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Without all the fancy terms thrown at me, what oil should I use?
- Thread starter indy_500
- Start date
aesynthetics
New member
STD, Obviously, you haven't seen the 409,000 mile oil change interval mack truck engine. 25k for Amsoil with Ea Filters is nothing special, and no I'm not insane. I have sent normal everyday vehicle oil samples in for oil analysis at 25,000 miles and the oil was suitable for continued use. The filter has to be changed at 25,000 mile intervals and usually not the oil. You might not know it, but Amsoil is actually formulated to suspend contaminants so they go through the filter and are caught. I have farmers that have put 1600 hrs on HDDQT and have oil analysis results saying the oil is good for continued use, they can't believe it.
Getting back to the 2 Stroke subject... Go to Amsoil.com and check out the logging company that tested Saber in half of the chain saws and the teardown results.
Getting back to the 2 Stroke subject... Go to Amsoil.com and check out the logging company that tested Saber in half of the chain saws and the teardown results.
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SuperTurboDiesel
New member
How bout the walmart 2-stroke oil? Is that any good?
Probably in your Poulan chain saw - LOL.
aesynthetics
New member
AMSOIL Saber Professional pre-mix two cycle oil is designed with AMSOIL synthetic base oils and premium additives. Saber is designed for lean mix ratios and has excellent lubricity and cleanliness to control friction and help prevent wear, plug fouling, and ring sticking.
Saber Professional is recommended to be mixed at a 100:1 ratio even when the application calls for 50:1. The quality base oils resist consumption and evaporation better than conventional oils. The combination of premium base oils and additvives, AMSOIL Saber Professional delivers maximum protection and performance in small engine applications, even at 100:1.
AMSOIL 2-cycle oils have been providing performance and protection since 1973. There are still some people who struggle with using an oil at a 100:1 ratio.AMSOIL synthetic provided a logging company with six Stihl MS 440 chainsaws to demonstrate the superiority of this oil. Three were used at 50:1 with conventional 2 cycle oil and the other three used the AMSOIL Saber. There were all used as normal for a total of 200 hours, which is a severe service application.
The engines were then tore down to determine how they performed. The chainsaws using the Saber Professional had fewer deposits, less wear and were generally cleaner. The chainsaws using the Saber also used an average of 8% less fuel.
AMSOIL Saber Professional is an excellent replacement 2 cycle oil to be used safely at a 100:1 ratio where 50:1 is recommended by the manufacturer. It provides excellent protection while saving money by using less oil and fuel.
When they did their lab testing, they ran engines at 200:1 just to see if the oil would protect at that ratio. Take it for what you will.
Saber Professional is recommended to be mixed at a 100:1 ratio even when the application calls for 50:1. The quality base oils resist consumption and evaporation better than conventional oils. The combination of premium base oils and additvives, AMSOIL Saber Professional delivers maximum protection and performance in small engine applications, even at 100:1.
AMSOIL 2-cycle oils have been providing performance and protection since 1973. There are still some people who struggle with using an oil at a 100:1 ratio.AMSOIL synthetic provided a logging company with six Stihl MS 440 chainsaws to demonstrate the superiority of this oil. Three were used at 50:1 with conventional 2 cycle oil and the other three used the AMSOIL Saber. There were all used as normal for a total of 200 hours, which is a severe service application.
The engines were then tore down to determine how they performed. The chainsaws using the Saber Professional had fewer deposits, less wear and were generally cleaner. The chainsaws using the Saber also used an average of 8% less fuel.
AMSOIL Saber Professional is an excellent replacement 2 cycle oil to be used safely at a 100:1 ratio where 50:1 is recommended by the manufacturer. It provides excellent protection while saving money by using less oil and fuel.
When they did their lab testing, they ran engines at 200:1 just to see if the oil would protect at that ratio. Take it for what you will.
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SuperTurboDiesel
New member
STD, Obviously, you haven't seen the 409,000 mile oil change interval mack truck engine. 25k for Amsoil with Ea Filters is nothing special, and no I'm not insane. I have sent normal everyday vehicle oil samples in for oil analysis at 25,000 miles and the oil was suitable for continued use. The filter has to be changed at 25,000 mile intervals and usually not the oil. You might not know it, but Amsoil is actually formulated to suspend contaminants so they go through the filter and are caught. I have farmers that have put 1600 hrs on HDDQT and have oil analysis results saying the oil is good for continued use, they can't believe it.
Getting back to the 2 Stroke subject... Go to Amsoil.com and check out the logging company that tested Sabre in half of the chain saws and the teardown results.
Huh, didn't know we were talking about "over the road" semi-trucks.
BTW, if it were such a great idea, then the majority of the trucking industry would have already embraced this "great" idea and be just changing their filters and simply adding make up oil instead of doing regular services on their fleets. I used to work in a diesel truck fleet. Rarely did a truck go past 15,000 miles without servicing. I do know we were running some with synthetics up to 30,000 miles on the longer haul rigs.
I personally don't care what oil you run, or what stories you want to believe. I don't believe everything I read, that's for sure.
If you would have READ the Amsoil recommendations, they DO NOT recommend the use of the super-lean "Sabre" oil in any 2-stroke PREMIX snowmobile engines. Additionally, nobody cares about what you want to run in your chain saws. We're talking about sleds here.
Anyhow, as we've all established in these numerous threads, you go right ahead and do what you want, and the rest of us will do what we want.
I'm pretty sure that this thread was originally started pertaining to and referring to talking predominately about 2-stroke variable exhaust valve snowmobile engines, and what oils work best for them. Both in keeping the exhaust valves clean at a cost-effective price as well. Pretty sure that we've established that.
Try to stay on topic would ya?
jim_golding
New member
S.T.D.
I currently run S&S in all of my sleds one of which has power valves so I do believe that it is good oil for two strokes. However I am interested in the tests and data you mention in your earlier posts. Do you have any analysis which shows the properties of the oil compared to other oils? I think everyone would find it interesting however it may add to more discussion since some of the parameters/properites and their results will be different between the oils.
I find this discussion very interesting since I am a engineer responsible for 4 EMD diesels rated at 3500HP at a nuclear power plant which involves reviewing oil analysis and fuel oil analysis to ensure the diesels will be able to start and load with 10 seconds of a start signal.
I currently run S&S in all of my sleds one of which has power valves so I do believe that it is good oil for two strokes. However I am interested in the tests and data you mention in your earlier posts. Do you have any analysis which shows the properties of the oil compared to other oils? I think everyone would find it interesting however it may add to more discussion since some of the parameters/properites and their results will be different between the oils.
I find this discussion very interesting since I am a engineer responsible for 4 EMD diesels rated at 3500HP at a nuclear power plant which involves reviewing oil analysis and fuel oil analysis to ensure the diesels will be able to start and load with 10 seconds of a start signal.
SuperTurboDiesel
New member
Dear Jim_Golding,
Citgo Sea & Snow MSDS Sheets here:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/621612001.pdf
Citgo Supergard Sea & Snow Synthetic-Blend 2-stroke oil Product Information Sheets here:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/10008.pdf
Citgo also makes Mystik brand oils.
Mystik JT-4 Product Information Sheets here:
http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20075.pdf
Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 0W-40 MSDS Sheets here:
http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/663081002.pdf
Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic 2-cycle oil Product Information Sheet here:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ait.aspx
Amsoil Interceptor MSDS Sheets here:
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ait.pdf
By the way, if you want a 100% TRUE apples to apples, synthetic base stock to synthetic base stock oil comparision, COMPARE the Mystik JT-4 to Amsoil Interceptor. They would be considered near "equals", and I do admit, the Interceptor does appear to be a better oil.
But again, back to price. Note that there is a mere $2.00/gallon difference between the Mystik and Amsoil synthetic (assuming that you are an Amsoil "preferred customer", and have paid the yearly membership "fee".) Otherwise there is a much more substancial $11.41 difference per gallon. (UGH.)
Mystik JT-4 Synthetic = $24.99/gallon
Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic = $26.99/gallon (plus $20/year preferred fee already pre-paid), otherwise it's $36.40/gallon
Keep in mind, the Citgo S&S is a synthetic-blend, and costs $11.79/gallon.
As for any direct physical comparison analysis, no I do not have access to any of that.
More statistical data information you may want is available via the various websites, similar to what the links above will provide. Additional data or testing may be acquired by writing the various companies and inquiring, however due to proprietary information, you may not be able to acquire certain data that you may be seeking.
Look, despite the "numbers", the primary reason (in simplest form) that I'm a firm believer on running the Citgo S&S is because it performs just as well in 2-stroke snowmobiles in the real world, as the "premium synthetics" out there do, but for a fraction of the cost.
Anyone who has run it, knows it to be a truth.
The fact is, we aren't running tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or multi-million dollar machines here. Is Amsoil (Interceptor for example) a better oil than S & S? Well, in some ways, yes, and take note that I have never disputed that arguement.
However, what people need to realize and accept is that we are talking about snowmobiles. Powersports toys, that on average, have a life expectancy similar to an automobile. The facts are that the majority of snowmobiles are "disposed of" or at minimum, "retired from regular use" within a 10 years timeframe, and 10,000 miles on average. Granted, in some areas of the snow belt they see many more miles, but in other areas, it's not uncommon to find sleds with far, far fewer miles logged on them.
We all want to enjoy our snowmobiles for as long as we can. We want them to run as reliably as possible, and we want to fuel them as cheaply as we can. Until the day comes, when we've decided that we are "sick of them" and we want something "new & improved". After all, it's the American way!
Therefore, sometimes "the best practical oil to do the job" may not actually be "the very best scientific oil".
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Sea & Snow - they way to go, for average Joe!
Citgo Sea & Snow MSDS Sheets here:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/621612001.pdf
Citgo Supergard Sea & Snow Synthetic-Blend 2-stroke oil Product Information Sheets here:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/10008.pdf
Citgo also makes Mystik brand oils.
Mystik JT-4 Product Information Sheets here:
http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20075.pdf
Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 0W-40 MSDS Sheets here:
http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/663081002.pdf
Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic 2-cycle oil Product Information Sheet here:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ait.aspx
Amsoil Interceptor MSDS Sheets here:
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ait.pdf
By the way, if you want a 100% TRUE apples to apples, synthetic base stock to synthetic base stock oil comparision, COMPARE the Mystik JT-4 to Amsoil Interceptor. They would be considered near "equals", and I do admit, the Interceptor does appear to be a better oil.
But again, back to price. Note that there is a mere $2.00/gallon difference between the Mystik and Amsoil synthetic (assuming that you are an Amsoil "preferred customer", and have paid the yearly membership "fee".) Otherwise there is a much more substancial $11.41 difference per gallon. (UGH.)
Mystik JT-4 Synthetic = $24.99/gallon
Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic = $26.99/gallon (plus $20/year preferred fee already pre-paid), otherwise it's $36.40/gallon
Keep in mind, the Citgo S&S is a synthetic-blend, and costs $11.79/gallon.
As for any direct physical comparison analysis, no I do not have access to any of that.
More statistical data information you may want is available via the various websites, similar to what the links above will provide. Additional data or testing may be acquired by writing the various companies and inquiring, however due to proprietary information, you may not be able to acquire certain data that you may be seeking.
Look, despite the "numbers", the primary reason (in simplest form) that I'm a firm believer on running the Citgo S&S is because it performs just as well in 2-stroke snowmobiles in the real world, as the "premium synthetics" out there do, but for a fraction of the cost.
Anyone who has run it, knows it to be a truth.
The fact is, we aren't running tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or multi-million dollar machines here. Is Amsoil (Interceptor for example) a better oil than S & S? Well, in some ways, yes, and take note that I have never disputed that arguement.
However, what people need to realize and accept is that we are talking about snowmobiles. Powersports toys, that on average, have a life expectancy similar to an automobile. The facts are that the majority of snowmobiles are "disposed of" or at minimum, "retired from regular use" within a 10 years timeframe, and 10,000 miles on average. Granted, in some areas of the snow belt they see many more miles, but in other areas, it's not uncommon to find sleds with far, far fewer miles logged on them.
We all want to enjoy our snowmobiles for as long as we can. We want them to run as reliably as possible, and we want to fuel them as cheaply as we can. Until the day comes, when we've decided that we are "sick of them" and we want something "new & improved". After all, it's the American way!
Therefore, sometimes "the best practical oil to do the job" may not actually be "the very best scientific oil".
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Sea & Snow - they way to go, for average Joe!
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