This is by no means scientific . Sledders have been missing corners and on the wrong side of the trail before the signs were removed and unfortunately after. My buddy's just came from the UP. Day one,Sidnaw to Munising,day two Munising to Sidnaw. Day three, Sidnaw to Copper Harbor and back. There was no mention of missing corners or getting lost. I can't tell you how many different trails they were on. My kids haven't missed any corners either,though they have only ridden 300 Mi or so. The only signs the DNR are going to add,are speed limit signs. After those are put up,then who do we blame for our mishaps ??? Sorry for your loss Joann.
10-13 MI Snowmobile Fatalities report
- Thread starter 2TrakR
- Start date
I can't hazard a guess as to if they would or wouldn't. I'm betting most people would hope they don't. But if they do, unless the current fiscal climate changes drastically, it would be a symbolic move only, with little to no effect, since there would be no funds for enforcement. Heck, there isn't enough now.
Firecatguy
New member
there is a speed limit on mich trails....
True.....and I'm betting that like most other trail infractions, it's rarely enforced....but I think Woodtic was referring to a posted speed limit.
chords
Active member
Yes partially true. On a few select sections of a couple of trails and on the Kawkawlin River in Bay City area. But otherwise NO.
Firecatguy
New member
the DNR was in force one year out on gogebic and we asked them at the hoop and hollar if the trails have a speed limit and DNR guy told us all standingthere that the closest road to any given trail is the speed limit on a trail he also elaborated to say that means 55 or slower......now this was beat to death back then in a thread that is one reason I asked the officer now if you telling me that a man of uniform lied to us I might tend to belive you but again this was the guy with the ticket book in his pocket.....and before you blast me for this!!!did not care if there was a spped limit nor do I now....just passing along the info that was given to me....
And also, I believe, whatever the posted speed limit is where a road is used as the trail.
From the Michigan DNR's snowmobiling web site:
"A person shall not operate a snowmobile at a rate of speed greater than is reasonable for existing conditions." While this is obviously not very specific, it is a speed limit.
Firecatguy
New member
Not good enough,I'd like proof please.
I can only give ya the facts man....lol
Firecatguy
New member
ya I hear ya I said same thing till Josh at the hoop added that it was the closet posted road......
again I just passing the info on dont care who or if you belive it just passing on the info i got...sheeesh
mezz
Well-known member
Firecat, you are real good at avoiding "the question", to refresh your selective memory, "How many miles of UP trail have you ridden this year?" Moreover, how many trail miles in Michigan have you ridden this year?" Curious minds want to know...A direct question deserves a direct answer, does it not? Perhaps we should dance around the fire with smoke & mirrors which appears to be what you like? " Answer up. Whether you could "care less to ride em!!" or not, was not the question. If my assumption is correct, you have not ridden a single mile here in this state much less the UP since this signage change, so, how can you be sooo opinionated about a subject you have no first hand experience with? IMO, your rant is just that, a rant. With all due repect, give it up, you are making yourself look,.... well, lets say,,,not so good.-Mezz
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polarisrider1
New member
Pat, I know you like to ride out west. My question is, "what's your thoughts about zero curve signs out there." I did 45 miles on trails out here today and did not see any signs other than intersection trail number signs. Don't say you don't ride trails out here. (That's not an answer). Seen tons of trail traffic too.
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lenny
Guest
Fcat. In the beginning I was making reference to the people here who posted their riding experience and the result was a majority posted positive will little to no issues (11 people posted no problems, 2 believed it was a good move and liked less sign and only 4 had issues with the policy.) Now that is a fact, it's also useful info we can build upon, not conclusive as I have said from the beginning twice now.
I have also posted the fatality reports, post# 120, 137. 22 dead so far, 7 failed to negotiate a curve, 3 on designated trail and 4 off designated trail (f roads etc,,)
We are talking about trail signage here, that you claim is responsible for deaths.
Do not forget that I previously posted in 2012 there were 16 deaths, 5 failed to negotiate a curve, 2 on trail and 3 offtrail
I also posted in 2011 there were 13 deaths, 3 failed to negotiate a curve, 2 on trail and 1 offtrail.
What have you said that even slightly resembles yourself doing any work whatsoever in research, statistics, etc,,,, I'll tell you, a big fat "0"
So why not step out of the debate because you opinion has been stated about 105 times now and it's all the same we've heard it enough. I challenge you right now Pat to step it up and offer some insight form a informational viewpoint. Can you do it please?
Remember, you say it is a stupid plan and people have died form it as a result: from your own mouth, Didn't take long for me to find it, post #5
less signage and fatal curve crashes go up....yeap there the study once again they put it right on our backs......just put the signs back.....wait I read on here all the time that the accidents are from Hand signals!!!
post 23: um well ok enlighten us Lenny how the **** do you hit a tree in a staright away? or does common sense tell you that less sinage and rise in TREE hits is kinda a close paralle to less sign = more crashes into trees as you miss the turn?
post 28 is a complete joke, you have the knowledge to claim a death as a fact when the authorities have not?
post 95: I have seen why they are dead and most the time it was missing something like a turn or drinking....I do not get why you would take this kind time and money to fight signs yet nothing to ennforce the real problems like drinking!
post 116: 1 death due to bad judgement and NO SIGN is one too many
post 140: Lenny my guess untill you look into the eys of a dead person laying on a trail you will not see it my way.....
post 150 is a good picture of how you operate: Woodtick asks you to prove MI has a speed limit and you say "I can only give ya the facts man....lol" You can't take a minute and look up a simple answer?
I had been pressing you to back up your statement with fact for 7 pages now and you will not do it. Your response is to say, you back up your facts! So you wont do it and try and derail the point and point at me while I am asking you to back it up? Can you try an stop saying the same thing in 106 different ways?
I have also posted the fatality reports, post# 120, 137. 22 dead so far, 7 failed to negotiate a curve, 3 on designated trail and 4 off designated trail (f roads etc,,)
We are talking about trail signage here, that you claim is responsible for deaths.
Do not forget that I previously posted in 2012 there were 16 deaths, 5 failed to negotiate a curve, 2 on trail and 3 offtrail
I also posted in 2011 there were 13 deaths, 3 failed to negotiate a curve, 2 on trail and 1 offtrail.
What have you said that even slightly resembles yourself doing any work whatsoever in research, statistics, etc,,,, I'll tell you, a big fat "0"
So why not step out of the debate because you opinion has been stated about 105 times now and it's all the same we've heard it enough. I challenge you right now Pat to step it up and offer some insight form a informational viewpoint. Can you do it please?
Remember, you say it is a stupid plan and people have died form it as a result: from your own mouth, Didn't take long for me to find it, post #5
less signage and fatal curve crashes go up....yeap there the study once again they put it right on our backs......just put the signs back.....wait I read on here all the time that the accidents are from Hand signals!!!
post 23: um well ok enlighten us Lenny how the **** do you hit a tree in a staright away? or does common sense tell you that less sinage and rise in TREE hits is kinda a close paralle to less sign = more crashes into trees as you miss the turn?
post 28 is a complete joke, you have the knowledge to claim a death as a fact when the authorities have not?
post 95: I have seen why they are dead and most the time it was missing something like a turn or drinking....I do not get why you would take this kind time and money to fight signs yet nothing to ennforce the real problems like drinking!
post 116: 1 death due to bad judgement and NO SIGN is one too many
post 140: Lenny my guess untill you look into the eys of a dead person laying on a trail you will not see it my way.....
post 150 is a good picture of how you operate: Woodtick asks you to prove MI has a speed limit and you say "I can only give ya the facts man....lol" You can't take a minute and look up a simple answer?
I had been pressing you to back up your statement with fact for 7 pages now and you will not do it. Your response is to say, you back up your facts! So you wont do it and try and derail the point and point at me while I am asking you to back it up? Can you try an stop saying the same thing in 106 different ways?
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Firecatguy
New member
all this because I don't agree with you!!!lol
hey Mezz I could give 2 chits less what you think about me
by the way Lenny I have asked you several times where your study is or your facts you looking for out of me? yet you just go and post my comments? facts lenny facts give us facts lenny where the study to show this is a good idea???I have asked you for the same facts that you keep asking me for!!!and I did give an answer for the speedlimit did you not read it??really lenny becuse you implemented this I have to accept it? Lenny for some reason your looking to argue over this...just give us the facts that lead to the removal of the signs? what lead up to this?
one death because of less signage is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!!!
dont bother to comment to me it will not be seen this has turned into a joke!!!this has turned into a joke!!!same people argued over how to get unstuck.....lol
hey Mezz I could give 2 chits less what you think about me
by the way Lenny I have asked you several times where your study is or your facts you looking for out of me? yet you just go and post my comments? facts lenny facts give us facts lenny where the study to show this is a good idea???I have asked you for the same facts that you keep asking me for!!!and I did give an answer for the speedlimit did you not read it??really lenny becuse you implemented this I have to accept it? Lenny for some reason your looking to argue over this...just give us the facts that lead to the removal of the signs? what lead up to this?
one death because of less signage is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!!!
dont bother to comment to me it will not be seen this has turned into a joke!!!this has turned into a joke!!!same people argued over how to get unstuck.....lol
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mjkaliszak
New member
jeepers peepers.... i must have missed it all, if we were all sitting in a cafeteria like in " animal house " right about now I would proclaim " Food Fight ".......
Firecatguy
New member
hey Lenny when you get a sec to climb down off your high horse give Joan a call tell her how that sign did not matter....
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lenny
Guest
one year has nearly went by and you were wrong about the consequences of less signage, the stats show no increase in deaths compared to previous years with more signage. FACT! same info I have been offering. The people have spoken and you are a stubborn goof. Show me how less signs killed people? Oh, you will see this and you will comment! Controversy drives you, not discussion. Remember the death where a guy smashed into a stop sign and died odd of a designated trail? I posted that but no comment from you. How did this death happen. A big fat stop sign as visible as the Goodyear blimp. The poor guy made some mistake and we may never understand this. All your eggs are in the same basket and it's a radical position and you are solely on your own.
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lenny
Guest
I thought you were finished with this, you cant even keep your word? I suggest medication bud! FACT!