10-13 MI Snowmobile Fatalities report

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lenny

Guest
in reality trails may be no safer but this is where we will need at least 4-5 years of compiled data to get the specifics. It may be a positive for less signs seeing the increased amount of time the trails have been open compared to the last few but again inconclusive. At the minimum this year it hasn't proven to be a failure and some say they have slowed down. I'm just glad we can agree that it didn't produce horrific results. Often a bias will not allow people to accept even the slightest bit of error. I've never said it has been a success on the contrary I have said we will need time to see how it all pans out. I have strongly argued it has not produced increased death,,but the year ain't over now is it! I seriously can see how less signs will force rider to step up and be more aware because they have no choice, they don't desire to die but some live to push the envelope for the excitement and now possibly they may be forced to change their riding style to some degree, at least that is the intent of less signage. It does work for me just fine as I need to ride safe for others and myself!
 
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600ProX2

New member
Firecatguy said:
Lenny did you read my response wrong? I answerd his question and I said let me quote
"anyone trying say thay have facts has there head up their azz" mezz did not give any facts so that was not directed twords him it is to you tho, as you keep asking me for facts to prove my point and I have asked you several times (and yes you have not given any) Facts on your point I do understand what you are trying to acomplish (i have also said that over and over) all I can say is Rusholio hit it on the head as how i feel about this and if my low miles this year keeps me out this then be it but my exsperience of many states and many many area of riding does if you ask me and I belive you (andd msa) have gone at this the wrong way...sorry but you are falling on deaf ears now as I work day in and day out dealing with people who make bad decision and people who have surcome to the roadways here in my state and for me to ever come up with the idea less sign is better will never happen and Lenny my guess untill you look into the eys of a dead person laying on a trail you will not see it my way.....


ONE DEATH DUE TO THIS IS TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

If we have to make rules for everytime I hear this, well I would just give up.
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polarisrider1

New member
My question is why doesn't any of the western states have curve signs???? Do you know that you can carry a gun concealed or not out here without a permit. Not to get off topic.
 
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snoluver1

Active member
polarisrider1 said:
My question is why doesn't any of the western states have curve signs???? Do you know that you can carry a gun concealed or not out here without a permit. Not to get off topic.
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A lot of us that have ridden out west know damn well that you just don't push it out there, because if you do, you will probably die! It seems a simple concept, but the bottom line is: NOBODY has ANY statistical facts to back up EITHER position at this point in time. Arguing back and forth is such a mute point it's really just comical at this point!! LOL
 
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Woodtic

Active member
Thanks for all of the great info.once you weed through the BS,there is some good info!Paul
 
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vx700xtc

Member
WOW, I just had a genius thought.... If we remove most of the signs on the highways across America,, people will slow down and we will all be much safer. AND there won't be so much clutter along the road sides.
 
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lenny

Guest
vx700xtc said:
WOW, I just had a genius thought.... If we remove most of the signs on the highways across America,, people will slow down and we will all be much safer. AND there won't be so much clutter along the road sides.
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that's a rather poor example. MI did not get rid of most of their signs. Here is what they removed:


  • Bridge Ahead
  • Chevron
  • Deer Crossing
  • Drift Area
  • Narrow Bridge
  • Narrow Trail
  • Trail Crossing
  • Truck Traffic
  • Two Way Trail
  • Winding Trail
here is what they added:


  • Combination Horizontal Alignment/Intersection (left and right)
    (These bright yellow signs with directional arrows may be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment less than 90 degrees where an intersection occurs within or immediately adjacent to a turn)
  • "Private Drives Ahead"
    (These signs may be used to warn trail users where driveways cross a snowmobile trail)
  • One-Direction Large Arrow (left and right)
    (These signs will be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment of 90 degrees or more. One-direction Large Arrow signs are 10 x 20 inches, yellow reflective signs with a black arrow and border)
  • "Next (number of) Miles" - supplemental plaque
    (These signs may be installed below "Private Drives Ahead" signs to indicate how many miles long the stretch of trail with private drives runs)
  • "Trail Closed to Wheeled Motor Vehicles Ahead"
    (When used, these signs should be placed on state or federal land prior to the point where a designated state snowmobile trail enters private property where wheeled motorized vehicle use is prohibited)

So they got rid of 10 and only 2 of the 10 most people feel were useful. They added 5 and maybe 2 of the new 5 are useful IMO
 
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russholio

Well-known member
lenny said:
So they got rid of 10 and only 2 of the 10 most people feel were useful. They added 5 and maybe 2 of the new 5 are useful IMO
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I agree with this. But I'm confused about the listing of "Private Drives Ahead" as being new. I've seen them for years.
 
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polarisrider1

New member
The new signage is way better. Think about it, the signs that say winding trail, two way trail, narrow trail, deer crossing, drift area, and steep hill are just clutter added to the obvious. If a person can't figure this out they should not be on a sled. Idiots can't follow stay on trail signs and those are important for so many reasons.
 
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russholio

Well-known member
polarisrider1 said:
The new signage is way better. Think about it, the signs that say winding trail, two way trail, narrow trail, deer crossing, drift area, and steep hill are just clutter added to the obvious. If a person can't figure this out they should not be on a sled. Idiots can't follow stay on trail signs and those are important for so many reasons.
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Agreed as well. But despite that, there ARE signs that are not just useless clutter.
 
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russholio

Well-known member
lenny said:
I've only seen stop signs at the drives which is fine for me.
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I've seen those, too. But I see more "Private Drive" signs than stop signs. I guess if you've only seen stop signs and I've seen both, it all goes back to that consistency issue.
 
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nytro_rtx

Active member
polarisrider1 said:
The new signage is way better. Think about it, the signs that say winding trail, two way trail, narrow trail, deer crossing, drift area, and steep hill are just clutter added to the obvious. If a person can't figure this out they should not be on a sled. Idiots can't follow stay on trail signs and those are important for so many reasons.
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Ad "Wet Area" signs on that list also, they are useless and are every where.
 
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lenny

Guest
russholio said:
I've seen those, too. But I see more "Private Drive" signs than stop signs. I guess if you've only seen stop signs and I've seen both, it all goes back to that consistency issue.
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remember, that's one of the main improvements the DNR is trying to deal with,,,consistency!
 
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lenny

Guest
russholio said:
Agreed as well. But despite that, there ARE signs that are not just useless clutter.
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no doubt we need signs, withiout all the signs we would have serious safety problems. Signs are good in general and much needed.
 
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russholio

Well-known member
lenny said:
remember, that's one of the main improvements the DNR is trying to deal with,,,consistency!
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I do remember that's one of the improvements they're trying to make. So far, I've seen more steps backward than improvements (with regards to consistency). But....I know it's early in the game and Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a couple of seasons.
 
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lenny

Guest
russholio said:
I do remember that's one of the improvements they're trying to make. So far, I've seen more steps backward than improvements (with regards to consistency). But....I know it's early in the game and Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a couple of seasons.
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what exactly are you seeing and how many areas are you referring to?
 
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