from brand loyalty departing as people die. New customers that come into the market are not loyal and move between brands.
Probably a few young fellers on here too.
Bear
No doubt things went bad at AC and the buck stops at corporate officers and the board. The problem I have with the current conditions is what is left that hasn’t already been tried and failed. Yamaha has some bright people too but buying an old factory and tooling isn’t going to be easy to change the business model to a profitable enterprise. Seems to me AC is doomed since Textron doesn’t seem to care. Yamaha could stay in snowmobiles but need to mfg somewhere in the USA. Yamaha has the engine technology but needs to tool up a chassis and that’s expensive. I’m very disappointed the OEM agreement didn’t produce a leading edge snowmobile and engine or even incorporate eps in the pro cross. I don’t see both ACand Yamaha surviving a Textron reorganization....maybe.... but doubtful.
Pete, seems you jumped ship just in time. Dont know what the future holds, but the demise of Cat will NOT go over well. Another winter like this last one sure wont hurt ANYTHING. Look forward to more riding time with you, and your NEW dogsled. Cause you know, Cats always chase the dogs.
SledTL
Active member
Saw that as well. Claimed most people put an aftermarket one on anyways which is a poor excuse to hide the real reason. Hay days will be interesting to say the least.
WorkHardPlayHrd
Active member
Here's a polling question for everyone. How many of you have put aftermarket exhaust on your sled, or have stayed stock?
I've always been stock. Since I ride Arctic Cat thier excuse kind of pisses me off!
I've always been stock. Since I ride Arctic Cat thier excuse kind of pisses me off!
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Yep I sat down with Kip and 2020s were ready to release nothing to replace the Apex xtx choices were SW or Viper nothing in between to replace Apex 150 to 165 hp. Doo Enduro 900t filled that gap perfectly for me and rear suspension rode very well.
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ICT Sledder
Active member
With the rate AC dealers are dropping, people aren't going to have a choice if they want even semi-local sales, service, and parts on what they're buying. I was talking to a pretty decent-sized powersports dealer in Iowa who is dropping Cat, and he said after they sever ties in a few months there will be just two AC sled dealers in all of Iowa. I'm not from there, but there's enough sledders in IA to make that a bit of an eye-opening reality.
G
G
Guest
That is a bs excuse. Ontario prohibits anything other than a stock exhaust system. MN, Mich and Wisc are not too far behind.
Come to think of it....the Mods could probably cut and paste a thread from 2009 and it would appear to be current. The more things change, the more they stay the same.