Couldn't agree more! Alas, I think we're moving farther and farther away from that, but that's a topic for another thread.
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Almost 50 Snowmobile Citations Given During Derby Weekend
- Thread starter miaferominka
- Start date
Couldn't agree more! Alas, I think we're moving farther and farther away from that, but that's a topic for another thread.
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PANKRATZ
Guest
You forgot to say thank you to me for my tax money.
Hey Banks,Whats your e-mail Greg
Sorry for the rant also RUSSHOLIO.And your right he doesn't have a clue.Bottom line is we don't need more enforcement that is goverment controled.Just need more self control in which we instill in our children as was instilled by our parents.
I said I wasn't coming back, but I had to. I think this is all something we can believe in. Nicely put.
Ok...REVman out.
Listen, I've tried to remain civil in this exchange, but it appears the intellectual level is not sufficient to deal with the topic being addressed.
IDIOT......sorry, I slipped, nobody has a problem with the 2 people that got the tickets, they have a problem with stopping the OTHER 58, BECAUSE THEY WERE WITH THE TWO, that showed probable cause for search. Get it now?
In any book, this is violation of civil liberties as indicated (above) by the fourth amendment of our very own constitution. But it's the DNR (damn near russia), so I guess they don't apply or answer to anyone other than the other idiot Jim Doyle.
Possibly before you start preaching, you can get a better handle on the concept of logic, and constitutional rights?
Wow fusion, seems you do have some pent up anger issues.
Perhaps since you have such a clear concept of logic and your constitutional rights, you can explain then how the DNR conducts these checkpoints illegally and give us all the basis for a defense as well as the means to sue the state of WI.
The reality is, it's much more complicated than your perceived violation of illegal search and seizure.....
And to complicate the matter in ER further, it's more than likely that the majority of the 60 sledders voluntarily stopped...blindly following some leader that stopped. If you voluntarily submit to a search, then you may have forfeited your rights. We probably won't know in the case of the 60 sledders in ER because you weren't there to proclaim your constitutional rights were being violated....LOL I'm sure that will get you far with the DNR...
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PANKRATZ
Guest
Wow fusion, seems you do have some pent up anger issues.
Perhaps since you have such a clear concept of logic and your constitutional rights, you can explain then how the DNR conducts these checkpoints illegally and give us all the basis for a defense as well as the means to sue the state of WI.
The reality is, it's much more complicated than your perceived violation of illegal search and seizure.....
And to complicate the matter in ER further, it's more than likely that the majority of the 60 sledders voluntarily stopped...blindly following some leader that stopped. If you voluntarily submit to a search, then you may have forfeited your rights. We probably won't know in the case of the 60 sledders in ER because you weren't there to proclaim your constitutional rights were being violated....LOL I'm sure that will get you far with the DNR...
JPSTED
620 thousand hunters are not happy with the dnr,They can't even count.Now they are working their magic with the 99% law abiding snowmobile folks.Reality is people are fed up with them as they are part of our wonderfull goverment.I hope you will continue to stick up for the dnr that way I know you will be in the minority.How many snowmobiles registered in Wisconsin + How many hunting and fishing permits brought a year will be the total of citizens that are not happy about the way they run things.Yes,We need the dnr in wisconsin but not in this sport.Should be controled by our local and state police only.Don't need my taxes going for double coverage.
Read my above post JPSTED and you will know I'm not a bad person but sick of goverment control.State of the union live tonight on tv I hope you enjoy!GOD LOVES YOU
Hey Banks,Whats your e-mail Greg
you have a pm
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PANKRATZ
Guest
JPSTED
620 thousand hunters are not happy with the dnr,They can't even count.Now they are working their magic with the 99% law abiding snowmobile folks.Reality is people are fed up with them as they are part of our wonderfull goverment.I hope you will continue to stick up for the dnr that way I know you will be in the minority.How many snowmobiles registered in Wisconsin + How many hunting and fishing permits brought a year will be the total of citizens that are not happy about the way they run things.Yes,We need the dnr in wisconsin but not in this sport.Should be controled by our local and state police only.Don't need my taxes going for double coverage.
Read my above post JPSTED and you will know I'm not a bad person but sick of goverment control.State of the union live tonight on tv I hope you enjoy!GOD LOVES YOU
Pankratz, I don't believe anywhere in my postings I supported the DNR on any hunting issues and I don't disagree that many people are fed up with them. Further, I never indicated to any extent what their degree of involvement in the sport of snowmobiling should be nor did i express my unwaivering support....so let's please separate the issues, entirely different. Frankly, we disagree on this topic because you view it as a political matter and I view it as purely a snowmobiling issue...perhaps then I am wrong.
But I hope you and God can forgive me because I believe that registration violations and intoxicated riders should be taken off the trail...the DNR is one means/tool in which to accomplish that. And perhaps it's become unfortunate that we cannot do a good enough job policing ourselves and peers and have to have the DNR out doing that for us. Each year WI records a large number of snowmobile deaths(drawing public attention)...and yeah, I've heard all the arguments...small percentage when compared to number of registered sleds, automobile accidents, etc. But we in fact have a HUGE problem in the sport when 90% of the deaths annually can be attributed to alcohol. So until we as a group realize and admit this problem and hold ourselves and other riders accountable and take real efforts to clean this up, we will always come under attack, lose trails, privileges, etc.
What many fail to realize is that as in politics, as in life, as in snowmobiling...to maintain our privilege to ride and maintain the sport we're going to have to negotiate and make concessions. In exchange for certain items we take certain items...I'm more than willing to provide some tool for the WI DNR to take drunks and other violaters off the trail in exchange for less public and political scrutiny. I'm not saying the checkpoint is a perfect tool, but its only one I've seen available to the DNR. And you know why I don't mind them doing this currently....because I know that I have no cause for concern if I run across a checkpoint and I have never known or heard of any rider who was unjustly cited.
And I'll add this, for what it's worth. I can't speak for Wisconsin, since I've only ridden there once and that was 12 years ago, so I can't say with any certainty whether I saw any DNR on the trails or not. But in Michigan, I have been checked ONCE in 17 years of riding -- in the western UP, by DNR (or sheriff, don't remember which) who were checking sleds as they came to a stop sign. Checked our permits, registration, and we were on our way. My law enforcement sightings on the trail probably average once or twice per year. I can tell you my idiot encounters on the trails are way more than that.
Other than that one "random check" in the UP, I have never been stopped by ANY law enforcement -- DNR, sheriff, state police, or local police -- when I wasn't doing something wrong.
Other than that one "random check" in the UP, I have never been stopped by ANY law enforcement -- DNR, sheriff, state police, or local police -- when I wasn't doing something wrong.
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PANKRATZ
Guest
Pankratz, I don't believe anywhere in my postings I supported the DNR on any hunting issues and I don't disagree that many people are fed up with them. Further, I never indicated to any extent what their degree of involvement in the sport of snowmobiling should be nor did i express my unwaivering support....so let's please separate the issues, entirely different. Frankly, we disagree on this topic because you view it as a political matter and I view it as purely a snowmobiling issue...perhaps then I am wrong.
But I hope you and God can forgive me because I believe that registration violations and intoxicated riders should be taken off the trail...the DNR is one means/tool in which to accomplish that. And perhaps it's become unfortunate that we cannot do a good enough job policing ourselves and peers and have to have the DNR out doing that for us. Each year WI records a large number of snowmobile deaths(drawing public attention)...and yeah, I've heard all the arguments...small percentage when compared to number of registered sleds, automobile accidents, etc. But we in fact have a HUGE problem in the sport when 90% of the deaths annually can be attributed to alcohol. So until we as a group realize and admit this problem and hold ourselves and other riders accountable and take real efforts to clean this up, we will always come under attack, lose trails, privileges, etc.
What many fail to realize is that as in politics, as in life, as in snowmobiling...to maintain our privilege to ride and maintain the sport we're going to have to negotiate and make concessions. In exchange for certain items we take certain items...I'm more than willing to provide some tool for the WI DNR to take drunks and other violaters off the trail in exchange for less public and political scrutiny. I'm not saying the checkpoint is a perfect tool, but its only one I've seen available to the DNR. And you know why I don't mind them doing this currently....because I know that I have no cause for concern if I run across a checkpoint and I have never known or heard of any rider who was unjustly cited.
JPSTED,You just said you are in favor of giving the dnr more tools to use.Well as I said before they are controlled by our goverment so no they are in the same topic.When you give dnr(goverment)more tools that means more laws and the more freedom you will lose in the end.How about the new law that goes in effect for smoking in public places or any work places this July.I agree with public places but work?I do smoke and now they tell me I can't smoke in my own foundry in which I own.So lets make some more laws(my azzz)This is not off topic just a reference to see what happens when goverment is given control.The next law will be no serving alcohol to anyone driving a snowmobile or vehicle how do you think those establishments up north would like that.I personally think Al Gore and tree huggers will be the biggest issue this next century NOT ALCOHOL.You can not change the few that can't control themselves.Here is another reference(How about the war going on,do you think you can change somebody that was born and raised to think if you kill a westerner that you will be risen right to God!!!NOT.So the moral of the story is the more laws the less freedom for all that do right but in the end you will have the same amount of trouble makers.Gotta Go.
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PANKRATZ
Guest
wooopsJPSTED,You just said you are in favor of giving the dnr more tools to use.Well as I said before they are controlled by our goverment so no they are in the same topic.When you give dnr(goverment)more tools that means more laws and the more freedom you will lose in the end.How about the new law that goes in effect for smoking in public places or any work places this July.I agree with public places but work?I do smoke and now they tell me I can't smoke in my own foundry in which I own.So lets make some more laws(my azzz)This is not off topic just a reference to see what happens when goverment is given control.The next law will be no serving alcohol to anyone driving a snowmobile or vehicle how do you think those establishments up north would like that.I personally think Al Gore and tree huggers will be the biggest issue this next century NOT ALCOHOL.You can not change the few that can't control themselves.Here is another reference(How about the war going on,do you think you can change somebody that was born and raised to think if you kill a westerner that you will be risen right to God!!!NOT.So the moral of the story is the more laws the less freedom for all that do right but in the end you will have the same amount of trouble makers.Gotta Go.
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before,
but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A...
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D!
No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A...
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D!
No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
JPSTED,You just said you are in favor of giving the dnr more tools to use.
I clearly said..."I'm more than willing to provide some tool for the WI DNR to take drunks and other violaters off the trail in exchange for less public and political scrutiny."
I didn't say more....sounds like as far as your concerned they should have zero.
And now you've somehow turned this into my arguing that alcohol is the snowmobiling demise for the next century....lol
To everyone else...sorry for the lengthy responses...i'm done on this one...I promise!
P
PANKRATZ
Guest
The bottom line is that they shouldn't have pulled all 60 snowmobiles over in one crack.Pass by slowly and check stickers and thats it.If you dont't have sticker so then you should get pulled off too the side and let others get on with their trip.And I'll add this, for what it's worth. I can't speak for Wisconsin, since I've only ridden there once and that was 12 years ago, so I can't say with any certainty whether I saw any DNR on the trails or not. But in Michigan, I have been checked ONCE in 17 years of riding -- in the western UP, by DNR (or sheriff, don't remember which) who were checking sleds as they came to a stop sign. Checked our permits, registration, and we were on our way. My law enforcement sightings on the trail probably average once or twice per year. I can tell you my idiot encounters on the trails are way more than that.
Other than that one "random check" in the UP, I have never been stopped by ANY law enforcement -- DNR, sheriff, state police, or local police -- when I wasn't doing something wrong.
P
PANKRATZ
Guest
I clearly said..."I'm more than willing to provide some tool for the WI DNR to take drunks and other violaters off the trail in exchange for less public and political scrutiny."
I didn't say more....sounds like as far as your concerned they should have zero.
And now you've somehow turned this into my arguing that alcohol is the snowmobiling demise for the next century....lol
To everyone else...sorry for the lengthy responses...i'm done on this one...I promise!
We were just having some good conversation.Zero really wouldn't bother me but that would be a new law once againJEEEEEEZ
P
PANKRATZ
Guest
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before,
but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A...
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D!
No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
You rule BANKS Can't wait to see what the big guy has to say tonight!!!!!!
The bottom line is that they shouldn't have pulled all 60 snowmobiles over in one crack.Pass by slowly and check stickers and thats it.If you dont't have sticker so then you should get pulled off too the side and let others get on with their trip.
Fair enough.
F
fusion
Guest
The bottom line is that they shouldn't have pulled all 60 snowmobiles over in one crack.Pass by slowly and check stickers and thats it.If you dont't have sticker so then you should get pulled off too the side and let others get on with their trip.
He was having GREAT difficulty understanding this concept. Not sure why, but my guess is, some intellectual dysfunction or deficiency. No other conclusion to reach. Unless of course he's a liberal, socialist - these people are all for over-regulation and more laws. My guess is, he thinks he's a conservative, but as is the case with most Wisconsinites, he's really not. Look no further than the government these people have elected in this state, the Doyles, Feingolds and Kohls, these people don't have a conservative bone in their bodies. Yet when you start discussing the issues they scream liberal by their words/actions, yet argue they're really conservatives. Talk about confused.
When they start routinely creating legal check-points to check every single registration, have you blow into a breath-alyzer, and sit on the trails with radar guns, I'll sell my sleds and find something else exciting to do. We don't need more regulation. Just like they tell you on the roads - watch out for the other guy.